Trump's budget proves GOP deficit hawks are a dying breed

[Oborosen]

So then your OP is wrong since Trump is proposing cuts and return of social and healthcare programs to the states? Isn't this an example of the left not having any credibility What has happened in this country is the radical left has indoctrinated into the expansion of the federal gov't into areas they don't belong, social and healthcare spending. Trump is returning those programs to where they belong and that drives people dependent on the federal bureaucrats crazy. Looks like you are going to have to sell your state on implementing programs you want vs. getting the federal bureaucrats to do it

It's all going in one ear and out the other with posters like them. All they care for are their "orange man bad" motivations and so on.

I already wrote this off as wrong when I got done reading the OP and even the whole "vanity wall" statement. It's nothing more than a troll thread at this point.

 

[Conservative]

You can't notice the distinction between running trillion dollar deficits when unemployment is 10% and tax revenue drops and running trillion dollar deficits because Republicans chose to give rich people tax cuts?

You don't understand economic policy generates results do you? The results generated from the Obama economic policies led to the worst recovery from a recession in U.S. Modern History. rich people getting tax cuts didn't cause the deficits, interest rate hikes, entitlement spending did. You seem to believe that all the deficit problems in this country will be solved by increasing taxes on the rich, why is that? Why aren't 50% of income earners paying SOMETHING IN FIT?

With you it is always about revenue growth and never people keeping more of what they earn. You live in the wrong country, consider moving?

 

[Lycanthrope]

"Fiscal conservatism" has gone the way of "social conservatism" - exposed as a mere campaign device, and sacrificed on the altar of Trumpism.

 

[Conservative]

"Fiscal conservatism" has gone the way of "social conservatism" - exposed as a mere campaign device, and sacrificed on the altar of Trumpism.

Vs. the promotion of democratic socialism by the left?? I will take Trumpism

"America was founded on liberty and independence - not government coercion, domination, and control. We are born free, and we will stay free. Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country."

 

[Lycanthrope]

Vs. the promotion of democratic socialism by the left?? I will take Trumpism

You've been conned into accepting the very thing conservatism once created an entire political platform to combat. Rejecting Trumpism doesn't by default mean accepting liberalism. It can also mean staying true to conservatism.

 

[Conservative]

You've been conned into accepting the very thing conservatism once created an entire political platform to combat. Rejecting Trumpism doesn't by default mean accepting liberalism. It can also mean staying true to conservatism.

Looks to me you have bought the liberal argument against Trump without providing any specific actions taken that aren't conservative. stay true to conservatism to me means returning power to the states which Trump is trying to do, promoting a strong national defense which comes from funding, and allowing people to keep more of what they earn through tax cuts again which Trump has done. Maybe it is you that doesn't understand the term

 

[Lycanthrope]

Looks to me you have bought the liberal argument against Trump without providing any specific actions taken that aren't conservative. stay true to conservatism to me means returning power to the states which Trump is trying to do, promoting a strong national defense which comes from funding, and allowing people to keep more of what they earn through tax cuts again which Trump has done. Maybe it is you that doesn't understand the term

Take a look at the exploding national debt (fiscal conservative) an Trump's personal life (social conservative) and get back to me.

As for the former, don't worry - I'm sure the Tea Party is charging their mobility scooters as we speak for the next mass rally in DC against wasteful government spending. Gonna be legendary.

 

[Conservative]

Take a look at the exploding national debt (fiscal conservative) an Trump's personal life (social conservative) and get back to me.

As for the former, don't worry - I'm sure the Tea Party is charging their mobility scooters as we speak for the next mass rally in DC against wasteful government spending. Gonna be legendary.

Stop making a fool of yourself and post the line items showing Trump exploding the deficits. I am sure the Democratic Party and their socialist candidates will do a better job for you

 

[Tbird19482]

Stop making a fool of yourself and post the line items showing Trump exploding the deficits. I am sure the Democratic Party and their socialist candidates will do a better job for you

the Line Items do not mean a thing it is the President that has to sign them into law and it is the President that takes the blame for them JUST like when Obama was in office,
Just like when Obama was in office and every other President they have to sign CR's and any spending bills and IF the Government spends a cent he is the one that has to sign the bill authorizing it to be spent.
OH I forgot YOU think just because a President doesn't sign a budget he is not Responsible for what goes on the debt when he is in office.
Hate to tell you IF Obama and every other President is Responsible for the debt going up no matter IF they signed a budget or not so is Trump.
The President IS responsible for the Budget and the DEBT from Oct. 1st of the year he takes office till midnight Sept 30th of the year the next President takes over.
Have a nice evening

 

[Conservative]

the Line Items do not mean a thing it is the President that has to sign them into law and it is the President that takes the blame for them JUST like when Obama was in office,
Just like when Obama was in office and every other President they have to sign CR's and any spending bills and IF the Government spends a cent he is the one that has to sign the bill authorizing it to be spent.
OH I forgot YOU think just because a President doesn't sign a budget he is not Responsible for what goes on the debt when he is in office.
Hate to tell you IF Obama and every other President is Responsible for the debt going up no matter IF they signed a budget or not so is Trump.
The President IS responsible for the Budget and the DEBT from Oct. 1st of the year he takes office till midnight Sept 30th of the year the next President takes over.
Have a nice evening

That isn't even the issue here as you and others refuse to even look at Treasury to see where the deficits were for 2018 yet are quick to blame Trump. The President has done what he could, cut spending in the executive branch, generated more than enough revenue to fund his increases in the military and did actual cuts in other departments. This massive increase that you claim were Trump's amounted to 17%. Let me know when he reaches Obama levels

 

[Kushinator]

That isn't even the issue here as you and others refuse to even look at Treasury to see where the deficits were for 2018 yet are quick to blame Trump. The President has done what he could, cut spending in the executive branch, generated more than enough revenue to fund his increases in the military and did actual cuts in other departments. This massive increase that you claim were Trump's amounted to 17%. Let me know when he reaches Obama levels

“Not only will this tax plan pay for itself, but it will pay down debt,”

:lamo

 

[Waddy]

There is no such thing as a deficit hawk. We're on this roller coaster to the end.

 

[Conservative]

:lamo

So again the belief that tax cuts are an expense continues to be promoted as is the revenue generated in 2018 by the various revenue streams in the federal, state, and local levels.

Seems your entire focus is on Federal Revenue yet Treasury shows federal revenue up vs. 2017 and 2016 in all areas except corporate income taxes with most of the corporate taxes being reduced by wage, benefit, pension increases all that decreased taxable income from those corporations

Here is what you want to ignore

Table 3.1. Government Current Receipts and Expenditures
[Billions of dollars] Seasonally adjusted at annual rates
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: February 28, 2019 - Next Release Date March 28, 2019

Line
2016 Q4 2017 Q4 2018 Q4
1 Current receipts 5402.2 5501.4 ---
2 Current tax receipts 3705.6 3787.7 ---
3 Personal current taxes 1984.3 2070.9 2071.3
4 Taxes on production and imports 1320.7 1370 1467.4
5 Taxes on corporate income 376.1 320.4 ---
6 Taxes from the rest of the world 24.5 26.4 28.4
7 Contributions for government social insurance 1262.7 1322.5 1386.6
8 From persons 1257.6 1317.3 1381.1
9 From the rest of the world1 5.1 5.2 5.5
10 Income receipts on assets 212 195.9 213
11 Interest and miscellaneous receipts 111.9 116.8 121

Notice that total revenue for 2018 hasn't been posted yet but FIT, SS/Medicare/, and Interest revenue up more than 2017-2018 and only corporate taxes down but as explained due to taxable income being down as well. All these categories will be adjusted the end or March as the gov't shutdown affected reporting.

 

[Kushinator]

So again the belief that tax cuts are an expense continues to be promoted as is the revenue generated in 2018 by the various revenue streams in the federal, state, and local levels.

This is what you've created as my argument, while ignoring what i've actually said. I never said anything like whats written above nor could it be confused as such.

Seems

Your strawman has no power.

Here is an example of a discussion with you (Conman) provided by Logically Fallacious

Me: Biological evolution is both a theory and a fact.

Conman: That is ridiculous! How can you possibly be absolutely certain that we evolved from pond scum!

Me: Actually, that is a gross misrepresentation of my assertion. I never claimed we evolved from pond scum. Unlike math and logic, science is based on empirical evidence and, therefore, a scientific fact is something that is confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent. The empirical evidence for the fact that biological evolution does occur falls into this category.

Explanation: Edwin has ignorantly mischaracterized the argument by a) assuming we evolved from pond scum (whatever that is exactly), and b) assuming “fact” means “certainty”.

Here is what you want to ignore

You can't stop... it's literally the only way you know how to debate is through fallacy.

:lol:

Notice that total revenue for 2018 hasn't been posted yet but FIT, SS/Medicare/, and Interest revenue up more than 2017-2018 and only corporate taxes down but as explained due to taxable income being down as well. All these categories will be adjusted the end or March as the gov't shutdown affected reporting.

Trump and his Treasury Secretary never made the claim: tax cuts will grow revenue by less than half a percent, and the only reason we will have deficits is because of the line item increases that have nothing to do with us. So if you ignore any spending increases and focus solely on any potential increase in revenue (inflation being the primary cause), the tax cuts will reduce the deficit.

Not the actual deficit... the deficit you've created in your head.

 

[MTAtech]

We also won't know the true effect of the December 2017 tax-cuts until April 2019's numbers are published. Income tax revenue paid by taxpayers in April 2018 were under the old rates. 2019 will be the new rates. Even with the 2018 revenue being at 2017 rates, we see revenue growing for a decade and then dropping in 2018. Hmmm, what happened to cause that? Who knows?

 

[Conservative]

This is what you've created as my argument, while ignoring what i've actually said. I never said anything like whats written above nor could it be confused as such.



Your strawman has no power.

Here is an example of a discussion with you (Conman) provided by Logically Fallacious

Me: Biological evolution is both a theory and a fact.

Conman: That is ridiculous! How can you possibly be absolutely certain that we evolved from pond scum!

Me: Actually, that is a gross misrepresentation of my assertion. I never claimed we evolved from pond scum. Unlike math and logic, science is based on empirical evidence and, therefore, a scientific fact is something that is confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent. The empirical evidence for the fact that biological evolution does occur falls into this category.

Explanation: Edwin has ignorantly mischaracterized the argument by a) assuming we evolved from pond scum (whatever that is exactly), and b) assuming “fact” means “certainty”.



You can't stop... it's literally the only way you know how to debate is through fallacy.

:lol:



Trump and his Treasury Secretary never made the claim: tax cuts will grow revenue by less than half a percent, and the only reason we will have deficits is because of the line item increases that have nothing to do with us. So if you ignore any spending increases and focus solely on any potential increase in revenue (inflation being the primary cause), the tax cuts will reduce the deficit.

Not the actual deficit... the deficit you've created in your head.

Tax cuts ARE GROWING REVENUE at the Federal, STATE, and LOCAL levels but your focus is on the federal level as if the federal bureaucrats are ever going use any money received to pay down the deficit when they can spend the money to buy votes. Why would anyone support giving more money to the bureaucrats in D.C. to buy votes and grow power?

Your arguments are worthless and a waste of time for a response representing someone who doesn't have any clue about human nature or behavior nor the components of GDP. You don't even know the true role of the federal gov't but have been indoctrinated well.

Do you have any idea where the state and local governments get their revenue and how that revenue is affected by higher taxes going to the Federal bureaucrats? Interesting how deficits weren't a problem when Obama was in office but are now as they went up a whopping 17% vs 2017 still well below Obama levels

Your strawman argument of how bad this recession was is totally destroyed by the reality of how quickly we came out of recession after TARP and how poor the economic plans were from Obama that generated the results you now want to tout as proof of how bad the recession was.

 

[Kushinator]

Tax cuts ARE GROWING REVENUE at the Federal, STATE, and LOCAL levels

You haven't demonstrated this to be true. If anything, the data shows that revenue growth has slowed dramatically and output growth hasn't risen to the levels predicted.

your focus is on the federal level as if the federal bureaucrats are ever going use any money received to pay down the deficit when they can spend the money to buy votes.

Strawman

Why would anyone support giving more money to the bureaucrats in D.C. to buy votes and grow power?

Strawman

someone who doesn't have any clue about human nature or behavior nor the components of GDP.

This is a lie.

You don't even know the true role of the federal gov't but have been indoctrinated well.

Opinion (really it's projecting)

Do you have any idea where the state and local governments get their revenue

Yes.

how that revenue is affected by higher taxes going to the Federal bureaucrats

Research shows that revenue generation isn't a zero-sum game. Furthermore, money appropriated to the federal government is eventually returned to the private sector. Remember how you like to whine about individual mandates??? Many states are wholly dependent upon federal money... especially poor red states.

Interesting how deficits weren't a problem when Obama was in office

Obama was dealing with a lessor depression. We did however witness significant deficit reduction during his term, with the deficit falling from $1.4 trillion to $665 billion. When the economy is in decline, deficit spending is necessary. When the economy is growing, we should expect deficit reduction. A policy that stimulates the economy when unemployment is at record lows is so incredibly stupid, it doesn't even require explanation.

but are now as they went up a whopping 17% vs 2017 still well below Obama levels

Republicans ran on the premise of deficit reduction, as it was their most important issue during the Obama administration. When they had control of the executive and legislative branch, they failed to deliver on the past 8 years of promises. Your party failed you.

Your strawman argument of how bad this recession was

That's not a strawman argument. :lamo How can you be so ignorant?

 

[Visbek]

Don't worry, the population of Deficit Hawks will miraculously recover when a Democrat is elected President again.

 

[Conservative]

Kushinator;1069834840]You haven't demonstrated this to be true. If anything, the data shows that revenue growth has slowed dramatically and output growth hasn't risen to the levels predicted.

Bull****, revenue up at state and local levels, charities and even federal level. We will get federal revenue the end of March

Strawman

Bull****

This is a lie.

More of your bull****

Opinion (really it's projecting

)

You haven't proven me wrong as your entire argument revolves around the revenue going to the federal gov't and tax cuts having to be paid for

Yes.

Don't believe you

Research shows that revenue generation isn't a zero-sum game. Furthermore, money appropriated to the federal government is eventually returned to the private sector. Remember how you like to whine about individual mandates??? Many states are wholly dependent upon federal money... especially poor red states.

Returning to the private sector how?? Do the individual taxpayers get any of that money back? Many states are dependent on federal money because of higher taxes going to the federal gov't making it hard to collect more to fund these programs. If the federal gov't is going to send mandates back to the states why should they do it themselves? How do mandates affect individual taxpayers most of whom don't pay any FIT?

Obama was dealing with a lessor depression. We did however witness significant deficit reduction during his term, with the deficit falling from $1.4 trillion to $665 billion. When the economy is in decline, deficit spending is necessary. When the economy is growing, we should expect deficit reduction. A policy that stimulates the economy when unemployment is at record lows is so incredibly stupid, it doesn't even require explanation.

That is a lie as has been proven over and over again, Your belief that we are dependent on gov't spending like Europe shows your true economic ignorance. deficits falling from 1.4 trillion to 665 billion had absolutely nothing to do with Obama and isn't something to tout. Debt was 9.3 TRILLION dollars in 8 years, let me know when Trump reaches that level.

Record low unemployment skewed by part time for economic reasons as employers reacted to higher taxes by cutting hours. 146 million employed in January 2008 and amazingly with population growth, a stimulus, and that booming economy went to 138 million by the end of 2009, then never recovered to 146 million until 2014 at which time part time jobs were still the major share of jobs created. by the end of the Obama term it was 152 million including 5.7 million part time for economic reasons and is now 157 million with 4.3 million part time jobs

Republicans ran on the premise of deficit reduction, as it was their most important issue during the Obama administration. When they had control of the executive and legislative branch, they failed to deliver on the past 8 years of promises. Your party failed you.

No, my party as you call it allowed me to keep more of what I earn, helped generated record revenue in the state of TX, record charitable contributions in the state of TX and record employment in the state of TX

 

[Casper]

Don't worry, the population of Deficit Hawks will miraculously recover when a Democrat is elected President again.

True, one can always count on the Repubs changing their tune once it is not their guys in power, the term Hypocrite comes to mind.....

 

[Conservative]

True, one can always count on the Repubs changing their tune once it is not their guys in power, the term Hypocrite comes to mind.....

One thing Republicans can always count on are people like you so indoctrinated that you are incapable of even looking at the line items in the budget to determine where the problem is as you totally ignore that Trump has actually proposed department cuts. when was the last President to do that? Any idea how much four interest rate hikes contributed to the 17% increase in deficits for 2018? How about explain to us how Trump is responsible for the 20 trillion dollar debt he inherited and the debt service on that debt?

Now go and run like all liberals do refusing to even respond when challenged

 

[Kushinator]

revenue up at state and local levels, charities and even federal level.

This is a continuation of a trend that was established long ago.

We will get federal revenue the end of March

And we will. I remember when you said the same thing about GDP growth being 3% for 2018. February 28th came and your prediction didn't hold up. Did you acknowledge such failure? Nope. You doubled down with more partisan ignorance. I don't expect the next time to be any different.

You haven't proven me wrong as your entire argument revolves around the revenue going to the federal gov't and tax cuts having to be paid for

My entire argument rests with the fact that Trump promised to cut the deficit and grow GDP by more than 3%. It just hasn't happened.

Returning to the private sector how??

Ill entertain this question as it relates to my actual response. Every single penny that goes to the Federal government is returned to the private sector plus additional funding (which is financed via deficit spending). When federal employees and contractors are paid their wages, they spend (and also pay taxes) a good portion of their income buying food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc.... Are you unaware that all public sector expenditures eventually flow back into the private sector?

Do the individual taxpayers get any of that money back?

Federal expenditures create additional revenue in the private sector.

Many states are dependent on federal money because of higher taxes going to the federal gov't

The dependent states are typically poor and Republican.

Your belief that we are dependent on gov't spending like Europe

Strawman

deficits falling from 1.4 trillion to 665 billion had absolutely nothing to do with Obama and isn't something to tout. Debt was 9.3 TRILLION dollars in 8 years, let me know when Trump reaches that level.

You can't expect to pin debt on Obama while simultaneously exonerating him for deficit reduction. That's sheer contradiction of your argument! :lamo

Record low unemployment skewed by part time for economic reasons as employers reacted to higher taxes by cutting hours.

You have not demonstrated this with data. Can you show this to be true?

146 million employed in January 2008 and amazingly with population growth, a stimulus, and that booming economy went to 138 million by the end of 2009, then never recovered to 146 million until 2014 at which time part time jobs were still the major share of jobs created. by the end of the Obama term it was 152 million including 5.7 million part time for economic reasons and is now 157 million with 4.3 million part time jobs

Someone is obsessed with Obama.

 

[Geoist]

Trump budget proposal impact. If it’s related to your health, it’s CUT by a lot.

$1.5 Trillion Medicaid
$845 Billion Medicare
$220 Billion SNAP (food for poor kids)
$25 Billion Social Security
$84 Billion Disability programs
CDC & NIH decimated

Let's see how much those old Trump supporters are willing to sacrifice for Dear Leader.

 

[Conservative]

Let's see how much those old Trump supporters are willing to sacrifice for Dear Leader.

Why is Medicaid, SNAP, Disability programs, DCD and NIH Federal programs anyway? Where are those listed in the Constitution? Federal overreach has been out of control for decades and with record revenue now going to the states because of consumer spending isn't it time to take power away from the bureaucrats in D.C. that only buy votes with the money and handouts?

 

[Conservative]

This is a continuation of a trend that was established long ago.



And we will. I remember when you said the same thing about GDP growth being 3% for 2018. February 28th came and your prediction didn't hold up. Did you acknowledge such failure? Nope. You doubled down with more partisan ignorance. I don't expect the next time to be any different.



My entire argument rests with the fact that Trump promised to cut the deficit and grow GDP by more than 3%. It just hasn't happened.



Ill entertain this question as it relates to my actual response. Every single penny that goes to the Federal government is returned to the private sector plus additional funding (which is financed via deficit spending). When federal employees and contractors are paid their wages, they spend (and also pay taxes) a good portion of their income buying food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc.... Are you unaware that all public sector expenditures eventually flow back into the private sector?



Federal expenditures create additional revenue in the private sector.



The dependent states are typically poor and Republican.



Strawman



You can't expect to pin debt on Obama while simultaneously exonerating him for deficit reduction. That's sheer contradiction of your argument! :lamo



You have not demonstrated this with data. Can you show this to be true?



Someone is obsessed with Obama.

Keep focusing on trends and ignoring the dollars. Upward trend sounds great until you look at the dollars collected just like Obama's GDP growth is upward trend but by dollar standards a disaster based upon the dollars spent. States and local gov'ts because of consumer spending have generated massive amounts of cash from sales and property taxes along with the state excise taxes on gasoline due to travel. Upward trends mean nothing, dollars do

It is also amazing how all those red states apparently only have poor Republicans in them and never poor democrats. You are truly clueless

No obsession with Obama just and obsession with the poor results of the Obama policies which I noticed you ignoring the results