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Question for Single Payer fans...

MrWonka

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What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

This sounds like a case for smaller government....
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

Then we'll be back to no health care at all.
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

The same thing that is happening to Medicare and Social Security they will try to take it away from you. But note it won't be easy to take away from the public that which it likes Needs & Wants

I see no evidence that nurse unions have any desire to prevent policies to lower Healthcare cost as it is to everyone's benefits including nurses and Healthcare professionals. We're talking about policies with substantially contribute to health care cost. everyone is entitled to more pay corresponding to increased inflation so that argument will be false. Pay follows inflation it doesn't cause it.
 
No, it's an argument for options and proper utilization of government.

The only people who decide how government is properly utilized are the people with institutional power.

You asked, "What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?" I think you already answered your own question.
 
I see no evidence that nurse unions have any desire to prevent policies to lower Healthcare cost as it is to everyone's benefits including nurses and Healthcare professionals.
You know they paid to do their jobs right? Did teachers have a desire to prevent policies to lower education costs?

We're talking about policies with substantially contribute to health care cost.
Which would include the high salaries that doctors and nurses make?

everyone is entitled to more pay corresponding to increased inflation so that argument will be false.
How is that working out for teachers?

Pay follows inflation it doesn't cause it.

Well, actually that's just not true. Pay does contribute to inflation to a degree.
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

Well Im no single payer fan, but the answer is obviously yes. Whatever it takes to get the result they want. The law doesnt matter, people dont matter, harm doesnt matter. If someone gets elected that they dont like, or does something they dont like, then rules dont apply.
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

Beyond what Oscar said, nurses have historically been proponents of SP; remember their support of Bernie? The Healthy California Act SB 562? New York Nurses Association calling SP a must?


Also, assuming SP passed into law and was competently deployed whatsoever, it would be political suicide for a Trump-like figure to propose scrapping/dismantling it; this has been borne out pretty much everywhere one exists, and why most Republicans (and many Democrats, particularly those taking pharma/insurer donations) oppose it at all costs. In this case, the best that parties hostile to SP have been able to do in such countries is boil the frog by slowly and gradually privatizing the health sector/cutting spending (or deliberately failing to have spending keep pace with need/population/demographics/etc) and then, when performance inevitably suffers as a direct result of these actions, disingenuously attempting to convince people that public healthcare is failing and needs to be privatized, or that privatization can create 'efficiencies'; the UK is a prime example. Conservatives there in their heart of hearts want to institute a private/American style healthcare system, but cannot due to the political toxicity of the position so they opt instead for this approach.
 
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Well Im no single payer fan, but the answer is obviously yes. Whatever it takes to get the result they want. The law doesnt matter, people dont matter, harm doesnt matter. If someone gets elected that they dont like, or does something they dont like, then rules dont apply.

So you think that Doctors and Nurses will just let people die because they want more money? Talk about projection.
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?
What happens now when you lose your job because Trump tariffed your industry out of business, and you find yourself paying close to $2000 a month for health insurance via COBRA?
 
What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

Most doctors and nurses these days actually favor a single payor system- and for good reason.

Doctors favor single payer, despite likely income hit | FierceHealthcare

This current private payor system, with primary and secondary insurances, and different and constantly fluctuating copays and deductibles, and what services and procedures are covered and which are not, etc, etc... is an overwhelmingly heavy administrative burden on most doctors' offices and hospitals. They literally have to hire an army of people in billing and constant training for their front desk staff to keep up with all the nonsense.
 
Beyond what Oscar said, nurses have historically been proponents of SP
Teachers are generally proponents of public education as well. They still need to unionize and strike from time to time. Particularly in Republican states.

Also, assuming SP passed into law and was competently deployed whatsoever, it would be political suicide for a Trump-like figure to propose scrapping/dismantling it
Trump got elected to build a wall. He and Paul Ryan are doing everything in their power to scrap/dismantle Obamacare, social security, Medicare, the EPA, the department of education... as we speak. They might lose the next election or two, but a lot of that damage will already be done.

this has been borne out pretty much everywhere one exists
Do they have this many dirtbag Republicans everywhere else?

and many Democrats, particularly those taking pharma/insurer donations) oppose it at all costs.
I'm a Democrat. I take no pharma/insurer donations. I oppose it in large part because I hate the DMV, I don't want my doctor's office to turn into one, and because of the questions, I posted in the OP.
 
What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?

Medicare fall apart while I wasn’t looking?
 
Most doctors and nurses these days actually favor a single payer system- and for good reason.

Doesn't change whether or not they'll need a Union. Most Teachers favor public school, they still have a union.
 
Medicare fall apart while I wasn’t looking?

Getting pretty close. The tax cuts are designed to create a deficit, then the deficit will be used as an excuse to cut Medicare.
 
What happens now when you lose your job because Trump tariffed your industry out of business, and you find yourself paying close to $2000 a month for health insurance via COBRA?

False choice.
 
Teachers are generally proponents of public education as well. They still need to unionize and strike from time to time. Particularly in Republican states.

Sure, it happens, and yes, there is going to be some union pushback as there always is.

However, that doesn't mean that the doctors and nurses are going to strike to preclude any and every exercise of SP negotiating power; even if you assume an SP system won't be able to touch salaries whatsoever (which is asinine), there is still plenty of room to leverage SP negotiating power and bring down the cost of drugs, and supplies, while cancerous waste in terms of administrative expenses are all but abolished (no insurers to deal with with their litany of ridiculous/complex exemptions, exceptions, etc).

Trump got elected to build a wall. He and Paul Ryan are doing everything in their power to scrap/dismantle Obamacare, social security, Medicare, the EPA, the department of education... as we speak. They might lose the next election or two, but a lot of that damage will already be done.

And it will be reversed when they lose the next election, and they have this indelible blemish on their record.

In Canada, if the Conservatives acted fully on their true desires and say, exploited a majority to dismantle our national healthcare system, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say they might never see federal level governance again and it would deal serious lasting damage to their political brand at the least (as their replacement quickly reverses the damage immediately after, and enjoys a windfall of political esteem).

Do they have this many dirtbag Republicans everywhere else?

You'd be surprised; they generally skulk in the shadows and hide behind euphemisms, pretend at positions they don't believe in and generously employ doublespeak, but they certainly exist in force.

I'm a Democrat. I take no pharma/insurer donations. I oppose it in large part because I hate the DMV, I don't want my doctor's office to turn into one, and because of the questions, I posted in the OP.

Then, with all due respect, you're either not familiar with the impressive record of SP world wide to deliver care on par with US care or better, and at far lower cost, or you're letting disingenuous Republican/right leaning propaganda crowd out its demonstrated success globally. Moreover, let's be real about this: your hospital and doctor's office are not going to be run like your local DMV, and moreover, family clinics/doctors offices are generally privately run in SP countries anyways; they simply bill the govt instead of you.
 
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different and constantly fluctuating copays and deductibles, and what services and procedures are covered and which are not, etc, etc... is an overwhelmingly heavy administrative burden on most doctors' offices and hospitals. They literally have to hire an army of people in billing and constant training for their front desk staff to keep up with all the nonsense.

This also seems like a false choice. At the very least I would expect this problem could be minimized in other ways.

Car insurance and dental insurance is fairly standard in large part because the amount of money they end up paying out is smaller and more specific.
 
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