‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement[W:25]

[Casca XV]

‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Ahead of Trump's pronouncement, close U.S. allies such as Britain, France and Germany had criticized him and questioned the wisdom of such a move. German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said Tuesday that the pursuit of such policies by the Trump administration is why traditional U.S.-European ties have started to “crumble.”

“We all know the far-reaching impact this move would have,” Gabriel said. “Germany’s position on this issue remains unchanged: A solution to the Jerusalem problem can only be found through direct negotiations between both parties. Everything which worsens the crisis is counterproductive.”

In Russia, the Kremlin also joined the list of nations fearing that such a move will exacerbate tensions between Israel and Palestinians, saying that the situation could worsen as a result. It was one of the few times a Kremlin foreign policy goal has converged with that of most NATO member states.Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said the U.S. plan is “unlawful” and could have “irreversible consequences” in the region.

So, looks like Trump managed to unite the whole damn world against us this time.

I can't think of anything more likely to cause attacks than recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol or Israel.The only group that will happy with this is religious fanatics - including evangelicals around the world and right wing Israelis. I can't think of any group in the US who benefits by this other than the 'end is nigh' crowd pushing for the 3rd temple. What possible reason could he have for making this decision?

Right now I am betting a reversal will come - because this is ridiculous.

A bunch of Europe pissed that President Trump has kicked them off the US tax payer gravy train, or Middle East Muslims who will never be satisfied until Israel is s wiped off the map are not the "whole dam world."

The President just had an Asia trip so successful that CNN had to lie about feeding fish.

When Obama took the same trip they had such little respect that they forced him to exit out the ass end of Air Force One.

Countries that don't rely on US Leftist handouts have more respect for us now than ever.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So if we kill everyone in an area, and wait long enough, we can claim it was our's all along? That plan is sketchy at best bud, even though it seems to be the entire basis of your "historical right".

I guess the people who were wiped out didn't "deserve" their homeland so now it's yours, and anyone who gets in the way is the "bad guy" huh.

"Language, culture and traditions" can be shared anywhere there's even a small group of people. Jews in New York City shared their "language, culture and traditions" for generations. Does that mean that NYC should be annexed by Israel?

No, the one without a real argument is you. You are arguing, in essence, "we wanted the land really badly so we killed everyone living there and it was ours and because we killed everyone living there it's now ours forever and ever and ever".

But the French aren't making territorial land grabs in Belgium, Spain and Germany because "this was part of our "homeland"".

Yes, I can see why bringing up the people whose homeland you declared as your own would be rather inconvenient for you. After all, they were "in the way" right?

There's nothing intelligent in your post that I could even consider replying to. I mean do you understand the meaning of the words "not existing"? Do you understand what it means that the Canaanite tribes don't exist anymore? You want to give them a state in the land? Go ahead and do, they don't exist. What part of that should I repeat for the thousandth time so you would consider understanding?

I get it though. It upsets you that Jews get a homeland. It doesn't upset you that other people have a homeland based on that same right to self-determination but it upsets you that Jews do. You can't really do anything about it can you? So just, I don't know, get over it.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

As I repeatedly stated, you can't not include people in your "detailed armistice" and then suddenly pretend that you care what happens to them. As it was, if the Jordanians were so interested in "wiping out the Jews" they could have done so, rather than merely forcing them to leave. Additionally, Christian holy sites were protected, despite the restrictions on the Christian populace.....so even your own sources clearly show it wasn't as bad as you seem to think.

Did anyone die when they "tore up a sacred cemetery"? Was one hurt? Did the entire city suddenly become "unpure"?

No?

Then, once again, that's not exactly what I would call "horrific treatment". A perfect excuse for a land grab, sure, but not exactly the worst atrocity in the world.

Oh really? And how long do you think anyone was going to listen to the UN on that matter? The rank hypocrisy is pretending that some sort of mini reign of terror was going on in Jerusalem when in reality it was little more than looking for a justification to grab a city they really, really wanted.

There are posters here who are defending North Korea and are doing a better job than you do in standing with evil. "Not exactly the worst atrocity in the world"? What a perfect argument that is. The true hypocrisy is in pretending that the Jordanians were treating the population fairly during their control of East Jerusalem and then going on to claim that Israel liberating that land and returning it to Jewish control was an horrible atrocity and a "land grab" from the Jordanians who obvioulsy have no connection to the land. Hysterical really.

 

[beerftw]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

As I repeatedly stated, you can't not include people in your "detailed armistice" and then suddenly pretend that you care what happens to them. As it was, if the Jordanians were so interested in "wiping out the Jews" they could have done so, rather than merely forcing them to leave. Additionally, Christian holy sites were protected, despite the restrictions on the Christian populace.....so even your own sources clearly show it wasn't as bad as you seem to think.

Did anyone die when they "tore up a sacred cemetery"? Was one hurt? Did the entire city suddenly become "unpure"?

No?

Then, once again, that's not exactly what I would call "horrific treatment". A perfect excuse for a land grab, sure, but not exactly the worst atrocity in the world.

Oh really? And how long do you think anyone was going to listen to the UN on that matter? The rank hypocrisy is pretending that some sort of mini reign of terror was going on in Jerusalem when in reality it was little more than looking for a justification to grab a city they really, really wanted.

So you are supporting the jordanian ethnic cleansing of east jerusalem, and have no issue with the destruction of holy sites to the jewish people in their most holy city? Christian sites were protected has little to do with it, as jewish sites were desecrated , just because christians were not kicked out or their holy sites desecrated does not make it acceptable.

Did anyone die no, but that is not the point, ethnically cleansing an area of people and destroying their holy sites is among the most vile acts of humanity, it is bad no matter where it occurs in the world, and anyone who makes excuses to justify it is just as evil as those who committed it.

It was horrific treatment, despite preserving christian sites they banned new construction of them, destroyed jewish holy sites, kicked the jews out, and kept christians as second class citizens, ontop of that you are still arguing one illegal occupation is ok while the other is wrong. Israel has preserved the holy sites and has allowed all religions in to visit them, and has granted rights to palestinians of jerusalem even if they do not have israeli citizenship, a far cry from jordanian oppression.


On the last it was a reign of terror for everyone there who was not muslim, it was bad that jordan blocked the holiest sites of 3 major religions from the world, committed ethnic cleansing and destruction of holy sites and artifacts, some believed to go back to the iron or bronze age.

 

[SayMyName]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Goodness, Chicken Littles. If you mean this is going to be the end of the world, I better finish my coffee, or in some of your cases, tea and crumpets, and then have a good dump on the crapper so that I go out feeling positive before its all over.

 

[Grand Mal]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

It's a shame to see world leaders be so weak and avoid doing the right thing in standing by Israel and rightfully acknowledging the capital of the country.

Why do you think sucking up to Israel should be a priority everywhere else in the world?
For that matter, why do you think other world leaders should be tossing the peace process into the crapper for the sake of making a meaningless point?
Finally, why do you think Trump picked this particular moment to turn the US foreign policy 180 degrees and trigger violence that might well go beyond the mob stuff that's been happening in Israel?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

The sheer unanimity of this paints a blindingly obvious picture of who is on the wrong side of history here. Trump has really outdone himself. No surprise.

 

[John Prewett]

https://i.imgur.com/6JKcmo1.png

Ezekiel 38-39. Sooner the better

Trump's move hastens the coming of Ezekiel 38-39

We are rapidly approaching coming to pass of The Great Jihadist-trap.
And Bear-trap. Nearly all will see [TV + internet] this event come to pass.
Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12-14, Joel 3, Psalms 83, Isaiah 17
describe a great Jihadist [Islamic terrorist] trap.
How so ?
Zechariah 12-14 reveals at first it will appear Israel is defeated.
At that time all previously hesitant Jihadist
will flood into Israel intending rape and pillage.
Shortly after that ALL the invaders will be annihilated by Jesus/angels.
Thus the “waterloo” of the Islamic Satanic delusion.

Since lead invading nation is from “remote north” (Ezekiel 38:6, 39:2)
of Israel, this nation must be Russia. Thus the invasion will also result
in the “waterloo” of Russian dream of world ruler-ship.

“ I am going to make Jerusalem a cup of reeling before all the surrounding nations.
And when there is a siege against Judah, it is also against Jerusalem.
And it will be on that day that I will set Jerusalem as a weighty stone to all the peoples.
All who carry it will surely cut themselves, and all the nations
of the land will be gathered against it.” Zechariah 12:2-3

SLINGING SEEDS
https://i.imgur.com/tbDiCv0.png
https://i.imgur.com/64tjGpf.png

 

[joG]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Israel is doing everything in it's power to prevent Palestine from existing.

Not at all. Otherwise Palestiniens would be gone.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Not at all. Otherwise Palestiniens would be gone.

You know perfectly well that Israel is dividing land and building illegal settlements in order to create so many pockets that a practical Palestinian state is unviable.

It's no secret that Netanyahu is opposed to a two-state solution, and Israeli cabinet members have confirmed it.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The fact remains that the land was liberated, that the Jordanians had no relation to that piece of land and that this is all that matters. Bringing up religion is irrelevant, the right is an historical one. The people who were there before Judea became the homeland of the Jews (that's where the name comes from in case you've been wondering, like the Japanese and Japan), were not a people in the national sense but a bunch of tribes that don't exist today.

The Egyptians certainly do exist and were in Jerusalem before the Jews.

Europeans had no relation to North America, so by your argument the Native Americans would be justified in taking it back by force?

It's a completely ridiculous argument.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

There's nothing intelligent in your post that I could even consider replying to. I mean do you understand the meaning of the words "not existing"? Do you understand what it means that the Canaanite tribes don't exist anymore? You want to give them a state in the land? Go ahead and do, they don't exist. What part of that should I repeat for the thousandth time so you would consider understanding?

I get it though. It upsets you that Jews get a homeland. It doesn't upset you that other people have a homeland based on that same right to self-determination but it upsets you that Jews do. You can't really do anything about it can you? So just, I don't know, get over it.

Killing off the competition so that you can pretend that the land was always yours does not change the fact that there were, in fact, people there before you rather than "merely tribes".

You exterminating a group so that they don't exist anymore and then smugly sneering about it is rather telling though. Yet another reason why using religion to justify the creation and expansion of a country is a bad idea.

Oh look, the "if you don't blindly support everything we do, you hate Jews!" argument. Yawn. That one lost its punch years ago buddy. Other countries don't act like those they wiped out to get their "homeland based on self determination" were little more than bison, in the way and only fit for slaughter.

Just like the Palestineans should just "get over" rockets killing random bystanders in a flailing attempt to take out rocket batteries.....right?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

There are posters here who are defending North Korea and are doing a better job than you do in standing with evil. "Not exactly the worst atrocity in the world"? What a perfect argument that is. The true hypocrisy is in pretending that the Jordanians were treating the population fairly during their control of East Jerusalem and then going on to claim that Israel liberating that land and returning it to Jewish control was an horrible atrocity and a "land grab" from the Jordanians who obvioulsy have no connection to the land. Hysterical really.

Oh, so you think those who don't think the embassy should be moved to Jerusalem, and those who don't buy the narrative that the city was always yours because you really, really, really wanted it and to hell with anybody in the way of that are evil, that's it?

You randomly brining up North Korea is somewhat bizarre, but rather telling. Must be hard seeing large scale opposition to something you want even in the US. But hey, just more fuel for your "the only ones we can count on is yourselves!" narrative. Which conviently ignores reality, but then again.....

Yes, it was a land grab. You really, really, really wanted the city in Jewish hands, like you said, so you were always going to move on it no matter what the UN or anyone else said.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So you are supporting the jordanian ethnic cleansing of east jerusalem, and have no issue with the destruction of holy sites to the jewish people in their most holy city? Christian sites were protected has little to do with it, as jewish sites were desecrated , just because christians were not kicked out or their holy sites desecrated does not make it acceptable.

Did anyone die no, but that is not the point, ethnically cleansing an area of people and destroying their holy sites is among the most vile acts of humanity, it is bad no matter where it occurs in the world, and anyone who makes excuses to justify it is just as evil as those who committed it.

It was horrific treatment, despite preserving christian sites they banned new construction of them, destroyed jewish holy sites, kicked the jews out, and kept christians as second class citizens, ontop of that you are still arguing one illegal occupation is ok while the other is wrong. Israel has preserved the holy sites and has allowed all religions in to visit them, and has granted rights to palestinians of jerusalem even if they do not have israeli citizenship, a far cry from jordanian oppression.


On the last it was a reign of terror for everyone there who was not muslim, it was bad that jordan blocked the holiest sites of 3 major religions from the world, committed ethnic cleansing and destruction of holy sites and artifacts, some believed to go back to the iron or bronze age.

Like I said..... if the Jordanians had wanted to wipe out the Jewish populace, they could have done so. They didn't. You acting like the Jordanians acted like some sort of barbarian tribe is especially hilarious when you consider Jordan and Israel have had pretty damn decent relations for many years now. It's pretty clear that your interpretation is not the one held by many.

So if no Jews died.....and Christian sites were protected......then the only real charge you have is "they destroyed a few important religious/historical sites". Which, frankly, is pretty damn mild considering what neighborhood this is. And oh look, more rather lame, "you are evil" shrieking. Yawn.

So in other words you don't have any "oppression" you just don't like that it was non Jews running things. Got it

 

[beerftw]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Like I said..... if the Jordanians had wanted to wipe out the Jewish populace, they could have done so. They didn't. You acting like the Jordanians acted like some sort of barbarian tribe is especially hilarious when you consider Jordan and Israel have had pretty damn decent relations for many years now. It's pretty clear that your interpretation is not the one held by many.

So if no Jews died.....and Christian sites were protected......then the only real charge you have is "they destroyed a few important religious/historical sites". Which, frankly, is pretty damn mild considering what neighborhood this is. And oh look, more rather lame, "you are evil" shrieking. Yawn.

So in other words you don't have any "oppression" you just don't like that it was non Jews running things. Got it

So if the jews were only opressed and not killed, it is now acceptable? if crhistian sites were protected it is ok, so are the jews somehow devoid of rights and dignity that christians and muslims were afforded? Did you know that cemetary they desecrated was from the bronze age and was on the mount of olives, where jews have buried some of their most important people since the bronze age?

In any case you are arguing that ethnic cleansing was ok, and justifying one illegal occupation while opposing another, and even arguing destruction of sacred religious places going back thousands of years as ok so long as it was only to the jews, because you know the christian sites were protected.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So if the jews were only opressed and not killed, it is now acceptable? if crhistian sites were protected it is ok, so are the jews somehow devoid of rights and dignity that christians and muslims were afforded? Did you know that cemetary they desecrated was from the bronze age and was on the mount of olives, where jews have buried some of their most important people since the bronze age?

In any case you are arguing that ethnic cleansing was ok, and justifying one illegal occupation while opposing another, and even arguing destruction of sacred religious places going back thousands of years as ok so long as it was only to the jews, because you know the christian sites were protected.

Oh look, more "you hate the Jews" babble. Yawn.

"Ethnic cleansing" where nobody died is a pretty damn mild "ethnic cleansing" wouldn't you say buddy?

Oh, so you admit it was nothing more than a land grab? Good. Now that we've gotten the "city is ours because we really really really want it--- uh, I mean god wants us to take it!" line out of the way.....

 

[beerftw]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Oh look, more "you hate the Jews" babble. Yawn.

"Ethnic cleansing" where nobody died is a pretty damn mild "ethnic cleansing" wouldn't you say buddy?

Oh, so you admit it was nothing more than a land grab? Good. Now that we've gotten the "city is ours because we really really really want it--- uh, I mean god wants us to take it!" line out of the way.....

You were the one who made the argument that christian monuments were not destroyed, hinting that as long as it was just the jews it was ok, no one made your argument for you, you did.

Ethnic cleansing is not killing people, genocide is, genocide can be ethnic cleansing but ethnic cleansing does not equal genocide. Ethnic cleansing is the removal of ethnic or religious groups from a region or area, IE expelling them.

I never admitted it was nothing more than a land grab, I shown it was an illegal occupation followed by an illegal occupation, with you arguing one was ok and one was not, nice strawman argument you have followed by shifting the goalposts, if ad hominems were achievements in debate you have won, unfortunately ad hominems are a sign of defeat, meaning you could not defeat the argument with facts.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Like I said..... if the Jordanians had wanted to wipe out the Jewish populace, they could have done so. They didn't. You acting like the Jordanians acted like some sort of barbarian tribe is especially hilarious when you consider Jordan and Israel have had pretty damn decent relations for many years now. It's pretty clear that your interpretation is not the one held by many.

So if no Jews died.....and Christian sites were protected......then the only real charge you have is "they destroyed a few important religious/historical sites". Which, frankly, is pretty damn mild considering what neighborhood this is. And oh look, more rather lame, "you are evil" shrieking. Yawn.

So in other words you don't have any "oppression" you just don't like that it was non Jews running things. Got it

You left out the ethnic cleansing. Why?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The Egyptians certainly do exist and were in Jerusalem before the Jews.

Europeans had no relation to North America, so by your argument the Native Americans would be justified in taking it back by force?

It's a completely ridiculous argument.

Occupying it like the Ottomans and British and the rest have, was not part of their homeland.
Your arguments are thus indeed ridiculous.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Killing off the competition so that you can pretend that the land was always yours does not change the fact that there were, in fact, people there before you rather than "merely tribes".

You exterminating a group so that they don't exist anymore and then smugly sneering about it is rather telling though. Yet another reason why using religion to justify the creation and expansion of a country is a bad idea.

Oh look, the "if you don't blindly support everything we do, you hate Jews!" argument. Yawn. That one lost its punch years ago buddy. Other countries don't act like those they wiped out to get their "homeland based on self determination" were little more than bison, in the way and only fit for slaughter.

Just like the Palestineans should just "get over" rockets killing random bystanders in a flailing attempt to take out rocket batteries.....right?

No idea what your last sentence means but then again the entire of your posts in this thread are nonsensical, you're attempting to argue that the invasion by the Israelites to Canaan in ancient times and the removal of the local tribes living in the land is somehow relevant to our modern times and you're talking as if there's something wrong with Israel's current treatment of those non-existing tribes, it's surreal. Must be a joke.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Oh, so you think those who don't think the embassy should be moved to Jerusalem, and those who don't buy the narrative that the city was always yours because you really, really, really wanted it and to hell with anybody in the way of that are evil, that's it?

You randomly brining up North Korea is somewhat bizarre, but rather telling. Must be hard seeing large scale opposition to something you want even in the US. But hey, just more fuel for your "the only ones we can count on is yourselves!" narrative. Which conviently ignores reality, but then again.....

Yes, it was a land grab. You really, really, really wanted the city in Jewish hands, like you said, so you were always going to move on it no matter what the UN or anyone else said.

It's called history, those who don't "buy" history are denying it and are attempting to rewrite it but history remains documented and the Jewish presence in the land for the last 3,000 years is well documented unfortunately for you and others.

People who defend North Korea is just another example of what you're doing here which is defending a tyrannical and backwards regime that was ethnic cleansing people, denying religious freedom and destroying sacred sites of a certain religion.

What was a land grab was the Jordanians occupying the Eastern part of the city. That was over in 1967 when it was liberated.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Occupying it like the Ottomans and British and the rest have, was not part of their homeland.
Your arguments are thus indeed ridiculous.

Your argument that legal ownership of land is based on something as vague as 'homeland', rather than the rule of law is what is ridiculous.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

It's called history, those who don't "buy" history are denying it and are attempting to rewrite it but history remains documented and the Jewish presence in the land for the last 3,000 years is well documented unfortunately for you and others.

People who defend North Korea is just another example of what you're doing here which is defending a tyrannical and backwards regime that was ethnic cleansing people, denying religious freedom and destroying sacred sites of a certain religion.

What was a land grab was the Jordanians occupying the Eastern part of the city. That was over in 1967 when it was liberated.

Living somewhere a long time does not give you legal ownership of it. The native Americans have had a presence for thousands of years before the Europeans.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Your argument that legal ownership of land is based on something as vague as 'homeland', rather than the rule of law is what is ridiculous.

Your argument that the rule of law is somehow dictating the right to a piece of land over 3,000 years ago by the Ancient Egyptians is absurdly ridiculous. Egyptians came from Egypt. They conquered the land through conquest as the Brits did not long ago in many places around the world such as India and the land that is Israel today. It didn't mean that they were the native population of the land or that the Egyptians have a right now to the land in modern times.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So if the jews were only opressed and not killed, it is now acceptable? if crhistian sites were protected it is ok, so are the jews somehow devoid of rights and dignity that christians and muslims were afforded? Did you know that cemetary they desecrated was from the bronze age and was on the mount of olives, where jews have buried some of their most important people since the bronze age?

In any case you are arguing that ethnic cleansing was ok, and justifying one illegal occupation while opposing another, and even arguing destruction of sacred religious places going back thousands of years as ok so long as it was only to the jews, because you know the christian sites were protected.

But you justify and support one illegal while opposing the other. Palestinians are being oppressed by the illegal occupiers yet you seem perfectly fine with that.