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Question for Single Payer fans...

In the middle of negotiations, Mitch McConnell said that his sole goal was "to make Obama a one-term president", and Boehner said "we will not compromise". What does that tell you about the mindset of the right and the prospects of a bipartisan anything?

It tells me that both sides refused to find a bipartisan solution. What does it say that after Trump became president and wanted to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a better bipartisan plan and the Democrats response was, "No. We refuse to repeal Obamacare and replace it a better bipartisan plan. We will only consider fixing Obamacare." Democrats are bound and determined to make Trump a one term president.
 
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Soooo... The poor can just go die off, right?

After all, if you can’t afford a Lamborghini, you can’t drive a Lamborghini. If you can’t afford healthcare, you die. Or go blind. Or live with chronic debilitating pain.

Do you see why healthcare may need to be treated a little differently than other commodities on the free market?
 
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It tells me that both sides refused to find a bipartisan solution. What does it say that after Trump became president and wanted to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a better bipartisan plan and the Democrats response was, "No. We refuse to repeal Obamacare and replace it a better bipartisan plan. We will only consider fixing Obamacare."

Donald Trump was voted into office to gut Obamacare. He had no plan. Neither did the Republican Congress. Cobbling something together over the weekend to try to say they tried is not a plan.
 
No, that is just patently false. Higher pay contributes to inflation in multiple ways. The first is that it directly causes the price of goods to increase a little bit because business owners have to raise prices to make up for the pay increase. Second, the additional money that people have laying around creates higher demand. It would be like going to an auction and just give everyone there an extra hundred bucks with the stipulation that they had to spend it at the auction. If you don't think that would cause them to bid up the price of each item up for auction you're delusional.

Now overall, population increases contribute far more to inflation than a pay increase would, and tying doctors and nurses salaries to inflation would be a small drop in the bucket in terms of increasing inflation, but it does impact it.

Your ad hominem aside, noting When PHDs and economists themselves are not in agreement on this point, you can't call anyone delusional.

Anyway....

Wages follow, they do not drive, inflation. Demand causes are not inflation. When demand is met prices go back down, and though there are fluctuations, the trend is pretty much flat. There is considerable debate on this in economic circles, including among economists themselves. But on inflation, I believe the Chicago and Austrian schools have it right, ( even though, insofar as policy, I'm a progressive/keynesian, etc ).
Market forces cause prices to rise and fall, but, using the ocean as a analogy, although the moon has a temporal influence on tide, it settles as the day turns, so to increase the world tide level, more water must be introduced to the ocean via polar ice melting.

Polar ice melting here is a metaphor for "fiat currency" being created and circulated faster than GDP can keep up with it. Too few goods chasing too much money, is the oft used descriptor, and i believe it is accurate.


Economist Milton Friedman famously said, "Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon," meaning that money supply, not the rising cost of doing business, is the primary cause of inflation.

You'll find other economists disagreeing, but I believe on this point Friedman is correct, and the tide analogy works. Critics will sight historical examples where it didn't happen, but i note that the money supply is a complex thing, and one cannot view it from a microscope. Also, the effect isn't immediate, and can take months, etc. The gov fails to take in enough money to meet obligations, and results to the printing press ( or digital equivalent ) to create money out of thin air, called "fiat currency".

There are many historical examples of this, the hyperinflations of Germany, Africa, South America, etc., and smaller examples as the prices of things at the towns around the Gold Rush, where suddenly, there is an aggregate increase on gold and prices rose (in the surrounding towns) to about what they are today, back in the 19th century.
 
Trump's "replacement" had 17% approval among the public. It was by far the least popular piece of major legislation I've ever seen.

If Democrats had worked with Trump at finding a bipartisan solution to healthcare we could have had a better outcome than 17%. Democrats refused to even discuss anything other than fixing what voters voted against in the first place.
 
If Democrats had worked with Trump at finding a bipartisan solution to healthcare we could have had a better outcome than 17%. Democrats refused to even discuss anything other than fixing what voters voted against in the first place.

The Republicans have no interest in any kind of solution. They voted someone with no ideas or solutions- just someone with a promise to gut the little that was already there. And so that's what they got. Who are Democrats to go against the people's will? This is a democracy, and the people get what they want, and deserve.
 
The Republicans have no interest in any kind of solution. They voted someone with no ideas or solutions- just someone with a promise to gut the little that was already there. And so that's what they got. Who are Democrats to go against the people's will? This is a democracy, and the people get what they want, and deserve.

You said yourself that voters voted in a president to gut Obamacare. Now you are against the voters' will.
 
The Republicans have no interest in any kind of solution. They voted someone with no ideas or solutions- just someone with a promise to gut the little that was already there. And so that's what they got. Who are Democrats to go against the people's will? This is a democracy, and the people get what they want, and deserve.

Trump doesnt make law. However, the Republicans have presented several "solutions", from repeal to replacement

https://housegop.leadpages.co/healthcare/
 
You said yourself that voters voted in a president to gut Obamacare. Now you are against the voters' will.

Trump himself called the Republican proposal "mean". And he didn't have any ideas of his own. Remember: he had just ran on gutting Obamacare. He didn't run on any better ideas. And that's what the people voted him to do.

So I respect the voters' will. You are the one who is saying that the Democrats should have worked harder with Republicans for healthcare reform. So who is against the voters' will again?
 
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Most presidents spearhead policy proposals for congress to work on. That's what leadership is all about. For example, Obama ran on reforming healthcare. As another example, Trump ran on gutting those laws. That's it. And he didn't like the Republican "solutions" either. He called them "mean".

So I don't see the problem. The voters are getting exactly what they wanted.
 
Trump himself called the Republican proposal "mean". And he didn't have any ideas of his own. Remember: he had just ran on gutting Obamacare. He didn't run on any better ideas. And that's what the people voted him to do.

So I respect the voters' will. You are the one who is saying that the Democrats should have worked harder with Republicans for healthcare reform. So who is against the voters' will again?

Hillary had no ideas at all.
 
Hillary had no ideas at all.

OK, maybe so. But we are talking about Trump, who the voters voted for. If the voters had wanted Hillary's version of "no ideas at all", they would have voted for her. They didn't. So please spare us the "But Hillary...." stuff as a distraction.
 
Most presidents spearhead policy proposals for congress to work on. That's what leadership is all about. For example, Obama ran on reforming healthcare. As another example, Trump ran on gutting those laws. That's it. And he didn't like the Republican "solutions" either. He called them "mean".

So I don't see the problem. The voters are getting exactly what they wanted.

The President is not the leader. He is the enforcer. Congress makes the laws. And as I linked, they have solutions.
 
Trump doesnt make law. However, the Republicans have presented several "solutions", from repeal to replacement

https://housegop.leadpages.co/healthcare/

The bill they're touting there was widely viewed as a bad idea by the public. And it was a bad idea!

Public Overwhelmingly Disapproves of House Health Care Bill
Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of the House plan to repeal and replace Obamacare, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

This new poll comes as Senate Republicans unveil their own health care legislation on Thursday. While the Senate bill shares some similarities to the House version, it also contains differences.

By a 3-to-1 margin, the American public holds a negative view of the American Health Care Act, legislation that House Republicans passed last month and that President Donald Trump supports.

Just 16 percent of adults believe that House health care bill is a good idea, versus 48 percent who say it’s a bad idea.

Eight years and that pile of garbage was the best they could do.
 
Any reason you don't understand a simple answer?

You didn't answer, you deflected to a discussion of single-payer. I was asking about a free market system.

Are choice and competition an important part of the free market system you envision.
 
I pay less now per month for my insurance which is better than medicare without the need for a supplement plan.

Medigap Plan Average Monthly Premium3
C $414
D $357
F $321

that is i am assuming for 2 people.
that also doesn't consider that doctor participation in medicare is dropping so that means
less coverage for everyone.

so please tell us again how that is a good thing?

Are you comparing your employer's health plan?
 
Are you comparing your employer's health plan?

I am comparing what i pay now to what i will pay under a so called single payer system.

Right now i have much better coverage at a lower price.
 
You didn't answer, you deflected to a discussion of single-payer. I was asking about a free market system.

Are choice and competition an important part of the free market system you envision.
Of course. But that wasn't the question you originally asked; at least as I understood it. It seemed you wanted to compare OUR CURRENT costs to other nations' current costs. If I misunderstood I apologize.
 
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What happens when the next Trump gets elected and appoints Scott Pruit or Betsy DeVos to run your single payer system?

What happens when a Dr and Nurse Union arise to prevent you from using the negotiating power of the Federal Government to lower health care costs? Will they be allowed to go on strike?
Keep the gov out of my Medicare as the trumpette said
 
I am comparing what i pay now to what i will pay under a so called single payer system.

Right now i have much better coverage at a lower price.

No you aren't comparing those things.
 
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