Voting by Mail

[ecofarm]

Everyone should be able to vote by mail. We should simply send ballots to registered voters. Really, why bother with everyone needing to request a mail ballot? We need to prepare for the number of mail ballots that will be required and the amount of mail that will be transported. That means more mail carriers, more mail ballot handlers and everything else that goes into voting by mail. We should do as much early voting as possible.

Trump is laying the groundwork to claim hoax when he loses 80-20 but, oh well, he can cry and go home or to prison.

 

[bluesmoke]

Everyone should be able to vote by mail. We should simply send ballots to registered voters. Really, why bother with everyone needing to request a mail ballot? We need to prepare for the number of mail ballots that will be required and the amount of mail that will be transported. That means more mail carriers, more mail ballot handlers and everything else that goes into voting by mail. We should do as much early voting as possible.

Trump is laying the groundwork to claim hoax when he loses 80-20 but, oh well, he can cry and go home or to prison.

Voting by mail will come about to the point that will make the "October surprise" a thing of the past. Voting will have had the election handle pulled early and gradually over a period of time well before the day of the election. It will be paper proof of voter selection until we start voting online vs by mail or in person. Candidates will have to get their message out earlier and more effectively. Perhaps even be selected by their party earlier. Oh, and there is practically nothing Trump won't do to win or keep hold of the presidency. The pandemic will be declared over enough before election day to have impact. Whatever you can think of, like Art Buchwald said "You can't make it up."

 

[avatar]

Voting by mail is a logical way to handle and election during a pandemic in addition to any other reason. Like the lack of PPE during the pandemic however it will generate a level of chaos as the states find themselves unready to count the ballots, get out the votes to the right people at the right addresses etc.

That chaos will allow, as mentioned above, the results of the election to be protested till sometime in 2021 IMO. I'm sure that the Trump administration is already looking into reasons to delay or cancel the November election if the poll numbers are bad, all for your safety of course. The administration is fighting tooth and claw to prevent vote by mail as it enables voters to get out and vote in larger numbers than is good for Trumps chances.

 

[NWRatCon]

There are active measures being taken by many Republican-controlled jurisdictions, including the US Senate, to inhibit States' efforts to turn to vote-by-mail. [These vote-by-mail lawsuits could help decide the presidential election (Politico); Why Republicans Are So Afraid of Vote-by-Mail (NYT, Subscription); Republican National Committee sues California to halt vote-by-mail for November general election (CNN).] It is already a sisyphean task, because most States simply do not have the infrastructure in place to go from 10-ish percent VBM to 100%. Few States Are Prepared To Switch To Voting By Mail. That Could Make For A Messy Election. (FiveThirtyEight).

 

[ReubenSherr]

Wrong forum - There's already a 20-page thread on this in the News Forum

 

[ChezC3]

No. And that's the problem -- everyone.

Not everyone is eligible.

 

[ecofarm]

Wrong forum - There's already a 20-page thread on this in the News Forum

It's a covid issue and John Oliver is not Breaking News but thanks.

 

[ecofarm]

It is already a sisyphean task, because most States simply do not have the infrastructure in place to go from 10-ish percent VBM to 100%. Few States Are Prepared To Switch To Voting By Mail. That Could Make For A Messy Election. (FiveThirtyEight).

It could take a couple months to get counting machines delivered and installed, as Oliver notes, so we should start gearing up now.

 

[NWRatCon]

It could take a couple months to get counting machines delivered and installed, as Oliver notes, so we should start gearing up now.

I agree. It should have started months ago.

 

[BrotherFease]

My view is that EVERYBODY should be eligible to vote-by-mail aka vote-by-absentee. But I would require people to ASK for the ballot rather than automatically giving it to everybody. I 100% agree with Oliver that voting in this country should be EASIER and people shouldn't be asked to vote or risk death/injury/illness. If you don't feel comfortable going to the ballot box, there should be alternatives. Ballot Harvesting and putting absentee ballots in the regular mailboxes shouldn't be allowed. You should bring it to the postoffice mailbox or directly to the election office.

 

[Slavister]

My view is that EVERYBODY should be eligible to vote-by-mail aka vote-by-absentee. But I would require people to ASK for the ballot rather than automatically giving it to everybody.

Why? Most people procrastinate way too long. By the time they decide to ask and wait for the shipment, it'll be too late. If you want to encourage people to vote, you should make it easier, not harder.

Ballot Harvesting and putting absentee ballots in the regular mailboxes shouldn't be allowed. You should bring it to the postoffice mailbox or directly to the election office.

I don't think there would be a lot of people stealing these at just the right time from the mailboxes. How would they know when I voted? And random scanning of mailboxes would just draw too much attention too fast. And then even if someone stole mine, what would they do? Pretty much throw it away. It's too much hassle to get another one and fill it out in my name and copy my signature and as Oliver notes that carries so much penalties just for one or few votes that it's not going to be worth it.

Sure this can happen here and there but I don't see this as affecting election outcome.

Overall, you are going to lose a lot more votes by making voters do another trip than by crooks tracking down ballots and throwing them away.

 

[btthegreat]

My view is that EVERYBODY should be eligible to vote-by-mail aka vote-by-absentee. But I would require people to ASK for the ballot rather than automatically giving it to everybody. I 100% agree with Oliver that voting in this country should be EASIER and people shouldn't be asked to vote or risk death/injury/illness. If you don't feel comfortable going to the ballot box, there should be alternatives. Ballot Harvesting and putting absentee ballots in the regular mailboxes shouldn't be allowed. You should bring it to the postoffice mailbox or directly to the election office.

this 'ballot harvesting' is not a serious problem in Oregon. There is a website you can check to see if your ballot was recieived and you can always use a series of drop off sites set up a couple of weeks prior rather than mail it at libraries, the courthouse, the DMV, post offices etc if you are worried.

We've been doing these elections for a long time now. Fraud is pretty easy to catch and its relatively scarce. I don't even have to think about it. I get my ballot and my voters pamphlet in the mail. Make it out within a week before I misplace it, and off it goes! If I do misplace it I ask for a new one, and they automatically put my name on their little 'double check' list for duplicate balloting, before they sent the second one. If I make a mistake on the ballot, I bring it in physically, and they replace it. Whenever I move, I get a new registration form automatically when I ask for a new address form from my post office or the DMV and reminders are all over everywhere to make out the one page five question form. All ballots are put into a signed envelope and then put into an outer signed 'secrecy sleave' for comparison with the signature registered at the county registration office which was sent in by the local DMV or post office when you make out the form there.. You do not get dropped from the registration list unless your ballot comes back as 'undeliverable'


Trust me this works well. We have the systems in place. Usually the list of convictions for vote tampering, vote fraud and harvesting is limited to isolated cases where someone forgot they voted during moving time, then asked for a second ballot, or someone decided to pick up Grandpa's ballot before he signed that outer envelope, and thought they were doing a favor by signing it for him, before sending it with theirs.

 

[BrotherFease]

Why? Most people procrastinate way too long. By the time they decide to ask and wait for the shipment, it'll be too late. If you want to encourage people to vote, you should make it easier, not harder.



I don't think there would be a lot of people stealing these at just the right time from the mailboxes. How would they know when I voted? And random scanning of mailboxes would just draw too much attention too fast. And then even if someone stole mine, what would they do? Pretty much throw it away. It's too much hassle to get another one and fill it out in my name and copy my signature and as Oliver notes that carries so much penalties just for one or few votes that it's not going to be worth it.

Sure this can happen here and there but I don't see this as affecting election outcome.

Overall, you are going to lose a lot more votes by making voters do another trip than by crooks tracking down ballots and throwing them away.

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. Every election cycle, she gets a letter in the mail, informing her of her voting location. Why in the world would you send her an absentee ballot? It would be a waste of money.

 

[BrotherFease]

this 'ballot harvesting' is not a serious problem in Oregon. There is a website you can check to see if your ballot was recieived and you can always use a series of drop off sites set up a couple of weeks prior rather than mail it at libraries, the courthouse, the DMV, post offices etc if you are worried.

We've been doing these elections for a long time now. Fraud is pretty easy to catch and its relatively scarce. I don't even have to think about it. I get my ballot and my voters pamphlet in the mail. Make it out within a week before I misplace it, and off it goes! Whenever I move, I get a new registration form automatically when I ask for a new address form from my post office or the DMV and reminders are all over everywhere to make out the one page five question form.

Playing devil's advocate here.

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. She has a death certificate and everything. But every election cycle, she gets a notice in the mail about her voting location and received absentee ballot request forms. Couldn't one of my relatives decide to memorize my grandmother's signature, and then vote on her behalf?

Lets say a kid goes off to college, and has no interest in voting in the upcoming election. The parents decide to vote on his behalf and fill out the form for him. How is the election office suppose to know who filled out the ballot?

 

[Slavister]

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. Every election cycle, she gets a letter in the mail, informing her of her voting location. Why in the world would you send her an absentee ballot? It would be a waste of money.

Sounds like the agency sending those out did not check for dead people correctly (e.g. in social security system)... or her death was not recorded properly. I'd recommend you check with those that mail those out on how they avoid sending it out to dead people.

You can also return-mail those mailings saying the person no longer lives at this address.

Lets say a kid goes off to college, and has no interest in voting in the upcoming election. The parents decide to vote on his behalf and fill out the form for him. How is the election office suppose to know who filled out the ballot?

And with your solution, how is the election office supposed to know who requested the ballot?

 

[Slartibartfast]

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. Every election cycle, she gets a letter in the mail, informing her of her voting location. Why in the world would you send her an absentee ballot? It would be a waste of money.

There should be a place for responsible voter roll cleanup in this process as well. In my opinion the cleanup list should be given at least 6 months before any election and given to any organization that registers people to vote so that these independent foundations can find and fix any errors in the process, including going to door to door if necessary.

 

[BrotherFease]

Sounds like the agency sending those out did not check for dead people correctly (e.g. in social security system)... or her death was not recorded properly. I'd recommend you check with those that mail those out on how they avoid sending it out to dead people.

You can also return-mail those mailings saying the person no longer lives at this address.

We have already did that, and Monroe County is still not removing her name from the voter roll.

I just don't understand why Grandma should be receiving an absentee ballot, when someone could decide to sign her name and cast a vote. I know this happens a lot. Dead people receive absentee ballots. The ballot was mailed to the wrong address. That's my issue. It's a waste of money.

 

[ecofarm]

No one commits five felonies, probably all federal jurisdiction, to add one vote. Super high risk, super low reward.

Anyone that believes fraud is an issue needs to watch the video in the OP.

 

[rickc]

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. Every election cycle, she gets a letter in the mail, informing her of her voting location. Why in the world would you send her an absentee ballot? It would be a waste of money.

Most voter rolls are purged if you don't vote for.a few elections. You have to register again if you want to vote.

 

[BrotherFease]

There should be a place for responsible voter roll cleanup in this process as well. In my opinion the cleanup list should be given at least 6 months before any election and given to any organization that registers people to vote so that these independent foundations can find and fix any errors in the process, including going to door to door if necessary.

That's my problem. If we're going to send ballots out to everybody, we should at least know these people actually live there OR if they're still alive.

 

[JasperL]

Playing devil's advocate here.

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. She has a death certificate and everything. But every election cycle, she gets a notice in the mail about her voting location and received absentee ballot request forms. Couldn't one of my relatives decide to memorize my grandmother's signature, and then vote on her behalf?

Lets say a kid goes off to college, and has no interest in voting in the upcoming election. The parents decide to vote on his behalf and fill out the form for him. How is the election office suppose to know who filled out the ballot?

The problem is those people are risking a felony conviction and jail for that one ballot, that has a statistically 0.00% chance of changing anything. It's likely why no one has ever shown the "dead" voting is more than a trivial (i.e. 2 or 3 per state per election, almost always a mistake) problem, or that ANY "voter" fraud rises above the trivial.

The risk of election fraud - things that change outcomes - is always, everywhere, insiders manipulating the system.

 

[btthegreat]

Playing devil's advocate here.

My grandmother has been dead for the past 11 years. She has a death certificate and everything. But every election cycle, she gets a notice in the mail about her voting location and received absentee ballot request forms. Couldn't one of my relatives decide to memorize my grandmother's signature, and then vote on her behalf?

Lets say a kid goes off to college, and has no interest in voting in the upcoming election. The parents decide to vote on his behalf and fill out the form for him. How is the election office suppose to know who filled out the ballot?

the letter doesn't matter. The ballot does They had better be checking that mail in her apartment or house consistently for months and years before every election, no matter how small including that special election for school board district 2, and that one for the library levy, because when the next owner/ tenant arrives and that address change hits or a ballot gets returned 'undeliverable' then her name gets removed automatically. Then these 'relatives' have to prove they are Grandma, to re-register. The registration happens in person at the DMV or Post office and the records are sent to the county.
As for the college student, the ballots have two have two separate signatures that can be compared to his registration and they better have a conversation with him to make sure he doesn't want to vote, because they will automatically face a prosecution. You basically run the same risk whether someone is a student or not in any absentee ballot scenario. If someone does not care one way or the other, they can tell someone else to make out the ballot for them, and then sign the envelopes for them in advance. Or in traditional balloting, I can just have you circle my voters pamphlet 'votes' and If you drive me down, or hand me ten five bucks, I will copy your 'answers' on my ballot.

Apathy exists, so people will get more than one bite of the apple if they can find and incentivize the apathetic to give them that second bite.

 

[BrotherFease]

the letter doesn't matter. The ballot does They had better be checking that mail in her apartment or house consistently for months and years before every election, no matter how small including that special election for school board district 2, and that one for the library levy, because when the next owner/ tenant arrives and that address change hits or a ballot gets returned 'undeliverable' then her name gets removed automatically. Then these 'relatives' have to prove they are Grandma, to re-register. The registration happens in person at the DMV or Post office and the records are sent to the county.
As for the college student, the ballots have two have two separate signatures that can be compared to his registration and they better have a conversation with him to make sure he doesn't want to vote, because they will automatically face a prosecution. You basically run the same risk whether someone is a student or not in any absentee ballot scenario. If someone does not care one way or the other, they can tell someone else to make out the ballot for them, and then sign the envelopes for them in advance. Or in traditional balloting, I can just have you circle my voters pamphlet 'votes' and If you drive me down, or hand me ten five bucks, I will copy your 'answers' on my ballot.

Apathy exists, so people will get more than one bite of the apple if they can find and incentivize the apathetic to give them that second bite.

In my Grandmother's situation, she changed her address to my mother's address. That's why we have been receiving mail addressed to Grandma.

In other words, the fraudster could change the sender address to their own, and then vote on their behalf.

 

[JasperL]

In my Grandmother's situation, she changed her address to my mother's address. That's why we have been receiving mail addressed to Grandma.

In other words, the fraudster could change the sender address to their own, and then vote on their behalf.

Sure, then point the finger right at their house, and risk a felony conviction for 0 upside, 0 personal gain. Not many people are that dumb. I'm sure there are a few, which is why there ARE a handful of 'voter fraud' cases in most states every year - a literal handful or so - but it's not a problem worth worrying about.

 

[btthegreat]

In my Grandmother's situation, she changed her address to my mother's address. That's why we have been receiving mail addressed to Grandma.

In other words, the fraudster could change the sender address to their own, and then vote on their behalf.

I see your point. the current voter registration list is available to anyone including political parties, and so are the deaths so presumably anyone given sufficient self or partisan driven interest or concern, can compare the lists and come up with the duplicates and hand it over to the secretary of state. The Democratic party can do it and self select republicans, and the republicans can do the same, I suppose. My guess is that even our most partisan folk, doubt this represents a significant risk even in close elections. Few people would bother themselves with changing Grandma's registration and getting the forged signature to look right, to change one vote per election and anything organized would be reported through the anonymous voter hotline before it got too far.