‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement[W:25]

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Living somewhere a long time does not give you legal ownership of it. The native Americans have had a presence for thousands of years before the Europeans.

No, the right of a people to self-determination grants them the right to have a state in their homeland.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Your argument that the rule of law is somehow dictating the right to a piece of land over 3,000 years ago by the Ancient Egyptians is absurdly ridiculous. Egyptians came from Egypt. They conquered the land through conquest as the Brits did not long ago in many places around the world such as India and the land that is Israel today. It didn't mean that they were the native population of the land or that the Egyptians have a right now to the land in modern times.

But that's your argument for Israeli ownership!!

You're saying that Israel legally owns Jerusalem because Jews have lived their a long time. It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

But you justify and support one illegal while opposing the other. Palestinians are being oppressed by the illegal occupiers yet you seem perfectly fine with that.

Israel isn't an occupier in Jerusalem which is its eternal capital and the place of birth of the Jewish people. The Jordanians were, until the land was liberated from them in 1967.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

No, the right of a people to self-determination grants them the right to have a state in their homeland.

Israel does have a state in their homeland. Jerusalem has never been a part of that state. Just because Jews have lived their a long time doesn't mean that Israel owns it or is entitled to it. non-Jews have lived in Jerusalem for thousands of years as well.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Jerusalem was founded by the Jews, was the location of the Holy Temple built in 957 BC, and belongs to that people more than any other group who lay some claim to it...even Christians who should recognize that Jesus was a Jew.

I´ll live with the danger to be called Nazi although I´m more left leaning. But I can´t hear this argument anymore!

Istanbul/Konstantinopel/Byzanz was founded by the Greeks/Romans
Straßburg, Königsberg(Kaliningrad) Danzig and many more were founded by the Germans
I could mention hundreds of examples - only with Israel it´s different. Because their god said it was their land... (they stole it from the Kanaanites btw) heck, the complete States were inhabited by the Indians. (and their gods told them it was theirs)

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

1) Israel isn't an occupier in Jerusalem which is its 2) eternal capital and the 3) place of birth of the Jewish people. The Jordanians were, until the land was liberated from them in 1967.

1) the law and international consensus disagrees.
2) There's no such thing as an eternal capital.
3) It is not the place of birth of the Jewish people. Jerusalem was founded by Canaanites and existed for a thousand years before David arrived there.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

But that's your argument for Israeli ownership!!

You're saying that Israel legally owns Jerusalem because Jews have lived their a long time. It's a ridiculous argument.

Where was that stated? Nowhere.
The fact that Jews lived there for all that time since it was taken away from their control simply reinforces their right to hold it again as was practiced since 1967. By what standard do you want that right to be taken away from them? What right is there to the people called the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter to be holding Jerusalem or parts of it?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Israel does have a state in their homeland. Jerusalem has never been a part of that state. Just because Jews have lived their a long time doesn't mean that Israel owns it or is entitled to it. non-Jews have lived in Jerusalem for thousands of years as well.

Jerusalem has been part of that homeland and not part of the homeland of any other nation through history, Jerusalem has been considered the eternal capital of the Jewish people since their birth as a people, the non-Jews who lived there were citizens of the different factions who occupied the land throuh the ages but none of them formed a nation in the land and made Jerusalem the capital of that nation.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Where was that stated? Nowhere.
The fact that Jews lived there for all that time since it was taken away from their control simply reinforces their right to hold it again as was practiced since 1967. By what standard do you want that right to be taken away from them? What right is there to the people called the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter to be holding Jerusalem or parts of it?

because they lived there when the Jews came from Europe and founded Israel?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

because they lived there when the Jews came from Europe?

So did Jews.
And the land was occupied from those Jews - not from the general population of the occupied British Mandate of Palestine.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

1) the law and international consensus disagrees.
2) There's no such thing as an eternal capital.
3) It is not the place of birth of the Jewish people. Jerusalem was founded by Canaanites and existed for a thousand years before David arrived there.

The 'international law' doesn't disagree at all, the land was taken from the Jordanians after all who were occupiers themselves.
The 'international consensus' is meaningless as they can decide tomorrow that the Earth is flat because Israel had flattened it and still gain a majority. What matters is the reality on the ground and for the past 50 years the reunited and liberated Jerusalem has been part of the state of Israel.

The Canaanites weren't a people but a bunch of tribes who lived in the land. The Jebusites are the tribe you're referring to out of all those tribes who lived in Jerusalem but they don't exist anymore, had they did I'm sure it would have been relevant. And it is the place of birth of the Jewish people, denying that is merely being ignorant of history.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

So did Jews.
And the land was occupied from those Jews - not from the general population of the occupied British Mandate of Palestine.

fine - so there has to be found a solution wich fits both - and not only one side

btw for anyone who did not know: first brutal terrorists in Palestine were Zionists who bombed against the British because they treated the Arabs too nice. Hammas & other murderers learnt well from them. Before Israel was founded and went bigger and bigger - palestine was one of the safest places on earth for Jews.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

fine - so there has to be found a solution wich fits both - and not only one side

btw for anyone who did not know: first brutal terrorists in Palestine were Zionists who bombed against the British because they treated the Arabs too nice. Hammas & other murderers learnt well from them. Before Israel was founded and went bigger and bigger - palestine was one of the safest places on earth for Jews.

That is also not true, as acts of Jewish terrorism at that time came after acts of Arab terrorism such as the massacres of Jews in 1921 in Jaffa and 1929 in Hebron.

You simply recycle well known myths here that attempt to rewrite history.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

That is also not true, as acts of Jewish terrorism at that time came after acts of Arab terrorism such as the massacres of Jews in 1921 in Jaffa and 1929 in Hebron.

You simply recycle well known myths here that attempt to rewrite history.

me or you - everyone has it own "truth" in these trumpian times ;o)

I have the advantage that I don´t have to defend that bad treatment arabs receive in my land - so I may be a little bit more neutral

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

me or you - everyone has it own "truth" in These Trumpian times ;o)

I have the advantage that I don´t have to defend that bad treatment arabs receive in my land - so I may be a little bit more neutral

The truth isn't owned. If you paid money to buy a house you have documents that show you bought it. Likewise, history is also documented so no one gets to deny it. The acts of terror I referred to for example are easy to learn about and impossible to deny. You have no such neutrality anyway.

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The truth isn't owned. If you paid money to buy a house you have documents that show you bought it. Likewise, history is also documented so no one gets to deny it. The acts of terror I referred to for example are easy to learn about and impossible to deny. You have no such neutrality anyway.

Everybody who has a little knowlege of history knows that "the Truth" is often non existent. The winner writes the truth.

With the the two early Terror attacts you may be right. I saw a BBC documentation about the Zionist Terror and thought it was trustworthy - but I did not check it.
But you may give me the pooint that there was a cruel and deadly Zionist Terror campaign? Only self defence? Against the british?

So why shouldn´t I be neutral? I have nothing to gain or loose in this discussion - I only try to be fair - that would be quite hard for you to be - only really wise People could manage that

 

[german hick]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

"The King David Hotel bombing was a terrorist[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] attack carried out on Monday, July 22, 1946, by the militant right-wing[9] Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[10] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[11][12][13] Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.[14]"

after a short Google search - there have been more

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Jerusalem has been part of that homeland and not part of the homeland of any other nation through history, Jerusalem has been considered the eternal capital of the Jewish people since their birth as a people, the non-Jews who lived there were citizens of the different factions who occupied the land throuh the ages but none of them formed a nation in the land and made Jerusalem the capital of that nation.

Nonsense. Jerusalem existed before Jews ever set foot in it. Jerusalem wasn't even part of the ancient Kingdom of Israel.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The 'international law' doesn't disagree at all, the land was taken from the Jordanians after all who were occupiers themselves.
The 'international consensus' is meaningless as they can decide tomorrow that the Earth is flat because Israel had flattened it and still gain a majority. What matters is the reality on the ground and for the past 50 years the reunited and liberated Jerusalem has been part of the state of Israel.

The Canaanites weren't a people but a bunch of tribes who lived in the land. The Jebusites are the tribe you're referring to out of all those tribes who lived in Jerusalem but they don't exist anymore, had they did I'm sure it would have been relevant. And it is the place of birth of the Jewish people, denying that is merely being ignorant of history.

What happened 3,000 years ago has no relevance as to the ownership of that land now. All your talk of homelands and eternal capitals is meaningless.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

What happened 3,000 years ago has no relevance as to the ownership of that land now. All your talk of homelands and eternal capitals is meaningless.

What happened during the last 3,000 years has everything to do with the right to self-determination, your claims are obviously completely detached from reality and are based purely on ignorance.

Educate yourself on the right to self-determination and how nations are formed and then try again to discuss such issue with people who are aware of this sort of things.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Nonsense. Jerusalem existed before Jews ever set foot in it. Jerusalem wasn't even part of the ancient Kingdom of Israel.

Both statements are correct and I haven't stated otherwise.
Jerusalem existed, it just wasn't a city and certainly not a major one. It was King David and later Solomon who built the city. Still this has no relevancy whatsoever to the fact that Jerusalem was the capital of the kingdom of Judea.

Was it the capital of any other sovereign nation? Ever? Why won't you answer that question.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

"The King David Hotel bombing was a terrorist[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] attack carried out on Monday, July 22, 1946, by the militant right-wing[9] Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing[10] of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.[11][12][13] Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.[14]"

after a short Google search - there have been more

Your sense of logic appears to be invalid, no one said there weren't such attacks, what was said is that your claim that there was no terrorism in the land previous to those attacks by Jewish groups was a myth.

Proof:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1921_Jaffa_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

Enjoy your reading.

 

[John Prewett]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

What happened 3,000 years ago has no relevance as to the ownership of that land now. All your talk of homelands and eternal capitals is meaningless.

https://i.imgur.com/rB1nWBZ.png

Ezekiel 38-39. Sooner the better Trump's move hastens the coming of Ezekiel 38-39

We are rapidly approaching coming to pass of The Great Jihadist-trap.
And Bear-trap. Nearly all will see [TV + internet] this event come to pass.
Ezekiel 38-39, Zechariah 12-14, Joel 3, Psalms 83, Isaiah 17
describe a great Jihadist [Islamic terrorist] trap.
How so ?
Zechariah 12-14 reveals at first it will appear Israel is defeated.
At that time all previously hesitant Jihadist
will flood into Israel intending rape and pillage.
Shortly after that ALL the invaders will be annihilated by Jesus/angels.
Thus the “waterloo” of the Islamic Satanic delusion.

Since lead invading nation is from “remote north” (Ezekiel 38:6, 39:2)
of Israel, this nation must be Russia. Thus the invasion will also result
in the “waterloo” of Russian dream of world ruler-ship.

“ I am going to make Jerusalem a cup of reeling before all the surrounding nations.
And when there is a siege against Judah, it is also against Jerusalem.
And it will be on that day that I will set Jerusalem as a weighty stone to all the peoples.
All who carry it will surely cut themselves, and all the nations
of the land will be gathered against it.” Zechariah 12:2-3

SLINGING SEEDS
https://i.imgur.com/tbDiCv0.png
https://i.imgur.com/64tjGpf.png

Globalist [“elites”] are top level minions of Satan, the “god of this world.”
Globalist human kingpin is the pope
Globalist had POTUS minions for decades
Globalist have Trillions of $ with which to bribe
Globalist have files on everybody that is anybody
Globalist have death squads
Globalist have access to all kinds of weapons
Globalist have CIA minion.
Globalist have MSMedia minion
Globalist are creating the One World Government
Globalist One World Government is ordained to come to be.
Globalist have planned for decades

Globalist will bring down Trump and the Nationalist and end “sovereign” USA and end the “sovereign” nations of Europe.

Globalist will have nukes used to end the current world order.

See Vatican’s FAZZINI sculpture named “Christ rising from crater of nuke blast”
Revelation 13->forward reveals soul saving blessing conveying information regarding OUR end of era scenario found nowhere else.
SLINGING SEEDS

 

[joG]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

You know perfectly well that Israel is dividing land and building illegal settlements in order to create so many pockets that a practical Palestinian state is unviable.

It's no secret that Netanyahu is opposed to a two-state solution, and Israeli cabinet members have confirmed it.

The settlement issue aside, the Palestiniens have a rather compact area along the Mediterranean that they could have developed decades ago. It would make a tourist paradise for wealthy Europeans seeking sun and sea side warmth. The Europeans and Arabs supplied cash and would have invested in the industry. But Hamas still wants Israel destroyed, organises terrorist hits and fires rockets into Israel. This has meant periodic military measures against them destroying infrastructure.

 

[Aristaeus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Both statements are correct and I haven't stated otherwise.
Jerusalem existed, it just wasn't a city and certainly not a major one. It was King David and later Solomon who built the city. Still this has no relevancy whatsoever to the fact that Jerusalem was the capital of the kingdom of Judea.

Was it the capital of any other sovereign nation? Ever? Why won't you answer that question.

So you agree that Jerusalem was never part of the Kingdom of Israel.

It doesn't matter if it was never the capital of another nation. That has no bearing on what the law says.

This conversation will get nowhere while you claim that Israel has a legal right to a city not within it's borders because of a self-claim that it's their eternal capital.