[W:286] Are US child migrant detainees entitled to soap and beds?

[Phys251]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Yad Vashem tells Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to 'learn about concentration camps' - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Yes you should.
but we all know that is all you have.

Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust museum, had a response to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez referring to migrant detention centers as “concentration camps.”

.@AOC Concentration camps assured a slave labor supply to help in the Nazi war effort, even as the brutality of life inside the camps helped assure the ultimate goal of "extermination through labor."
And by doing so, they insist, she not only exaggerates what is happening in the detention facilities but belittles the ways Jews suffered when the Nazis turned their concentration camps into death camps.

ok so please show us where that is even close to being the case. these are called fact and what you are saying is not fact.


It isn't fact so have a nice day.
let me know when we are slaughtering kids in a furance.
or let me know when we are using them to the point of death by way
of slave labor then you might be factual.

Obviously you don't know what a concentration camp is so let me help you. Let's get out the dictionary.

concentration camp

a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc., especially any of the camps established by the Nazis prior to and during World War II for the confinement and persecution of prisoners.​

We are putting migrants, including migrant children, into concentration camps. Your bitter denial does not change this fact.

 

[NiceGuyEddie]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Again what would jesus do?

The right wing get off on this. They love seeing brown children suffer. It is not a funding problem because congress passed money for border security (just not for a wall). It's a moral dilemma because the Trump admin and ICE want to punish migrants for trying to get in. They make no distinction between illegal crossers and those who turn up at ports of entry to demand asylum. They don't care that people are escaping poverty, war, violence and unrest. To Trump they're all just 'illegals' who need to be 'dealt with'.

"It is not a funding problem ..."

That's EXACTLY what it is ... the democrats have refused to act on border relief funding requested nearly two months ago.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Here’s the coherent answer: you treat them as you would wish US citizens who overstayed visas or in other ways were undocumented in another country. These are people claiming to be fleeing drug gangs and other oppression. I know what might reach you. You are billed as conservative. Just think of them as Cubans.

Or you could argue you treat them as US citizens would be treated if they deliberately invaded another border looking for stuff. What they claim is irrelevant.

These people are not visa overstayers.

 

[uptower]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Most asylum claims are found to be invalid. People are abusing that process, because we've allowed it to be abused. They're seeking to migrate for economic reasons - and there's a process for that.

Citation for that would be good but I don't see the relevance. So is it, "They're not going to to get asylum so let's teach them a lesson by separating parents and children and denying basic sanitation" is that it? The point is they have done nothing to deserve such harsh treatment.

 

[maxparrish]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Nor this. From the same article.

"So the policy purporting to “deter” border crossings is, in practice, a fast track into legal purgatory, according to human-rights advocates. The notion of trying to discourage migrants by needlessly separating families is stunning enough; but Homeland Security’s singular policy to punish these specific families—who have braved hell to reach the border—marks an unprecedented level of ferocity."

The difference is this time the abuse is policy.

Separating Children From Their Parents Is a New Low for Our Immigration System | The Nation

This isn't hard. It's child abuse to drag your kids through physical hell on the off-chance you might get in. The children should be taken from these abusive parents, dressed in comfortable clothing, and transported in military aircraft and dropped over their country of origin...preferably with a parachute.

As Honduran citizens let Honduras take care of them.

 

[NiceGuyEddie]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

The border is funded and they are going through the process of giving more funding because the Trump administration has caressly used all of the previous funding.

No worries, I get it. You don't think children should be treated that way, but only if you get to twist it around so that it's the Dems fault and not the actual people running the agencies that are enacting the policies.

How noble of you.

"... twist it around so that it's the Dems fault ..."

No "twisting" necessary ... the democrats insist on open borders, overwhelm the courts, refuse funding and then whine about the 'horrific" conditions that they created and are only interested in sustaining. Wake up.

 

[Buzz62]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

It doesn't matter if they are illegal aliens. That doesn't make it ok to not give them clean clothes.

Are you honestly arguing that it's ok to put illegal immigrant children in a facility for 25 days without warm meals, clean clothes and showers? is that your position?

It does matter and as far as I know...they had warm meals and showers...maybe not soap but showers I believe they had/have.
As for the cloths...that's a toss-up. Is the US government responsible for clothing people?
I would think the churches or charity orgs would handle that if its an issue.
I'd donate. I already do.

 

[ludin]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Lawyers: 250 children held in bad conditions at Texas border

Ok, so your position is that these kids have gotten the essentials and that this is acceptable?

You can't read can you? i guess not. I said wanted actual evidence. thank for for actually providing evidence.
If that is the case then something needs to be done about it. sounds like it to me that there is an issue with funding.

the other fact is that most of these kids need to be sent back to their parents. as they have no claim in the US.
that would help out greatly. Their parents or kidnappers have put them in this position.

 

[uptower]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

This isn't hard. It's child abuse to drag your kids through physical hell on the off-chance you might get in. The children should be taken from these abusive parents, dressed in comfortable clothing, and transported in military aircraft and dropped over their country of origin...preferably with a parachute.

As Honduran citizens let Honduras take care of them.

See? The right gets off on this.

Cheaper to give them soap and a toothbrush at this point. And more humane. Sending them back to their countries - with or without parachutes - will result in more abuse, violence and death for many of them. That's why they left.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

To be treated humanely. To be treated the way you would want your children treated if they were every in that situation.

It's not that hard Anthony. It's called empathy. Human beings are born with it.

Question: Are you a Fundamental or Evangelical Christian?

I would have never put my children in that situation. We're not going into other countries and kidnapping kids. Parents are bringing them here.

 

[ludin]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Obviously you don't know what a concentration camp is so let me help you. Let's get out the dictionary.

concentration camp

a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc., especially any of the camps established by the Nazis prior to and during World War II for the confinement and persecution of prisoners.​

We are putting migrants, including migrant children, into concentration camps. Your bitter denial does not change this fact.

The only fact is they are not concentration camps.
they are detained until their case is heard then they are released and or they are denied access.

Sorry we can't have hundreds of thousands of people running the streets unaccountable.
more so all of these kids that have no parents or family that live here or that will claim them.

letting thousands of kids just run the streets is abuse.
but no these are nothing like concentration camps.

facts agree with me and do so experts that have said that these are not concentration camps.

 

[Nickyjo]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Interesting thought. Overstaying visas isn't exactly the same, but in any case, US citizens are usually given the opportunity to buy a plane ticket home, or be arrested. I don't think many of these people can afford that, but certainly it would be cheaper to provide them with a ticket than to detain them for more than a few days. Is that what you are advocating?

Other countries don't allow non-citizens to remain indefinitely without going through a legal process -- not even Mexico.

Correct. The legal process is a request for asylum in the case of most the Central Americans, voluntary departure or a deportation hearing for most Mexicans. In my view, providing the resources to decide claims fairly and more quickly would be more efficient, effective and humane than the “let’s treat them as bad as we can so they’ll leave or not even show up” policy tried in various forms by Trump. To paraphrase the old saying, “when all you have is a hammer for your policy, every problem looks like a nail.”

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

"... twist it around so that it's the Dems fault ..."

No "twisting" necessary ... the democrats insist on open borders, overwhelm the courts, refuse funding and then whine about the 'horrific" conditions that they created and are only interested in sustaining. Wake up.

Blah blah blah.

The president and his cabinet enacted new policies that led to this and you want to blame congress. This **** has been going on for a while now. It's by design, not by lack of funding. That dog don't hunt. You should be ashamed for your lies.

 

[ludin]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

See? The right gets off on this.

Cheaper to give them soap and a toothbrush at this point. And more humane. Sending them back to their countries - with or without parachutes - will result in more abuse, violence and death for many of them. That's why they left.

then it is up to their government to fix it not us.
they do not meet the criteria for asylum into the US.

 

[ludin]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Blah blah blah.

The president and his cabinet enacted new policies that led to this and you want to blame congress. This **** has been going on for a while now. It's by design, not by lack of funding. That dog don't hunt. You should be ashamed for your lies.

the obama administration started this mess and it has just grown worse.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

You can't read can you? i guess not. I said wanted actual evidence. thank for for actually providing evidence.
If that is the case then something needs to be done about it. sounds like it to me that there is an issue with funding.

the other fact is that most of these kids need to be sent back to their parents. as they have no claim in the US.
that would help out greatly. Their parents or kidnappers have put them in this position.

I said they aren't getting essentials and you responded with "they are". Now you are mad because I showed you were wrong. And you want to blame it on funding. Congress funds these things and are about to approve even more funding. But the way the money is spent and the way the kids are treated and the policies enacted are the presidents and his cabinets responsibilities. Period. If you say something is wrong and something needs to be done and then you try to spin and lie about what caused it then you might as well quit pretending that you have an issue with it.

 

[NiceGuyEddie]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

His solution is to turn a blind eye to the lack of accountability and human atrocities that started under three previous presidencies.
You don't expect politics before country cretins to actually admit it's not all Trump's fault, do you?

eta: forgot to add.... "We right wingers love to watch children suffer" so what would we know?

Yup, we hate children and puppies ... oh and lefty zealots who create a problem, refuse to fund the solutions and bleat "Racists" at every turn.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

"... twist it around so that it's the Dems fault ..."

No "twisting" necessary ... the democrats insist on open borders, overwhelm the courts, refuse funding and then whine about the 'horrific" conditions that they created and are only interested in sustaining. Wake up.

Democrats have created the magnet ... Now they are trying to scapegoat the right for the overcrowding, stressed detention centers at our southern borders.

 

[Nickyjo]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Or you could argue you treat them as US citizens would be treated if they deliberately invaded another border looking for stuff. What they claim is irrelevant.

These people are not visa overstayers.

They are no more or less illegal than visa overstayers. This is not an invasion any more than escaped slaves heading north was an invasion or Jews seeking asylum on the St. Louis was an invasion or Cubans escaping Castro was an invasion. What they are doing is provided for by US law and treaties that bind us. If you need the citations let me know. We could also tell the law and order president what the law is as well. Who knows, maybe he’ll catch on.

And “looking for stuff?” True, some are probably looking for their children.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Yup, we hate children and puppies ... oh and lefty zealots who create a problem, refuse to fund the solutions and bleat "Racists" at every turn.

It's despicable the way the Trump haters exploit the plight of these children... Shamefully sickening. Makes me want to take a shower.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

You’re out of your mind if you think this is appropriately funded by Congress. It isn’t. Not even close. Even to support the current state DHS had to scavenge money from FEMA, the Coast Guard, and various counterterrorism offices. Congress has done nothing to provide appropriate levels of funding for the massive influx of unaccompanied minors every month. So AOC and others can put a sock in it unless and until their screeching translates into legislation to pay for the conditions they want to see.

There's a non-negligible possibility that a permanent DHS chief could be helpful to DHS fulfilling its goals.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

the obama administration started this mess and it has just grown worse.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.

 

[ludin]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

I said they aren't getting essentials and you responded with "they are". Now you are mad because I showed you were wrong. And you want to blame it on funding. Congress funds these things and are about to approve even more funding. But the way the money is spent and the way the kids are treated and the policies enacted are the presidents and his cabinets responsibilities. Period. If you say something is wrong and something needs to be done and then you try to spin and lie about what caused it then you might as well quit pretending that you have an issue with it.

Wrong there was a hack story with 0 founding for evidence.
Someone else actually provided evidence that in a at least 1 center there are issues.

It has nothing to do with me bring wrong and me wanting actual evidence.
Since in at least 1 facility there are issues (doesn't mean that all of them are in trouble)

that the best course of action is to return the child to their parents in their home country.
since there is no one here that will claim them.

obama implemented these policies so if you want to rage about it rage at obama for it.
he is the one that started this disaster.

you didn't care for 8 years under the obama administration when they were doing the same damn
thing so why do you care now? so don't give me that you pretend to care nonsense now and that you
have an issue with it.

8 years of obama putting kids in these places you were silent. nothing.
faux outrage is faux outrage.

which is why no one takes you people seriously about anything.

 

[NiceGuyEddie]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

Blah blah blah.

The president and his cabinet enacted new policies that led to this and you want to blame congress. This **** has been going on for a while now. It's by design, not by lack of funding. That dog don't hunt. You should be ashamed for your lies.

"You should be ashamed for your lies." Where did I lie, exactly?

"It's by design, not by lack of funding." Link?

You should be ashamed of your posts ... you got nothin'.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Government argues that child migrant detainees are not entitled to soap and beds

proof and evidence is required. show me the evidence.
until then it is bunk.

Perhaps it is bunk.

It pains one to imagine the kids who've been take from their families are stuck in where they are unable to clean themselves, care for themselves, or to even sleep with a blanket.
The proper reaction to those allegations is shock and disbelief you express.

However, so far, the DoJ has not disputed the claims about the lack of proper resources.
rather, they have said that the proper resources are not required.

If it were bunk, the DoJ should've used that as their defense.
It would've been a solid defense.
The defense they used may not work for them.
It may not be too late for them to switch, though.
Maybe they will come back and say that it was a clerical error instead of what it is reported to be.

If it turns out that this is not merely a clerical error, what will your feelings about the matter be?