‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement[W:25]

[EliaHarr]

‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Ahead of Trump's pronouncement, close U.S. allies such as Britain, France and Germany had criticized him and questioned the wisdom of such a move. German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said Tuesday that the pursuit of such policies by the Trump administration is why traditional U.S.-European ties have started to “crumble.”

“We all know the far-reaching impact this move would have,” Gabriel said. “Germany’s position on this issue remains unchanged: A solution to the Jerusalem problem can only be found through direct negotiations between both parties. Everything which worsens the crisis is counterproductive.”

In Russia, the Kremlin also joined the list of nations fearing that such a move will exacerbate tensions between Israel and Palestinians, saying that the situation could worsen as a result. It was one of the few times a Kremlin foreign policy goal has converged with that of most NATO member states.Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said the U.S. plan is “unlawful” and could have “irreversible consequences” in the region.

So, looks like Trump managed to unite the whole damn world against us this time.

I can't think of anything more likely to cause attacks than recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol or Israel.The only group that will happy with this is religious fanatics - including evangelicals around the world and right wing Israelis. I can't think of any group in the US who benefits by this other than the 'end is nigh' crowd pushing for the 3rd temple. What possible reason could he have for making this decision?

Right now I am betting a reversal will come - because this is ridiculous.

Honestly Trump is being exactly how everyone expected him to be and that is a stupid person.

 

[EliaHarr]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

I mean... it IS Israel's capital, Trump didn't "make it" it's capital... and I side with Israel against countries/people who are trying to take it's sovereignty away.

You can't just do whatever you like whenever you like, U.S government must choose whether to accept UN decisions or to just leave the UN...how can you condemn some countries (e.g: Iran ) saying they aren't applying to international laws (acquiring nuclear weapons) while you do the same (taking away other people's right of independence and sovereignty)

 

[EliaHarr]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Liberated.

Stolen is a more accurate term

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Stolen is a more accurate term

From whom? The Jordanians? It was never theirs.
Thus liberated, as much as it seems to upset you.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So you agree that Jerusalem was never part of the Kingdom of Israel.

It doesn't matter if it was never the capital of another nation. That has no bearing on what the law says.

This conversation will get nowhere while you claim that Israel has a legal right to a city not within it's borders because of a self-claim that it's their eternal capital.

Israel was parted, so there was the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah, but both are parts of the Jewish people homeland and both belonged to the Jewish people. Jerusalem was part of the Kingdom of Judah. (Its heart)

And of course it matters that it was never the capital of any other nation and not part of the homeland of any other people. It means there was no claim to it by an existing nation apart from the claim made by the Jewish nation.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Your sense of logic appears to be invalid, no one said there weren't such attacks, what was said is that your claim that there was no terrorism in the land previous to those attacks by Jewish groups was a myth.

Proof:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1921_Jaffa_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

Enjoy your reading.

You will never expand, ha?
Always beeing rude to someone with another opinion. Always picking only the arguments you think you can disprove. Always ignore the other and hope they will be forgotten.

Fruitless discussion with you because you have no interest in recognising arguments from the other side and (my opinion) no interest in a peaceful solution both Arabs and jewish Israelis can live with....

I have only tiny hopes that your region will find peace some day with such stubborn citizens on both sides.
urgs sorry - I can imagine Arabs are no citizens for you...

 

[EliaHarr]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

From whom? The Jordanians? It was never theirs.
Thus liberated, as much as it seems to upset you.

Palestine was a state where both Muslims and Jews lived in harmony (you can check it) until Britain gave the land to Zionists while Palestinians (Muslims, Jews and Christians) refused the decision to make it a state for Jews called Israel...Jews refuse to have a land for their own because that's their religious belief so don't let the media change the facts and picture it as if Jews were thrown out of Palestine because they weren't, they lived there for centuries in peace until Zionists and their allies forced their plans into existence with the help of media and lobbies.. Etc

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Israel was parted, so there was the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah, but both are parts of the Jewish people homeland and both belonged to the Jewish people. Jerusalem was part of the Kingdom of Judah. (Its heart)

And of course it matters that it was never the capital of any other nation and not part of the homeland of any other people. It means there was no claim to it by an existing nation apart from the claim made by the Jewish nation.

Of course it doesn't matter whether it was the capital city of another country. Does the US have a right to Vancouver because it's not the capital of Canada?

Anyway, I'm done here. When your arguments consist of 'it's their eternal capital so the law doesn't matter' it's beyond debate.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

seems to me a reliable source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman

and he wrote that: Terrorism in Israel and Palestine

 

[celticwar17]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

You can't just do whatever you like whenever you like, U.S government must choose whether to accept UN decisions or to just leave the UN...how can you condemn some countries (e.g: Iran ) saying they aren't applying to international laws (acquiring nuclear weapons) while you do the same (taking away other people's right of independence and sovereignty)

I certainly don't give a crap about the UN... so that's not something I'm concerned about. I obviously disagree with whatever UN policy you are referring to.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Nonsense. Jerusalem existed before Jews ever set foot in it. Jerusalem wasn't even part of the ancient Kingdom of Israel.

- bombing a military hq is not a terrorist attack.

- There were many massacres of Jewish civilians orchestrated by the Arabs prior to that

You really do need to read up on your history. Reliance on superficial agenda-driven European media probably won't get you very far down that road.

 

[EliaHarr]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

I certainly don't give a crap about the UN... so that's not something I'm concerned about. I obviously disagree with whatever UN policy you are referring to.

So why the hell is U.S interfering with other countries businesses ?! Didn't they invade a lot of Middle East countries in the name of international peace ?!

 

[celticwar17]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So why the hell is U.S interfering with other countries businesses ?! Didn't they invade a lot of Middle East countries in the name of international peace ?!

How is the U.S. recognizing Israel's capital interfering?
Jerusalem IS... Israel's capital, that is a fact... Israel has stated it so... and naturally... as their biggest ally, the united states... also recognizes it has their capital..

it really is as simple as that.

As a side note, the U.S. interfering in the worlds business is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing.... it's hard to really know... certainly though, without a doubt the world has been in a period of unheard of peace ever since the US has rose to superpower, believe it or not. The top economic countries in the world have not had a direct war with each other for over 60+ years... almost unheard of in human history

 

[EliaHarr]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

How is the U.S. recognizing Israel's capital interfering?
Jerusalem IS... Israel's capital, that is a fact... Israel has stated it so... and naturally... as their biggest ally, the united states... also recognizes it has their capital..

it really is as simple as that.

As a side note, the U.S. interfering in the worlds business is sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing.... it's hard to really know... certainly though, without a doubt the world has been in a period of unheard of peace ever since the US has rose to superpower, believe it or not. The top economic countries in the world have not had a direct war with each other for over 60+ years... almost unheard of in human history

The peace the world lives in today is because of the appearance of international organizations and many other factors that US has nothing to do with. In fact most of the wars we heard of recently has US involved in one way or another .

 

[Dirt Sands]

It turns out that saying that Jerusalem doesn't change much over there. Apparently the embassy won't be moved. Here, the evangelicals sure do like it.

Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

No idea what your last sentence means but then again the entire of your posts in this thread are nonsensical, you're attempting to argue that the invasion by the Israelites to Canaan in ancient times and the removal of the local tribes living in the land is somehow relevant to our modern times and you're talking as if there's something wrong with Israel's current treatment of those non-existing tribes, it's surreal. Must be a joke.

The wiping out of the "mere tribes" living in the area is the justification you've been using for the land grab, so it's quite relevant. The real joke is your desperate attempts to brand anyone who doesn't agree with your land grabs as "anti Semites".

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

It's called history, those who don't "buy" history are denying it and are attempting to rewrite it but history remains documented and the Jewish presence in the land for the last 3,000 years is well documented unfortunately for you and others.

People who defend North Korea is just another example of what you're doing here which is defending a tyrannical and backwards regime that was ethnic cleansing people, denying religious freedom and destroying sacred sites of a certain religion.

What was a land grab was the Jordanians occupying the Eastern part of the city. That was over in 1967 when it was liberated.

Yes, you wiping out the "more tribes" and then pretending that the land was always yours is well documented, unfortunately for you. Last time I checked, being able to kill everyone in an area does not magically give you the right to that area forever and ever and ever, nor does it mean you can pretend it was always yours.

Oh really? We are pretending Jordan is equivalent to North Korea now? Seriously buddy? Of all the dishonest and downright idiotic claims I've seen, that one ranks pretty high up there. An "ethnic cleansing" where nobody died is a pretty mild "ethnic cleansing".

No, there was no "liberating" involved. It was nothing more than a land grab.

 

[ido_]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

"Liberated".

You know, I rather doubt anyone in Jerusalem felt they were in need of "liberation" when they were under Jordanian rule, but hey, religious based land grabs are always good, right?

Jews were the majority in Jerusalem in 1948 and almost throughout history.
The Jordanians deported the Jews from the occupied old city, so yes the city was liberated

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Yes, you wiping out the "more tribes" and then pretending that the land was always yours is well documented, unfortunately for you. Last time I checked, being able to kill everyone in an area does not magically give you the right to that area forever and ever and ever, nor does it mean you can pretend it was always yours.

Oh really? We are pretending Jordan is equivalent to North Korea now? Seriously buddy? Of all the dishonest and downright idiotic claims I've seen, that one ranks pretty high up there. An "ethnic cleansing" where nobody died is a pretty mild "ethnic cleansing".

No, there was no "liberating" involved. It was nothing more than a land grab.

As I said there are people here who protect North Korea and do a better job than you do in standing with evil. We get it, Jordanians taking a land that isn't theirs and enforcing their dark regime on it = good, Jews liberating that land and having a Democracy in it = bad. Great, can we move on now or do you want to tell us how great Stalin's regime was?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The wiping out of the "mere tribes" living in the area is the justification you've been using for the land grab, so it's quite relevant. The real joke is your desperate attempts to brand anyone who doesn't agree with your land grabs as "anti Semites".

Strawman arguments are the weapon of the misguided who can't admit to their own ignorance on the subject they wasted time discussing, I will thus admit to your ignorance in your name.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Of course it doesn't matter whether it was the capital city of another country. Does the US have a right to Vancouver because it's not the capital of Canada?

Anyway, I'm done here. When your arguments consist of 'it's their eternal capital so the law doesn't matter' it's beyond debate.

Vancouver is part of the homeland of a sovereign nation - Canada. Was Jerusalem ever part of a the homeland of a sovereign nation other than the Jewish nation? No. So there we have it. You're welcome.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Palestine was a state

No it wasn't. It was a British colony.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

seems to me a reliable source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman

and he wrote that: Terrorism in Israel and Palestine

If your source is a propaganda website you really need me to prove you're far from neutrality on the subject?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

You will never expand, ha?
Always beeing rude to someone with another opinion. Always picking only the arguments you think you can disprove. Always ignore the other and hope they will be forgotten.

Fruitless discussion with you because you have no interest in recognising arguments from the other side and (my opinion) no interest in a peaceful solution both Arabs and jewish Israelis can live with....

I have only tiny hopes that your region will find peace some day with such stubborn citizens on both sides.
urgs sorry - I can imagine Arabs are no citizens for you...

Arab citizens of Israel are citizens of Israel, not just to me but to the state's laws.
As to your nonsensical drivel - nothing to reply to there.
If you don't want me to confront you for what you're saying make sure you're educated on the subject you're discussing, this should go without saying and is applying to all subjects of discussion, not just Israel.

 

[beerftw]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

But you justify and support one illegal while opposing the other. Palestinians are being oppressed by the illegal occupiers yet you seem perfectly fine with that.

Generally speaking both moves are illegal, but if I had to take sides the israeli treatment of palestinians is far better than jordanian treatment of jews israelis and all non muslims. The main argument does not even come down to east and west jerusalem as much as it does over the old city, which is dead center between the two and has been occupied by jews going back to the bronze age, and is also one of the oldest standing cities on earth. The jews hold temple mount as sacred, the christians the church of the holy sepulcher, and the muslims also view temple mount as sacred.