We are no longer the United States of America

[Hypothetical]

The real problem is that concentration of wealth/power attracts amoral assholes.

And those assholes set the tone for everything.

Everybody else at that level goes along with it to protect THEMSLEVES from the assholes.

And since neurochemical addiction is in play, to varying degrees, rationalization is the go to.("compassion" "cooperation" are also rewarded and are what anthropologists are attributing our success as a species to, more every year).

That and "hiding" behind the corporation.

Think about the fact that people form corporations SPECIFICALLY to shield themselves from liability for the actions of the corporation, yet claim full "ownership" when it comes to spending that corporations money electing favorable politicians.

In one breath saying "we ARE the corporation" when it comes to political spending", and "NO! Its not US, its the corporation" when the corporation gets caught doing something wrong in the next.

right i agree we need to fight corporatism to an degree. it does make an unfair playing field. I'm all for that. but with practicality and compromise... because in the end, in a big way, those same people do drive the economy for us all. we need to root out the real assholes and make sure the decent people are able to make their share for taking the risks they have to take to win.


IF the democrats could truly focus on THAT type of scenario with practicality I would be on their side... but it also takes making sure the politicians you hire are ACTUALLY Willing to follow through, and not just there for the 'D' beside their name.

 

[trixare4kids]

I would be more willing to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that the rich get so many advantages that nothing else is possible to be done. In addition, why are we spending so much money on Defense? We are already bigger than the next 10 countries combined and yet our Defense budget continues to expand and the programs to help the populace get cut.

Shouldn't we be doing something that is beneficial to all?, not just the rich and our emotional idea of overly protecting ourselves. As it is, we as a society under these present conditions are responsible for more deaths from a lack of help than deaths we would prevent from lowering our defense budget.

Let's be real about the problems facing us because if we are not, we will continue to be unfair to a large portion of our population.

There goes that "unfair" word. :roll:
As Americans, the Declaration of Independence says we are all guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Time for you to learn that we are not guaranteed an equal outcome.

 

[Hypothetical]

There goes that "unfair" word. :roll:
As Americans, the Declaration of Independence says we are all guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Time for you to learn that we are not guaranteed an equal outcome.

true, but neither should ANY law or statute have anything to do with making the playing field unfair. if people make a lot of money there should be no loopholes, they should pay their taxes. Corporations are not people, etc, etc..

politicians should not be allowed to borrow from the Social security fund

 

[woodsman]

I stopped reading about midway because you were doing exactly the same thing you are complaining about..........re-warmed and re-phrased bullets.

You are right in one thing, the problem is clearly defined and the only thing that can be done is to re-warm and re-phrase things as there is nothing new to say. Nonetheless, for this to change, someone has to "take the lead" and try to do something about it. I hate to re-hash things but I do remember that Obama tried but the Republicans would not bite at all (I don't know if it was bias or not but they didn't) and one thing leads to another and another and another and until someone says "no more", it will continue and we will re-warm and re-phrase the problem.

So what do you suggest? The Democrats saying "I give up, you are right?". Given that you are not willing to do that yourself, I doubt they will.

Solutions are available but unfortunately those solutions do not favor either side so the fight continues, and continues, and continues until a hero shows up, someone like Lincoln or Rooseveldt or Kennedy. Trump is certainly not a hero.

Thanks for your reply but it was worthless as far as finding a solution is concerned.

Curious, what are your solutions if so readably available? Take note, I’m not complaining, just stating and sharing the political reality which seems to escape you other than the disingenuous “feel good” nonsense.

BTW, for someone that didn’t read my post in its entirety you sure had an opinion on the post as a whole, disingenuous much?

So, we await these magical solutions.

 

[PleasantValley]

The past 2 years have certainly cemented the fact that we are no longer the United States of America. The Republican and Democratic Ideals are now so separate to each other that staying 1 nation does not make sense because we will not be able to go forward and accomplish anything of note for the still American public. As it is now, this will not change. Either one side wins or the other. Winning as a nation for all is not the desired result, it is winning for the party platform.

Caring for others is now called Socialism. Trying to spread the wealth the U.S. as a whole has built is now called Socialism. Wanting to protect the environment and protect the populace from greedy and unscrupulous people is now called Socialism. Wanting Health Care for everyone is now called Socialism.

The Republicans are all about me, me, me, and me. They are all about individuality and not a family. They are all about money and economic stability and not about emotional stability. They are about "the best shall win, no matter how it's done". It is no longer about Justice but about who is the strongest, the biggest bully.

I am sorry, but that is not the America that I was born to. The America I was born to was about equality for all, justice for all, helping others (nations and people) for a better future for all.

All is now Socialist and Me is now the way to go.

...and to think for a minute there I thought your post was about being an independent.
It was only an attack on Republicans.
You said not one bad thing about Democrats.
This means you are PARTISAN. A Democrat partisan.

I will have to thank you for leaving out the negative adjectives, the raw emotion, and the suffering children in your partisan propaganda piece.
Thank you for that, at least.

 

[Acadia]

I hate to argue with you but there is no opportunity and equality when the rich get all the breaks and the poor get none. When money can buy justice and the poor are the ones that end up in jail. That is not equality or opportunity. Once in your life you should go and live with a black family in the slums where they are born and see what kind of opportunities and equality they have.

If you never place yourself in someone else's shoes you will never understand. As such, your post is an affront to fairness. You can certainly talk good sh** but until you live in sh** without any fault of your own, you don't talk truth.

See, now your anger and unwillingness to LISTEN to the other side is showing. Sadly, I would be shocked if you kept your deceptively civil tone which you started this conversation, but when it didn't turn into a validating echo chamber, you resort to thinly-veiled foul language.
Here's the truth on your diatribe. Not all black Americans are born in slums, so your assertion is the HEIGHT of bigotry. Further, Trump is working on a Prison Sentencing Reform Bill and will do more for the unfair sentencing of black criminals than Obama, even if he had 8 MORE years.
Blacks were WORSE off after Obama and that's the opinion on BOTH sides of the aisle. He was a great failure to them.
Finally, I'll just bet that you voted for a woman who called black people SUPER PREDATORS.

 

[Acadia]

There goes that "unfair" word. :roll:
As Americans, the Declaration of Independence says we are all guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Time for you to learn that we are not guaranteed an equal outcome.

We're also not guaranteed the right to not be offended.
Our government recognized that they should NEVER infringe on our natural rights. Leftists believe the government GIVES us rights and all sorts of goodies for free. NO. The government was created to exist around US. Not US around THEM.

 

[trixare4kids]

We're also not guaranteed the right to not be offended.
Our government recognized that they should NEVER infringe on our natural rights. Leftists believe the government GIVES us rights and all sorts of goodies for free. NO. The government was created to exist around US. Not US around THEM.

It's really pitiful they haven't learned this yet.
I have to wonder where they received their basic civics lessons? :shock:

 

[X Factor]

Please note that I did NOT attribute a party or ideology when I condemned the manipulation industries.

Nor did I claim the left never did anything wrong.

I DID say that Republican Logan's/conservatives have taken every opportunity to slap democrats/progressives every single chance they get.

Gleefully. Spitefully.

For years.

I said your argument was that the left is in no way responsible for the division. Wasn’t that what you told me? Must be nice to see no blame on your side.

 

[Luckyone]

Care all you want, spend your time, cash, and energy how you like.

Forcing others to get behind your causes rather than convincing them is plain evil and tyrannical.

Stop stealing....

Congratulation on a sane governor in Florida not formally under investigation.

You did not answer the question. Not willing to get on the board with your own thoughts about caring for others, spreading the wealth, offering emotional stability meaning that we have to give up freedom and liberty. After all, you said it. Defend it with facts or with your own opinion.

 

[Luckyone]

When you use extreme descriptions like "all", "none", "never"....It is a high probability sign that you are in the wrong. Truth is very important. Perhaps the most important thing we have.

So if I say that the rich get most of the breaks and the poor get less, would you agree with that?

As far as placing yourself in other people's shoes, those that you complain about, have you ever done it?

 

[akyron]

So if I say that the rich get most of the breaks and the poor get less, would you agree with that?

As far as placing yourself in other people's shoes, those that you complain about, have you ever done it?

Of course.

 

[Luckyone]

well I've never used Obamacare due to employer healthcare, but where you on the rolls? everything i have heard indicates it was a flipping mess... and certainly not a real iteration of single payer.

Obamacare was flawed to begin with but the Republicans did not want it at all and the Democrats wanted some form of health care for everyone so they passed it, hoping that they could work on the flaws as it was used. Nonetheless, if anything ever needed bi-partisan support it was Obamacare and the Republicans wanted nothing to do with it so it was never repaired.

What should have happened is both parties working on it because never before had any program been put out for the American Public that actually addressed the Health Care Program, especially pre-existing conditions.

If there was ever a program that should have gotten bi-partisan work it was this as it was good for the population. If ever there was a sign of a party not willing to compromise, it was Obamacare.

 

[Luckyone]

There goes that "unfair" word. :roll:
As Americans, the Declaration of Independence says we are all guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Time for you to learn that we are not guaranteed an equal outcome.

Equal outcome?

I don't understand what you mean because life will always have unfairness in one way or the other but the idea is to work on being fair if possible. Are you suggesting that the rich don't get unfair advantages and the poor unfair disadvantages? Are you saying because life is unfair that we should be unfair as well and to begin with?

 

[Nap]

The past 2 years have certainly cemented the fact that we are no longer the United States of America. The Republican and Democratic Ideals are now so separate to each other that staying 1 nation does not make sense because we will not be able to go forward and accomplish anything of note for the still American public. As it is now, this will not change. Either one side wins or the other. Winning as a nation for all is not the desired result, it is winning for the party platform.

Caring for others is now called Socialism. Trying to spread the wealth the U.S. as a whole has built is now called Socialism. Wanting to protect the environment and protect the populace from greedy and unscrupulous people is now called Socialism. Wanting Health Care for everyone is now called Socialism.

The Republicans are all about me, me, me, and me. They are all about individuality and not a family. They are all about money and economic stability and not about emotional stability. They are about "the best shall win, no matter how it's done". It is no longer about Justice but about who is the strongest, the biggest bully.

I am sorry, but that is not the America that I was born to. The America I was born to was about equality for all, justice for all, helping others (nations and people) for a better future for all.

All is now Socialist and Me is now the way to go.

Which is why the system was setup to limit the power of the federal government and let the states govern themselves. As long as both parties continue to try and push their ideals on the entire country rather than at the state level it will only get worse.

Also, placing the individual above the collective is what this country was founded on and the core essence of Liberalism. I just wish people that call themselves Liberals would figure that out.

 

[Luckyone]

Curious, what are your solutions if so readably available? Take note, I’m not complaining, just stating and sharing the political reality which seems to escape you other than the disingenuous “feel good” nonsense.

BTW, for someone that didn’t read my post in its entirety you sure had an opinion on the post as a whole, disingenuous much?

So, we await these magical solutions.

There is a magical solution but it requires change on both sides of the coin. Hero's do not sign up for elections given that to get enough support to even begin the election process they have to give in to special interest groups that have the money or the wherewithal to stop the support needed. As such, politicians have to sell themselves before they even get started. This is true on both sides of the coin. Trump got elected because he was able to by-pass the special interest groups but the problem is that he has his own interests in mind and it certainly is not the benefit of all but the benefit of one (him) and whoever helped him get there may get some crumbs in the process. Nonetheless, those that are not on Trump's list of people to help (which is about 3/4 of the U.S. population) get sc**ed.

As such, we need to open the door for hero's to step up to be elected. Perhaps a government fund that is given to the candidates equally to run that is the same for all and does not require or need others to support them economically.

Otherwise, the problems will continue with the shrewdest, most corrupt, and most supported by special interest groups stepping up to be elected. The system of elections is rotten from the core. Not only are special interest groups involved, but also gerrymandering and voter suppression occurs, which means that often the best person for the job does not win. As long as this continues, things will get progressively worse until we become a dictatorship within the quotation marks of a democracy.

 

[Luckyone]

...and to think for a minute there I thought your post was about being an independent.
It was only an attack on Republicans.
You said not one bad thing about Democrats.
This means you are PARTISAN. A Democrat partisan.

I will have to thank you for leaving out the negative adjectives, the raw emotion, and the suffering children in your partisan propaganda piece.
Thank you for that, at least.

"it was only an attack on Republicans" and "this means you are Partisan" is true but only to a certain point. The point is that working together is not the purview of someone that thinks me, me, me. The Republican platform is mostly about me, me, me and less government rather than more government, as such, when talking about working together the first person to be criticized is the person that is saying "me, me, me".

Secondly, I am partisan to working together, which is the purview of the Democrats which I guess would put me in that category. The reality is though, that working together should not only be a Democratic platform but a platform that we should all work for.

 

[What if...?]

right i agree we need to fight corporatism to an degree. it does make an unfair playing field. I'm all for that. but with practicality and compromise... because in the end, in a big way, those same people do drive the economy for us all. we need to root out the real assholes and make sure the decent people are able to make their share for taking the risks they have to take to win.


IF the democrats could truly focus on THAT type of scenario with practicality I would be on their side... but it also takes making sure the politicians you hire are ACTUALLY Willing to follow through, and not just there for the 'D' beside their name.

The rub is, there isn't a "left" or "right" anymore.

Those have just become the names of competing groups of monied interests.

And I just tend democrat becilause they have a better philosophy as the the care and feeding of their livestock.

Us. We are their livestock.

I think it would also be a good idea to re-examine the economic system that makes most of us commodities to be used by a few of us at the least cost and discarded when they are done with us.

That's the third world model. The old aristocrat/peasant model.

To quote Morty from Rick and Morty:

"That just sounds like slavery with extra steps."

 

[Luckyone]

See, now your anger and unwillingness to LISTEN to the other side is showing. Sadly, I would be shocked if you kept your deceptively civil tone which you started this conversation, but when it didn't turn into a validating echo chamber, you resort to thinly-veiled foul language.
Here's the truth on your diatribe. Not all black Americans are born in slums, so your assertion is the HEIGHT of bigotry. Further, Trump is working on a Prison Sentencing Reform Bill and will do more for the unfair sentencing of black criminals than Obama, even if he had 8 MORE years.
Blacks were WORSE off after Obama and that's the opinion on BOTH sides of the aisle. He was a great failure to them.
Finally, I'll just bet that you voted for a woman who called black people SUPER PREDATORS.

I had to totally ignore your post given that you really went off-track.

All those words for what? you did not address your original post about equality for all, you did not address your post about fairness and you did not address my post about money inequality. You did address my post for unwillingness to listen. Can you explain exactly where in my post there was unwillingness to listen? What did you say that I did not listen to and address?

 

[Luckyone]

Of course.

That's life is your answer? If you really believe that then why are you complaining about anything?

 

[woodsman]

There is a magical solution but it requires change on both sides of the coin. Hero's do not sign up for elections given that to get enough support to even begin the election process they have to give in to special interest groups that have the money or the wherewithal to stop the support needed. As such, politicians have to sell themselves before they even get started. This is true on both sides of the coin. Trump got elected because he was able to by-pass the special interest groups but the problem is that he has his own interests in mind and it certainly is not the benefit of all but the benefit of one (him) and whoever helped him get there may get some crumbs in the process. Nonetheless, those that are not on Trump's list of people to help (which is about 3/4 of the U.S. population) get sc**ed.

As such, we need to open the door for hero's to step up to be elected. Perhaps a government fund that is given to the candidates equally to run that is the same for all and does not require or need others to support them economically.

Otherwise, the problems will continue with the shrewdest, most corrupt, and most supported by special interest groups stepping up to be elected. The system of elections is rotten from the core. Not only are special interest groups involved, but also gerrymandering and voter suppression occurs, which means that often the best person for the job does not win. As long as this continues, things will get progressively worse until we become a dictatorship within the quotation marks of a democracy.

Well, you didn’t come forth with any magic solutions so let me help you, Firstly, we need to stop any lobbyist or lobbying of our elected officials by law. Campaign financing can only come from individual private sources from within that state, no outside funds. As you suggest, grants or funds from the government could/should be part of the campaign financing and would be needed.

 

[PleasantValley]

"it was only an attack on Republicans" and "this means you are Partisan" is true but only to a certain point. The point is that working together is not the purview of someone that thinks me, me, me. The Republican platform is mostly about me, me, me and less government rather than more government, as such, when talking about working together the first person to be criticized is the person that is saying "me, me, me".

Secondly, I am partisan to working together, which is the purview of the Democrats which I guess would put me in that category. The reality is though, that working together should not only be a Democratic platform but a platform that we should all work for.

You can not work together with anyone if you say they are to blame for all the ills of the country.
Which is exactly what your post did.
If you were truly interested in working with Republicans you would not have made such a one-sided post and pointing the finger of blame at them.

How many conversations end in mutual agreement if you start it off with "You guys suck and are to blame for everything bad".
You need to get out more and interact with more people if you think this is how you intend to work with anyone.
It shuts down conversation immediately.
But you do not seem to know this fact.
That is why I suggest you log off and get out and interact more with people and learn some interpersonal skills first.

Your post shows you have none.

 

[Luckyone]

You can not work together with anyone if you say they are to blame for all the ills of the country.
Which is exactly what your post did.
If you were truly interested in working with Republicans you would not have made such a one-sided post and pointing the finger of blame at them.

How many conversations end in mutual agreement if you start it off with "You guys suck and are to blame for everything bad".
You need to get out more and interact with more people if you think this is how you intend to work with anyone.
It shuts down conversation immediately.
But you do not seem to know this fact.
That is why I suggest you log off and get out and interact more with people and learn some interpersonal skills first.

Your post shows you have none.

Your post is funny because you think that I hold grudges. I don't. The fact I throw blame around is just a way to assign the changes that I believe need to be made but does not stop me personally working with the other side.

Perfect example of this is your own hero Trump that absolutely insulted and called Ted Cruz the worst of the worst and even insulted his family and then they became buddy-buddies.

Pointing the negatives and the blame should only be mapping out the problem. If both people are adults and are interested overall in going forward in finding a solution, you get past that and work together.

Its funny and perplexing that you think that way, given the example your own hero has given.

Last but not least, your comment about "I suggest you get some interpersonal skill first" is hilarious. You mean like Trump has?

 

[Into the Night]

The past 2 years have certainly cemented the fact that we are no longer the United States of America. The Republican and Democratic Ideals are now so separate to each other that staying 1 nation does not make sense because we will not be able to go forward and accomplish anything of note for the still American public. As it is now, this will not change. Either one side wins or the other. Winning as a nation for all is not the desired result, it is winning for the party platform.

Caring for others is now called Socialism. Trying to spread the wealth the U.S. as a whole has built is now called Socialism. Wanting to protect the environment and protect the populace from greedy and unscrupulous people is now called Socialism. Wanting Health Care for everyone is now called Socialism.

The Republicans are all about me, me, me, and me. They are all about individuality and not a family. They are all about money and economic stability and not about emotional stability. They are about "the best shall win, no matter how it's done". It is no longer about Justice but about who is the strongest, the biggest bully.

I am sorry, but that is not the America that I was born to. The America I was born to was about equality for all, justice for all, helping others (nations and people) for a better future for all.

All is now Socialist and Me is now the way to go.

It is the Democrats that want to destroy the traditional family. They encourage new definitions for marriage itself, encourage me, me, me because "I'm a victim". They classify and subdivide society and encourage bigotry and racism, the steal from the productive members of our society to give to unproductive members of our society, they want to control every aspect of your life, including what your family will even look like. It is Democrats that want to destroy the Constitution and the rule of law, and replace it with oligarchies and fascism.

It is the Republicans (actually conservatives) that want to restrict government overreach and return it to constitutional government. It is the Republicans wanting to support the traditional family. It is the Republicans that want to get government out of the way of families being able to support themselves economically. It is Republicans that support capitalism, the only economic system that can create wealth. It is the Republicans that want to keep charity voluntary, for involuntary 'charity' is not charity. It's slavery and tyranny. It is Republicans that support the rule of law, not of violent protests that kill cops and vandalize businesses.

It is the Democrat and liberals you will find holding up the banner of lies, special privileges for the 'elite', and the way of the Nazis, the communists, the Maoists, and other dictators and oligarchies.
It is the conservative Republican you will find holding up the banner of truth, justice and the American way. The way of the Constitution. The way of the rule of law. The way of voluntary charity, and true charity at that...one of the highest forms of love there is.

Trump may be loud, he may be obnoxious, but he speaks his mind uncut, unedited. He is trying to secure our borders, to restore some rule of law to turn back what the liberals have done over the last many decades. It is trying to discourage racism. He is calling out the press for the lies and distortions they make. He stands for America. He does not cut any slack to anyone that doesn't. Personally, I find it very refreshing in a President. He is not a product of the media. They didn't make him. They can't break him.

 

[Luckyone]

It is the Democrats that want to destroy the traditional family. They encourage new definitions for marriage itself, encourage me, me, me because "I'm a victim". They classify and subdivide society and encourage bigotry and racism, the steal from the productive members of our society to give to unproductive members of our society, they want to control every aspect of your life, including what your family will even look like. It is Democrats that want to destroy the Constitution and the rule of law, and replace it with oligarchies and fascism.

It is the Republicans (actually conservatives) that want to restrict government overreach and return it to constitutional government. It is the Republicans wanting to support the traditional family. It is the Republicans that want to get government out of the way of families being able to support themselves economically. It is Republicans that support capitalism, the only economic system that can create wealth. It is the Republicans that want to keep charity voluntary, for involuntary 'charity' is not charity. It's slavery and tyranny. It is Republicans that support the rule of law, not of violent protests that kill cops and vandalize businesses.

It is the Democrat and liberals you will find holding up the banner of lies, special privileges for the 'elite', and the way of the Nazis, the communists, the Maoists, and other dictators and oligarchies.
It is the conservative Republican you will find holding up the banner of truth, justice and the American way. The way of the Constitution. The way of the rule of law. The way of voluntary charity, and true charity at that...one of the highest forms of love there is.

Trump may be loud, he may be obnoxious, but he speaks his mind uncut, unedited. He is trying to secure our borders, to restore some rule of law to turn back what the liberals have done over the last many decades. It is trying to discourage racism. He is calling out the press for the lies and distortions they make. He stands for America. He does not cut any slack to anyone that doesn't. Personally, I find it very refreshing in a President. He is not a product of the media. They didn't make him. They can't break him.

I am sorry to interrupt you and this diatribe but this is about the fact that both parties have different platforms and both are stuck on them and will not budge to find a compromise. This is not about finding fault but about the desire to find solutions. Neither seems to want to find solutions. Then again and as I have said several times before, if one of the platforms is all about me, me, me, no solutions can ever be found because me, me, me is not about us, us, us. As such, the me, me, me people should get up and say, lets work to find a way that its about us. Then the us people need to get up and respond.