It's getting harder for criminals to commit election fraud...

[Michael Cole]

It's getting harder for criminals to commit election fraud......at least, in Pennsylvania.​

This effort and this ruling has absolutely nothing to do with Election Integrity, Election Security, or preventing Election Fraud.

This is all geared, the way all Republican legislation is and court actions in the States are, towards disenfranchising as many Independents and Democrats as possible.


A signature I can understand, for to match it with a Registration, but rejecting an unopened Ballot Return Envelope simply because it is missing a date or has an incorrect date it just the most insane notion I can think of!

Seriously? What is that date requirement going to prove? It proves nothing. The Election Authority already knows the dates when Absentee Ballots are mailed out, they already track when Absentee Ballots are returned, they know when the Election is, they know what date and time Absentee Ballots must be returned by.

Of what possible use is the Elector dating a Ballot Return Envelope?

If the signature matches, the ballot matches the election, what need is there for a date?

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/27/1233743082/pennsylvania-undated-ballots-ruling

In a statement, RNC Chair Michael Whatley called the ruling "a crucial victory for election integrity and voter confidence."

"Pennsylvanians deserve to feel confident in the security of their mail ballots, and this 3rd Circuit ruling roundly rejects unlawful left-wing attempts to count undated or incorrectly dated mail ballots," Whatley said. "Republicans will continue to fight and win for election integrity in courts across the country ahead of the 2024 election."

There it is. Here come the GOP to save Pennsylvanians from the evil left.

Civil rights lawyers see it differently.

Ari Savitzky, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union, which is representing the Pennsylvania State Conference of the NAACP, the lead plaintiff, said in a statement that they are "considering all of our options at this time."

"If this ruling stands, thousands of Pennsylvania voters could lose their vote over a meaningless paperwork error," said Mike Lee, executive director of the ACLU of Pennsylvania, in a statement. "The ballots in question in this case come from voters who are eligible and who met the submission deadline. In passing the Civil Rights Act, Congress put a guardrail in place to be sure that states don't erect unnecessary barriers that disenfranchise voters. It's unfortunate that the court failed to recognize that principle. Voters lose as a result of this ruling."

If a plain reading of this attorney's opinion is correct, the law will be struck down. There is nothing that necessitates any date be entered by any voter on any ballot. You may as well require 10 minutes of air accordion to submit a ballot. There's an idea. Fraudulent ballots using Trump memes.

 

[roguenuke]

Exactly. What if the postmark says 11/2/24, but the ballot says 12/2/24?

Honest mistake? Or ELECTION FRAUD!!!

Or 11/2/24 and they put 2/11/24, because the person was raised in another country, where day comes first.

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

Why?
When you vote in person in the Polling place are you given a test, on what date it is, that you must pass before you are issued a Ballot?

I don't understand the question -- those ballots are dated automatically, aren't they?

Not all were Republicans that were caught doing that, but via all the reporting the majority were.

Right.

Really stupid, frankly, this needs to be addressed as the Highest Court.
Dates are found on the Ballot Return Envelope, which is discarded and is only used for Signature verification.
Dates on those envelopes are not tallied, not counted, not kept, and not used to identify the Elector.

That's true, good point.

Yes. According to new reports approximately 10k ballots in 2022 were rejected because of date issues ON THE OUTER ENVELOPE THAT GETS DISCARDED.

True.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Democrats can't win without cheating.

MAGAts are delusional crybabies.

 

[hooligan]

No opportunity given to cure ballots without a date?

As long as the envelope is post marked by the deadline, why does the date on the ballot matter?

 

[Michael Cole]

Or 11/2/24 and they put 2/11/24, because the person was raised in another country, where day comes first.

I'm curious. Not asking you, but maybe @Mycroft can clue us in.

If I incorrectly date a ballot, but the date falls within the allowed range, does it still count? No one can possibly know when I signed and dated the ballot unless I post-date the ballot so that it appears signed after it was mailed. Then they would know. IOW, do poll workers crosscheck the postmarks with the handwritten dates? If the ballots still count, then I'd encourage everyone to post-date their ballots to two days after they are mailed. This would show the stupidity of the law.

 

[Michael Cole]

Democrats can't win without cheating.

That's nice.

Republicans can't win.

 

[TangoNoCash]

The last election proved that corrupt leftist judges can just allow the rat election authorities to subvert existing state laws. Nothing will change.

I’d guess you’re probably lying and a good portion of the judges were Republican. The law is the law. I know conservatives struggle with that. I’ll cut to the chase, do you have proof that all 60 of those judges were Democrats cause that sounds highly unlikely based on probability?

 

[slick]

Unconditionally supports Traitor Trump and continues to push the “Big Lie” despite there being zero evidence.

Dismissed.

The explosion of mail-in voting in heavily Democratic urban enclaves in the swing States, fueled by big CTCL money, played a significant—if not a decisive—role in Biden's victory in 2020.

Elections won on the basis of mail-in voting and ballot harvesting tell us far more about the ingenuity and logistical efficiency of ballot harvesters and election activists, than about candidate quality, voter enthusiasm, voter policy preferences, and whether voters are persuaded by political messaging.

 

[slick]

'All that ultimately matters in mass mail-in voting states is the number of absentee ballots that can be distributed, harvested, and ultimately counted in local election offices by partisan election activists over the weeks and months preceding election day. Through the strategic expansion of mass mail-in voting, Democrats are creating a new urban based, activist driven electoral playing field where they alone can win.

The funding and direction of election administration by highly partisan, demonstrably ideological private actors was virtually unknown in the American political system before the 2020 election.

 

[LouC]

shrug...

You are welcome to your opinion.

YES I AM.
It is a worthy and well considered opinion!

No doubt it will.

If it is, as I hope, and the court votes with sanity, logic, reasoned consideration I have no doubt it will conclude a missing Date or incorrect Date issue on a Ballot Return Envelope is not Constitutional to tossing the actual Ballot therein.

Now if, this should be decided along purely partisan lines then the SC would likely uphold the lunacy.

I said as much...but it will make it harder to do so.

Bullshit.
But for the sake of friendly discussion, explain how this ruling will prevent any absentee ballot election fraud.

Also, if you so desire, please do give us all the stats, from Pennsylvania, on how many attempted ballot frauds were thwarted by the law of rejection of improperly dated Ballot Return Envelopes.

No doubt you have those numbers and that data.

Elector???

Yes.

You know, people who vote to elect folks.

The Elector.

e·lec·tor
/əˈlektər,əˈlekˌtôr/
noun
1. a person who has the right to vote in an election.

We aren't talking about Electors.

We are talking about Electors.

We are talking about voters and this ruling won't disenfranchise any voter.

Yes, it will disenfranchise voters aka electors.

Of course the ruling will allow Pennsylvania Election Authorities to continue to disenfranchise electors merely for the absence of a date or an incorrect date on the outside of a Ballot Return Envelope.

Having the electors putting dates on the Ballot Return Envelope is, and should be, considered totally irrelevant towards determining whether a ballot is legitimate or not.

 

[LouC]

The explosion of mail-in voting in heavily Democratic urban enclaves in the swing States, fueled by big CTCL money, played a significant—if not a decisive—role in Biden's victory in 2020.

And there isn't one thing at all wrong with that, even if it was true, because all you are stating is, more people voted, they chose Biden.
Not a damned thing at all wrong with that.

Elections won on the basis of mail-in voting and ballot harvesting tell us far more about the ingenuity and logistical efficiency of ballot harvesters and election activists, than about candidate quality, voter enthusiasm, voter policy preferences, and whether voters are persuaded by political messaging.

The bugaboo about "ballot harvesting" from the 2020 Election proved a total non starter from start to finish.

No mass amounts of illegal ballot harvesting could be proven and in no way was any of the absentee ballots anywhere in that election seen as invalid or as attempts at fraud.

Some states still allow ballot harvesting.

 

[StarvedForChange]

...at least, in Pennsylvania.



Of course, the criminals aren't beaten yet. They still have other election fraud tactics they can use, such as stuffing drop boxes with thousands of bogus ballots. But this ruling demands that they handwrite a valid date on every single one of them.

"Voter fraud" was investigated, ad nauseum in 60 cases. All were thrown out. There was no "Democrat voter fraud". But keep trying to push the "Big Lie".

Also, "you are dismissed!".

 

[slick]

And there isn't one thing at all wrong with that, even if it was true, because all you are stating is, more people voted, they chose Biden.
Not a damned thing at all wrong with that.

The bugaboo about "ballot harvesting" from the 2020 Election proved a total non starter from start to finish.

No mass amounts of illegal ballot harvesting could be proven and in no way was any of the absentee ballots anywhere in that election seen as invalid or as attempts at fraud.

Some states still allow ballot harvesting.

Mass mail-in voting is not a voting rights matter. It is a matter of greatly expanding the power of leftist nonprofits and partisan election activists to manipulate elections and determine outcomes. Elections should reflect the will of actual voters, rather than the agendas of partisan nonprofit donors, and the fetishes of well funded election activists.

 

[Michael Cole]

The explosion of mail-in voting in heavily Democratic urban enclaves in the swing States, fueled by big CTCL money, played a significant—if not a decisive—role in Biden's victory in 2020.

Elections won on the basis of mail-in voting and ballot harvesting tell us far more about the ingenuity and logistical efficiency of ballot harvesters and election activists, than about candidate quality, voter enthusiasm, voter policy preferences, and whether voters are persuaded by political messaging.

32,982,211 mail ballots were cast in 2016. How does your theory apply to the 2016 election?

The percentage of mail ballots dropped from 2016 to 2018. Only slightly, but the Democrats took control of the House. That would seem to contradict any claim that mail ballots are being manipulated by Democrats.

Analysis of absentee/mail-in voting, 2016-2018

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Florida, Indiana, Wyoming, Utah, Nebraska, North Dakota. All red states with high percentage mail ballot use.

There just isn't any evidence whatsoever that mail voting is subject to fraud, much less mass fraud.

 

[US&THEM]

...at least, in Pennsylvania.



Of course, the criminals aren't beaten yet. They still have other election fraud tactics they can use, such as stuffing drop boxes with thousands of bogus ballots. But this ruling demands that they handwrite a valid date on every single one of them.

This huge!!! And also dumb the elderly forgot to “hand write” the date!!!!! GOP is so desperate it’s sad.

 

[US&THEM]

yawn...

Sorry, this isn't about me. It's about a court ruling.

You are dismissed.

Do you understand the ruling?

 

[StarvedForChange]

The last election proved that corrupt leftist judges can just allow the rat election authorities to subvert existing state laws. Nothing will change.

Umm. No. Many of the judges were Trump appointees. Nice try though!

Trump-Appointed Judges Balk at President’s Efforts to Overturn Election

'Judicial independence is alive and well,' declares one former jurist

www.voanews.com

But Bibas, 51, is not just another judge on another court. He is a Trump appointee on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit, with jurisdiction over Pennsylvania and two other states. A former member of the conservative Federalist Society, Bibas was appointed in 2017, one of 53 appellate judges the president has put on the federal bench since he took office, more than any other president since Jimmy Carter.

Bibas is not the only Republican-appointed federal judge to dismiss Trump’s claims of rampant voting fraud and tabulation irregularities. Steven Grimberg of the Northern District of Georgia and several other Republican-appointed judges, have ruled against the president.

 

[Michael Cole]

The fact is, ballots that don't have a legal date won't be counted in PA.

So, you're just making things up. I'm shocked.

 

[LouC]

I don't understand the question -- those ballots are dated automatically, aren't they?

What is at discussion is the courts ruling that Ballot Return Envelopes, in Pennsylvania, that have not been properly hand dated by the Elector, upon being received by the Election Authorities, said Envelopes and the cast ballots they contain, can be tossed in the trash with no consideration for processing and counting.

Right.

Yeah, such acts are not endemic to any one party.

That's true, good point.

Yeah. Glad you agree.

True.

Those 10K folks lost their say in that Election merely because of a missing or incorrect, irrelevant, date.

It mattered not if their Signature matched, if the date was missing or wrong or smudged.

It mattered not if their Signature matched and the ballot inside was totally legitimate, if the date was smudged and or missing or incorrect, their votes were not counted.

10K people didn't get their voices heard, because they wrote 11/5/22 instead of 11/5/2022, or some such.

Those partisan judges have their heads up their asses with this ruling.

Let us on to the SC and see if the Judges there can keep their noggins in the light of day!

 

[slick]

This huge!!! And also dumb the elderly forgot to “hand write” the date!!!!! GOP is so desperate it’s sad.

Let's not forgot what this thread is all about'

'It's getting harder for criminals to commit election fraud'​

But it will always be there because:

Most Democrats truly believe that Election Fraud Is A Human Right

 

[Felis Leo]

...at least, in Pennsylvania.



Of course, the criminals aren't beaten yet. They still have other election fraud tactics they can use, such as stuffing drop boxes with thousands of bogus ballots. But this ruling demands that they handwrite a valid date on every single one of them.

If I were to believe that voter fraud was this severe an issue, I just do not see how this is going to help. If I am to understand those pushing the 2020 voter fraud narrative, Donald Trump won a majority of votes in key districts across the United States. However, his victory was thwarted by a cabal of Democratic and Republican and Independent election officials at the local and state level working in tandem with one another to stuff the ballot boxes in Biden's favor, along with Courts (many of whom had judges appointed by Donald Trump) who refused to hear evidence on the matter.

If this narrative is correct and our election process is that severely compromised, these supposed safeguards will be and shall remain utterly ineffective, because it isn't the voters at large who are committing the fraud, but the election officials committing it. If I believed that the election was stolen in such a blatant fashion, then the dam has broken. The floodwater has rushed out. This measure is putting down a pebble into the hole hoping to staunch the flood. What does it matter if some ballots that are undated are thrown out of if the people in control of the ballots are so untrustworthy and can simply throw out valid ballots voting for candidates that they do not wish to win, or, just as bad, stuffing the ballot boxes with properly-dated ballots?

 

[EnchantedMuggle]

What is at discussion is the courts ruling that Ballot Return Envelopes, in Pennsylvania, that have not been properly hand dated by the Elector, upon being received by the Election Authorities, said Envelopes and the cast ballots they contain, can be tossed in the trash with no consideration for processing and counting.

Oh, I see.

Jesus.

hYeah, such acts are not endemic to any one party.

Yeah. Glad you agree.

Those 10K folks lost their say in that Election merely because of a missing or incorrect, irrelevant, date.

It mattered not if their Signature matched, if the date was missing or wrong or smudged.

It mattered not if their Signature matched and the ballot inside was totally legitimate, if the date was smudged and or missing or incorrect, their votes were not counted.

10K people didn't get their voices heard, because they wrote 11/5/22 instead of 11/5/2022, or some such.

Those partisan judges have their heads up their asses with this ruling.

Let us on to the SC and see if the Judges there can keep their noggins in the light of day!

Double Jesus.

 

[hooligan]

Elections should reflect the will of actual voters,

And throwing out ballots from legitimate voters because they forgot to put the date, or put the incorrect date, on the ballot accomplishes that how, exactly?

 

[LouC]

Mass mail-in voting is not a voting rights matter.

Of course it is.

It is a matter of greatly expanding the power of leftist nonprofits and partisan election activists to manipulate elections and determine outcomes.

Blah Blah Blah
ad nauseam
Un proven partisan BS.

Elections should reflect the will of actual voters,

So you are for the end of the Electoral College.
Good for you!

rather than the agendas of partisan nonprofit donors,

Blah Blah Blah
ad nauseam
Unproven partisan BS.

and the fetishes of well funded election activists.

Blah Blah Blah
ad nauseam
Unproven partisan BS.