Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?[W:11]

[DDA]

No, congress as a whole is NOT the most democratic, the House itself is. They represent small districts, their representation and election is far more connected to the will of their people. And Americans have always, and I do mean always, disliked and distrusted their federal branches of government. Once in a while we like a president, for a while, but congress, never. This is part of what I was trying to get you to understand before. It's something that Europeans generally don't get, we are a union of individual states, still very much uncomfortable with the federal.

Think of our federal government as the EU, our state and local governments as what you think of as your "government".

Firstly, I'm British, not European, and in Britain we have a parliamentary democracy. Although in political theory this is the most undemocratic form of democracy, that's our government and not the EU. And we're not a state in the EU. Even with the EU countries are saying that the france has only as much say in the world and it's own affairs as Florida?

I'm afraid you seriously don't understand the how things work in the EU and especially the EU UK relationship. Besides European generally have a positive view of Europe...despite it's faults and no where in Europe is its approval rating as disgraceful as the US congress.

Also I said congress AND house...Please don't misrepresent what I said

Anyway this is all by the by, the GOP are in trouble, they just won't acknowledge it. They did after 2012, but have seemed to have forgotten that lesson

 

[DDA]

No, congress as a whole is NOT the most democratic, the House itself is. They represent small districts, their representation and election is far more connected to the will of their people. And Americans have always, and I do mean always, disliked and distrusted their federal branches of government. Once in a while we like a president, for a while, but congress, never. This is part of what I was trying to get you to understand before. It's something that Europeans generally don't get, we are a union of individual states, still very much uncomfortable with the federal.

Think of our federal government as the EU, our state and local governments as what you think of as your "government".

Firstly, I'm British, not European, and in Britain we have a parliamentary democracy. Although in political theory this is the most undemocratic form of democracy, that's our government and not the EU. And we're not a state in the EU. Even with the EU countries are saying that the france has only as much say in the world and it's own affairs as Florida?

I'm afraid you seriously don't understand the how things work in the EU and especially the EU UK relationship. Besides European generally have a positive view of Europe...despite it's faults and no where in Europe is its approval rating as disgraceful as the US congress.

Also I said congress AND house...Please don't misrepresent what I said

Anyway this is all by the by, the GOP are in trouble, they just won't acknowledge it. They did after 2012, but have seemed to have forgotten that lesson

 

[DDA]

Actually, in reality, the opposite is true. Most political compromise is lose/lose, not win/win.

I know that's the system, I'm saying it should be changed. With what I'm saying would give (putting it in your terms) would give more wins

 

[Jack Hays]

Then why make you comments...

Because no one who calls himself a socialist will be elected President.

 

[polgara]

Sanders would lead the Dems to a defeat of epic proportions.

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

Many thoughts crossed my mind when I read your post, but here goes, keeping in mind that I haven't followed him as closely as I have Hillary's platform. Sanders's group likes the thought of government assistance on college and health care, more government assistance in general, more "income equality, " and more hope for the younger crowd, which seems to be his biggest supporters, that there will be decent paying jobs for them - all personal benefits to them. The biggest problem he seems to have is answering how these things are going to be paid for, but he hasn't changed his message.

Hillary seems to be wrapping herself in continuing BHO's agenda, which appeals to those who agree with said agenda, and that is a large base. I can't honestly say that either one of them would be my choice, since I tend to be more fiscally oriented - our debt of nearly $19 trillion dollars and climbing is very worrisome to me - and I know that debt always get paid, one way or another since nothing is really "free." I believe that people who have worked hard to get what they have are usually the ones who are asked to pay the bills when they come due, as they will, IMO, and we just can't afford what some would like to have. :shock:

 

[Jack Hays]

Greetings, Jack. :2wave:

Many thoughts crossed my mind when I read your post, but here goes, keeping in mind that I haven't followed him as closely as I have Hillary's platform. Sanders's group likes the thought of government assistance on college and health care, more government assistance in general, more "income equality, " and more hope for the younger crowd, which seems to be his biggest supporters, that there will be decent paying jobs for them - all personal benefits to them. The biggest problem he seems to have is answering how these things are going to be paid for, but he hasn't changed his message.

Hillary seems to be wrapping herself in continuing BHO's agenda, which appeals to those who agree with said agenda, and that is a large base. I can't honestly say that either one of them would be my choice, since I tend to be more fiscally oriented - our debt of nearly $19 trillion dollars and climbing is very worrisome to me - and I know that debt always get paid, one way or another since nothing is really "free." I believe that people who have worked hard to get what they have are usually the ones who are asked to pay the bills when they come due, as they will, IMO, and we just can't afford what some would like to have. :shock:

Greetings Polgara.:2wave:

Quite thoughtful. Sanders reminds me of Margaret Thatcher's great line about the problem with socialism: "Sooner or later you run out of other people's money."

 

[chromium]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

Now let's turn the lens around.

The largest demographics in the United States...white voters. The highest income, best educated and 'least' religious group...whites. The group most likely to get out and vote...whites.

The majority of whites, male AND female vote Republican.
The group that controls the Senate...GOP. The group that controls the House...GOP.

and yet the GOP loses the presidential election because 99% of black vote goes to dems...because the GOP openly despises them. Obama carried both elections without winning the white vote, even in 2008

GOP controls congress for diff reasons, such as the midterms tend to favor the party that does not have the presidency

 

[chromium]

Firstly, I'm British, not European, and in Britain we have a parliamentary democracy. Although in political theory this is the most undemocratic form of democracy, that's our government and not the EU. And we're not a state in the EU. Even with the EU countries are saying that the france has only as much say in the world and it's own affairs as Florida?

I'm afraid you seriously don't understand the how things work in the EU and especially the EU UK relationship. Besides European generally have a positive view of Europe...despite it's faults and no where in Europe is its approval rating as disgraceful as the US congress.

Also I said congress AND house...Please don't misrepresent what I said

Anyway this is all by the by, the GOP are in trouble, they just won't acknowledge it. They did after 2012, but have seemed to have forgotten that lesson

What he conveniently ignores is that the senate has approval rating lower than bubonic plague because it is by its own doing ****ING TERRIBLE. It can only undermine progress. If it stopped sucking so badly, its approval rating would go up. The GOP have the senate and be so impotent it just doesn't matter how many senate elections they win in wyoming

In that sense, yes, they are committing political suicide by taking credit for the most hated and worthless senate in american history

 

[chromium]

these are two examples, people in many districts have no problem with their congressman personally, they're simply disillusioned with congress as an institution, primarily because they don't understand how politics work,

i personally think it's because senate races aren't as publicized, so people get to the ballot and go with the name they're familiar with. It doesn't have to do with popularity so much as name recognition

 

[chromium]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

Everything seems to be working out perfectly for the long term success of the Republican Party. If nothing changes - and Trump is their nominee - he will be the human enema that purges the Republican Party of tea party idiots and right libertarians that have attempted to hijack the party over the last several years. The inglorious electoral defeat of Trump will make Barry Goldwater in 64 look like the Miami Dolphin team that won the Super Bowl and 17 straight. It will be that bad for the Republicans.

They then will have no choice but to flush the toilet after than enema and rebuild to save the party. And if they return to the center and a bit right of center as they were under Eisenhower and Nixon and even Reagan by comparison with todays right wing - they will be back on the road to success.

i really don't see how trump is anywhere near the center. He's a whore for corporatism and xenophobic to an extreme. I mean the KKK has seen a rise in membership and putin is supporting him. Does that sound centrist? Many only in that he doesn't invoke god and kim davis at every turn like some of his competition

The republican party will turn a new leaf only when they decide their strategy of profiting off hatred of minorities harms more than helps. They cannot do so, because they'd have to address real issues, such as wage stagnation, where they aren't exactly credible

In other words, they're ****ed until the middle class rises from the ashes

 

[Sweden]

Firstly, I'm British, not European, and in Britain we have a parliamentary democracy. Although in political theory this is the most undemocratic form of democracy, that's our government and not the EU. And we're not a state in the EU. Even with the EU countries are saying that the france has only as much say in the world and it's own affairs as Florida?

I'm afraid you seriously don't understand the how things work in the EU and especially the EU UK relationship. Besides European generally have a positive view of Europe...despite it's faults and no where in Europe is its approval rating as disgraceful as the US congress.

Also I said congress AND house...Please don't misrepresent what I said

Anyway this is all by the by, the GOP are in trouble, they just won't acknowledge it. They did after 2012, but have seemed to have forgotten that lesson

I find this comment confused and confusing. The UK IS a state in the EU DDA. Are you saying that the UK is not a state? Or that the UK is not in the EU? Who is it who is saying that France has no more say in the world than Florida? France has the power to send aircraft to attack ISIS; Florida does not.

I have a very positive view of Europe. And a very negative view of the European Union.

 

[DDA]

Because no one who calls himself a socialist will be elected President.

However, again, if Sanders won the DNC nomination, ALL recent polls are showing that he would beat EVERY GOP candidate in a Presidential race. YOU might hate the idea of someone calling himself a socialist being elected President, but not the rest of the US. The people are starting to move on from cold war dogma

 

[DDA]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

i really don't see how trump is anywhere near the center. He's a whore for corporatism and xenophobic to an extreme. I mean the KKK has seen a rise in membership and putin is supporting him. Does that sound centrist? Many only in that he doesn't invoke god and kim davis at every turn like some of his competition

The republican party will turn a new leaf only when they decide their strategy of profiting off hatred of minorities harms more than helps. They cannot do so, because they'd have to address real issues, such as wage stagnation, where they aren't exactly credible

In other words, they're ****ed until the middle class rises from the ashes

He's going to single handedly make the GOP lose by the biggest margins they have in decades if he's nominated

 

[DDA]

I find this comment confused and confusing. The UK IS a state in the EU DDA. Are you saying that the UK is not a state? Or that the UK is not in the EU? Who is it who is saying that France has no more say in the world than Florida? France has the power to send aircraft to attack ISIS; Florida does not.

I have a very positive view of Europe. And a very negative view of the European Union.

We both know that the US use the word "state" differently to the rest of the English speaking world. State is usually synonymous with country elsewhere, but the United States use it to also describe those 50 parts to their country as well.

If I said the Iranian or the Israeli state I would also mean the country of Iran or Israeli. However, if an American says "state", they might not be talking about am independent nation, but instead just one part of a larger country. So when he said the UK is a state of Europe, I might not take issue because state normally equals country, but when he then then compares the UK to a US state, I then take issue.

It sounds like demoting the statue of the UK in the world, like sating the UK to EU is like Bavaria to Germany...or Florida to the US.

However, I do realise that he was in his example saying that the local gov would be UK and the state would be the EU in his example. To which I believe our so called local gov has much more say than a state within the US.

Hence my France is not Florida example.

Does that make sense of my issue?

 

[Sweden]

We both know that the US use the word "state" differently to the rest of the English speaking world. State is usually synonymous with country elsewhere, but the United States use it to also describe those 50 parts to their country as well.

If I said the Iranian or the Israeli state I would also mean the country of Iran or Israeli. However, if an American says "state", they might not be talking about am independent nation, but instead just one part of a larger country. So when he said the UK is a state of Europe, I might not take issue because state normally equals country, but when he then then compares the UK to a US state, I then take issue.

It sounds like demoting the statue of the UK in the world, like sating the UK to EU is like Bavaria to Germany...or Florida to the US.

However, I do realise that he was in his example saying that the local gov would be UK and the state would be the EU in his example. To which I believe our so called local gov has much more say than a state within the US.

Hence my France is not Florida example.

Does that make sense of my issue?

Yes. Thank you.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

i really don't see how trump is anywhere near the center. He's a whore for corporatism and xenophobic to an extreme. I mean the KKK has seen a rise in membership and putin is supporting him. Does that sound centrist? Many only in that he doesn't invoke god and kim davis at every turn like some of his competition

The republican party will turn a new leaf only when they decide their strategy of profiting off hatred of minorities harms more than helps. They cannot do so, because they'd have to address real issues, such as wage stagnation, where they aren't exactly credible

In other words, they're ****ed until the middle class rises from the ashes

I agree with you that Trump is not a centrist. My point is that a huge Trump defeat will inspire the center of the party to purge itself of the dangerous right libertarians and tea party know nothings who helped make the hijacking of their party possible. Trump will serve as the excuse and focus of blame for others to take back control of the party in saner and more responsible hands after the November debacle over which Trump will preside.

 

[Sweden]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I agree with you that Trump is not a centrist. My point is that a huge Trump defeat will inspire the center of the party to purge itself of the dangerous right libertarians and tea party know nothings who helped make the hijacking of their party possible. Trump will serve as the excuse and focus of blame for others to take back control of the party in saner and more responsible hands after the November debacle over which Trump will preside.

Here's a question: Which is worse a rightist know nothing or a lefty know all? Btw is 'November debacle' code for Trumps win over Sanders?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

Here's a question: Which is worse a rightist know nothing or a lefty know all? Btw is 'November debacle' code for Trumps win over Sanders?

That would depend on if you value knowledge over ignorance.

The November debacle is anybody beating Trump and watching down ticket losses for the GOP as well.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I do live in the UK...for what its worth, you're welcome to check my Youtube, Twitter and Facebook page if you like...why would someone lie about that? Plus you do realise that there are more non Americans than Americans in the world don't you? So it would make sense that there are many non American users.

I don't care what someone who's not from the US thinks about American politics. The Parliament doesn't like Donald Trump? I don't care. Talk about hate speech, BTW. I mean The Parliament and its hate speech of Donald Trump. I thought hate speech was banned in the UK. Is hate speech in the UK like it is in the US where hate speech only applies to your ideological opponents? I THINK SO. Besides, these guys hailed the vote to give BO a Nobel Peace Prize just for being willing to change the US...and the UK has done a bang up job assimilating their immigrants..NOT. Like someone from the UK would care about an American's comments about the queen?

 

[DDA]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I don't care what someone who's not from the US thinks about American politics. The Parliament doesn't like Donald Trump? I don't care. Talk about hate speech, BTW. I mean The Parliament and its hate speech of Donald Trump. I thought hate speech was banned in the UK. Is hate speech in the UK like it is in the US where hate speech only applies to your ideological opponents? I THINK SO. Besides, these guys hailed the vote to give BO a Nobel Peace Prize just for being willing to change the US...and the UK has done a bang up job assimilating their immigrants..NOT. Like someone from the UK would care about an American's comments about the queen?

I think you should revise your "slightly conservative" statues haha

You can disagree with thinking the UK parliament is silly for discussing the ban of Trump, although, since you don't know...In the UK, if an online petition (on their site) gets more than 100000 signatures it has to be debated on in parliament...plus you clearly don't know what hate speech is...

You know what the Nobel Peace Prize is for? For promoting peace, since he said he was going to end two wars they gave it to him. it wasn't for "being willing to change the US"...regardless the prize wasn't deserved in the end, and has tainted the price now.

Sure we struggle to assimilate them but least we don't draw world wide attention for hating them

You obviously care enough to at least write your comment. However, if you're going to be so defensive and upset when someone critiques US politics, I advice you get off this site...and off the Internet.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I've seen a couple of comments mentioning that the Republican Party (and American conservatism in general) is not racist...with the intimation that just a few bad apples exist in the Republican/conservative group.

C'mon!

I will agree wholeheartedly that not every Republican and not every American conservative is an avowed racist...

...but EVERY avowed racist I personally know...or personally know about...appears to be a Republican and an American conservative.

And that says a lot more about the Republican Party and American conservatism...than the fact that not all are.

 

[Ntharotep]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I think you should revise your "slightly conservative" statues haha

You can disagree with thinking the UK parliament is silly for discussing the ban of Trump, although, since you don't know...In the UK, if an online petition (on their site) gets more than 100000 signatures it has to be debated on in parliament...plus you clearly don't know what hate speech is...

You know what the Nobel Peace Prize is for? For promoting peace, since he said he was going to end two wars they gave it to him. it wasn't for "being willing to change the US"...regardless the prize wasn't deserved in the end, and has tainted the price now.

Sure we struggle to assimilate them but least we don't draw world wide attention for hating them

You obviously care enough to at least write your comment. However, if you're going to be so defensive and upset when someone critiques US politics, I advice you get off this site...and off the Internet.

I'm going to end five wars in the next two years. You can contact me with the address to mail my prize to.
See what I did there?

As for world wide attention. Isn't there a thing going down where Germany wants to force other countries (or states?) in Europe to adopt its immigrant policies, including the UK?
In general I would like to see the numbers for other countries who take in immigrants compared to the U.S.


One thing I've noticed here is a lot of assuredness that Trump will lose. Until Trump began to gain popularity I said without any doubt that I believed, for good or ill, Clinton would be our next president. I'm not as sure now as I was then. I wonder if there will be the same kind of heart attacks involved on the Left as there was on the Right (when Obama was elected) if you guys are all wrong...

 

[DDA]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

Seems to me that you're buying all the Democratic mantra that the GOP is racist. Sure, some in the GOP is racist. But the majority is not. For example: For the majority of people against illegal immigration race has absolutely nothing to do with the issue but the Democratic propaganda machine uses this issue to promote the idea that race is the only reason that the members of the GOP are against illegal immigration. It's a BS claim made to garner votes. And it works for the Democratic base for many reasons.

You might of not seen one of my previous posts, but I specifically said that that I don't think most republicans are racist, nor the GOP leadership or even Trump himself. I just think the party is too willing to use language which is racists or xenophobic. Like the most mexican immigrants are rapists/murders and only some good people, supporting a ban on all muslims....don't you see how that goes to the negative image the GOP has at the mo

ps i'm not a democrat

 

[DDA]

Re: Is the GOP Commiting Political Suicide?

I'm going to end five wars in the next two years. You can contact me with the address to mail my prize to.
See what I did there?

As for world wide attention. Isn't there a thing going down where Germany wants to force other countries (or states?) in Europe to adopt its immigrant policies, including the UK?
In general I would like to see the numbers for other countries who take in immigrants compared to the U.S.


One thing I've noticed here is a lot of assuredness that Trump will lose. Until Trump began to gain popularity I said without any doubt that I believed, for good or ill, Clinton would be our next president. I'm not as sure now as I was then. I wonder if there will be the same kind of heart attacks involved on the Left as there was on the Right (when Obama was elected) if you guys are all wrong...

errm, no, you get nothing, because you're not someone who realistically could do anything

so far most polls show a clinton win v trump in an election...sanders would beat him by 15 points

 

[Jack Hays]

However, again, if Sanders won the DNC nomination, ALL recent polls are showing that he would beat EVERY GOP candidate in a Presidential race. YOU might hate the idea of someone calling himself a socialist being elected President, but not the rest of the US. The people are starting to move on from cold war dogma

It's not a matter of Cold War dogma. Socialists were getting stomped in national elections long before the Cold War. (See: Norman Thomas.)