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What is Gender

Elvira said:
I am waiting for the day when I can say I am a millionaire and voila...it's true just because I say it is...:2razz:
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That day has arrived. You are free to say that you are a millionaire. It's perfectly legal
 
rocket88 said:
Is it biological or a social construct? You need to make up your mind. Why does someone have to live within the social construct of being Male just because of biology?
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Gender in modern parlance is not sex and has nothing to do with biology. I'm not the one that's making up these definitions.
 
sangha said:
That day has arrived. You are free to say that you are a millionaire. It's perfectly legal
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Sure, I can say anything but is it real? My bank account says NO...my pocketbook says NO...I am rich in other ways, though, that money cannot begin to compare...I'm just not a millionaire, no matter how many times I SAY/THINK/BELIEVE I am...not gonna happen...
 
Elvira said:
Sure, I can say anything but is it real? My bank account says NO...my pocketbook says NO...I am rich in other ways, though, that money cannot begin to compare...I'm just not a millionaire, no matter how many times I SAY/THINK/BELIEVE I am...not gonna happen...
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Who cares what your bank accounts say?

FIGHT THE POWER!!
 
Simpletruther said:
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.

So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?

It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.


For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.


It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.


but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
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This does seem to touch on the dichotomy. On one hand we are to treat people as equals. But, on another we are supposed to accept that someone is equally different. I call it individuality run amok. But, meh...to each his/her own. :shrug:
 
rocket88 said:
Gender norms don't mean anything. My grandfather thought I was weird because I would cook dinner for my ex wife (I preferred it to starving, but it was fun). I was a stay at home father for a short time. Everybody has to live their own truth. My truth isn't your truth, and your truth isn't someone else's truth.
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You are still male though. Cooking, staying at home with children, or anything else don't change that.
 
Fishking said:
Gender in modern parlance is not sex and has nothing to do with biology. I'm not the one that's making up these definitions.
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Ok, then why are people upset about people changing their social construct?
 
Those that claim gender has nothing to do with biological sex seem to ignore that transgender people dress in clothing designed specifically for biological sexes.

Womens underwear, bras, clothing etc were designed not to cater to the feelings of women, but to cater to their physical bodies. A man who feels like a woman has no reason to wear women's clothing because women's clothing is based around the biological sex of women. The same is true for men's clothing. There's nothing masculine about wearing regular men's underwear. It's just called common sense since having tight, closed-off fabric squashing your genitals is uncomfortable and dangerous.

In other words, a lot of the notions associated with gender that have often been passed off as a mere social construct are actually the result of millions of years of human evolution. Society didn't just one day decide that having muscles and a thick beard is masculine. Traditionally, men were the hunters and fighters in their tribes so this led to an increase in testosterone - which is what's responsible for muscle production and hair growth.

This can be applied anywhere. Bathrooms - they weren't made to help women feel more girly, or men feel more masculine and brutish. They were designed to help men and women take a dump more hygienically and privately without feeling uncomfortable over exposing themselves. Trans people have no business (or right) to use the bathroom of the sex they feel like. Bathrooms are designed around physical considerations so if you have a penis or are attracted to women you have no right to be in there. I'm on board with people feeling like whatever the hell they want to be. But keep your imaginary playtime to your imagination and don't force it upon society.

Tl;DR - every "social construct" of gender is more or less based around biological and evolutionary traits of men and women, which means they are not social constructs at all.
 
Simpletruther said:
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.

So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?

It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.


For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.


It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.


but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
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Gender is the conceptual framework we provide, which brings with it our cultural preconceptions about what defines gender irregardless of the validity of those cultural standards. I think that's the first thing to be noted in regards to an analysis of this question, we are not blank slate observers here, but have massive cultural baggage.

Gender I think is clearly something that exists across various scales. What I mean by this, is that it is more than just the cultural definitions and practices that we employ, but those are certainly significant factors. It also has to deal with fetal development, the innate genetics, hormonal levels, early childhood experiences, and who knows what else. Human beings don't have a blank slate concerning their behavior, whether male or female, I think anyone who has had small children has witnessed the innate differences that manifest in boys in girls. However, the traits of male and female are not perfectly isolated biologically speaking, why shouldn't we expect human diversity to express variable levels of these traits in men and women, which often interact with other factors to produce gender dysphoria.
 
Crusader13 said:
Those that claim gender has nothing to do with biological sex seem to ignore that transgender people dress in clothing designed specifically for biological sexes.

Womens underwear, bras, clothing etc were designed not to cater to the feelings of women, but to cater to their physical bodies. A man who feels like a woman has no reason to wear women's clothing because women's clothing is based around the biological sex of women. The same is true for men's clothing. There's nothing masculine about wearing regular men's underwear. It's just called common sense since having tight, closed-off fabric squashing your genitals is uncomfortable and dangerous.

In other words, a lot of the notions associated with gender that have often been passed off as a mere social construct are actually the result of millions of years of human evolution. Society didn't just one day decide that having muscles and a thick beard is masculine. Traditionally, men were the hunters and fighters in their tribes so this led to an increase in testosterone - which is what's responsible for muscle production and hair growth.

This can be applied anywhere. Bathrooms - they weren't made to help women feel more girly, or men feel more masculine and brutish. They were designed to help men and women take a dump more hygienically and privately without feeling uncomfortable over exposing themselves. Trans people have no business (or right) to use the bathroom of the sex they feel like. Bathrooms are designed around physical considerations so if you have a penis or are attracted to women you have no right to be in there. I'm on board with people feeling like whatever the hell they want to be. But keep your imaginary playtime to your imagination and don't force it upon society.

Tl;DR - every "social construct" of gender is more or less based around biological and evolutionary traits of men and women, which means they are not social constructs at all.
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I can't disagree with the premise of the opening paragraphs: gender-specific clothes are specifically designed for biology, not for how one feels.
 
rocket88 said:
Ok, then why are people upset about people changing their social construct?
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One reason is Because some want to use their changed social construct to change social norms Thst make people uncomfortable, like men being in the girls room.

I think very few people care if s person changes their social construct, or call themselves a woman or a man. Some domcsre about the biological segregation they are accustomed to.
 
rocket88 said:
Ok, then why are people upset about people changing their social construct?
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I'm not upset about it. The problem is they then use that to be treated as the opposite sex (e.g. transwomen participating in women's sports). They say "transgender" but that's not what it is actually being talked about and not what is actually being pushed for. It's "transsexual" that should be the term used.

I've already explained in previous posts that this isn't about people not wanting to fall in line with gender norms. We had terms for those types of people already. It was words like tomboy and metrosexual. They are actually talking about feeling like they are in "the wrong body", which is the biological sex.

In other words, the leftists position on gender is backasswards and doesn't follow form of congruent logic.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
I think you mean sexuality and dominance/submissive hierarchy. Gender has was always a nice way of saying "Does the baby have a penis or a vagina?" SJW's have hijacked the words sorta like how they like to call heterosexual white males "cisgenders" because it sounds more evil.

Gender is about masculinity and femininity which are bad words for defining how someone behaves. It pertains more to dominance/submissiveness in a backhanded way.
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dirtpoorchris said:
I think you mean sexuality and dominance/submissive hierarchy.
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No I don't. Sexuality is one's orientation or what they are attracted too. It has nothing to to do with what attracts you.

Gender has was always a nice way of saying "Does the baby have a penis or a vagina?" SJW's have hijacked the words sorta like how they like to call heterosexual white males "cisgenders" because it sounds more evil.
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In an earlier post I noted how sex and gender have been synonymous for a long time. But as we are learning more, the body and the identity are not always matched. So language is evolving, as it does, to reflect this new knowledge. Sex now refers to the body one is born with/genetically is, while gender now refers to identity. And cisgendered is not limited to males, whites, or straights. A gay man is cisgendered, a black woman is cisgendered. Trans and cis are two side of a coin, much as male and female are. And yes, for a while at least, a lot of words we are used while change precise meaning based upon context.

Gender is about masculinity and femininity which are bad words for defining how someone behaves. It pertains more to dominance/submissiveness in a backhanded way.
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I disagree, especially when there are, for example, women who act very masculine, as currently commonly viewed, and yet identify as women. Their gender doesn't change because of how they act or behave. Their sex doesn't change because of how they act or behave.

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Crusader13 said:
Those that claim gender has nothing to do with biological sex seem to ignore that transgender people dress in clothing designed specifically for biological sexes.
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Unless in a more formal setting, many women dress just like men every day.

I live in cowboy boots and jeans and often simple T-shirts/button downs.

Lots more women live in jeans and sneakers. Sometimes shirts are a little more feminized, true, but also very often not.
 
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