Panic Over High Death Rate

[roguenuke]

You're saying that you have seen no difference in the buying habits of the general public?

Really? Nothing?

Even CNN sees this. CNN SEES THIS! If even CNN sees this, it makes me wonder how blind you need to be to miss this.

Why toilet paper has become the latest coronavirus panic buy - CNN

[h=1]The psychology behind why toilet paper, of all things, is the latest coronavirus panic buy[/h]By Scottie Andrew, CNN
Updated 5:14 PM ET, Mon March 9, 2020

Buying extra toilet paper is not equivalent to panicking. Not even close. And it wasnt caused by the media.

Do you know how much toilet paper a family of 4 would go through in 2 months? I do. 30 rolls. On average. A family of 8 or who has teen girls may use much more, but would likely need at least 60 rolls for two months worth. I normally buy large packs because I hate running out. Others shop for only a couple of days. But when you are told that quarantines for this could last 2 weeks or more, that is at least a 8 rolls. Now everyone figures this out, and starts buying. Shelves empty. When they refill you've noticed that hey it went fast only for a few weeks worth, and now the government is saying this could last a few months and there are none available. Ta da we have over buying.

Panic buying is not panicking. And mixed messages were the fault of the President, not the media.

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[minnie616]

Of the list of events that led to death, the valid comparisons are traffic deaths and the flu.

The mortality rate for traffic accidents is currently 14 times less than cv19, and I can’t tell you exactly what that is for the flu because I don’t know how many Americans have been infected with it this year, but going with the annual average of .1, that makes it 13 times less deadly than cv19.

I just wanted to add that I think we will find that traffic accidents will be lower in March and April of this year due to the stay home stay safe policy enacted in many states durning this coronavirus Heath crisis.

 

[Cardinal]

I just wanted to add that I think we will find that traffic accidents will be lower in March and April of this year due to the stay home stay safe policy enacted in many states durning this coronavirus Heath crisis.

What I’m praying for is that something good comes out of this...that we actually learn something and apply that thing to the future. And what I’m referring to is the normalization of people working from home instead of the office when all their job requires is a phone and an internet connection. Think of all the completely avoidable congested traffic, lost hours in commute and millions of tons of CO2 added to the air.

 

[minnie616]

That's an interesting question which I am, obviously, not qualified to answer with any authority.

Listening to folks who do seem qualified to answer it, they refer to a couple things.

One is that the folks who are least equipped to fight this off did/will die first. Those with an adequate level of immunity/resistance who were infected but did not die and probably won't in this go-round are developing levels of immunity.

Those that had a lesser problem once infected were already resistant. As these folks' immunity systems work to fight this virus, they become even less vulnerable to it. I've heard this referred to as "Herd Immunity".

Every person that got infected but didn't die is a possible road map to a solution. Our genius doctors and scientists are working hard to find a good path out of this.

Our less than genius politicians are trying to find a way to convert social distancing into social engineering.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I think you need to google “herd immunity.” When you do, you’ll see the problem with your theory.

I agree.

Actually, herd immunity will not work On the Coronavirus unless an effective vaccine is used on the vast majority of the population.

Here is a snip from an article that explaines it quite nicely.

But among all this uncertainty, I can say for sure that there is one thing that I would never have seen coming: the discussion about herd immunity. It is so out of the blue that the first time a journalist asked my opinion on whether it was effective for the coronavirus, I literally laughed out loud because I assumed they were joking.

And yet, here we are. Countless articles and think-pieces on the COVID-19 virus are making the argument that, albeit potentially risky, achieving herd immunity could be one response to our crisis. Many of them frame herd immunity as a preventive strategy that may stall the tidal wave of disease so many are predicting.

All of this is simply nonsense. Herd immunity without a vaccine is by definition not a preventative measure.

Let me explain.


Herd immunity is an epidemiological concept that describes the state where a population – usually of people –is sufficiently immune to a disease that the infection will not spread within that group. In other words, enough people can't get the disease – either through vaccination or natural immunity – that the people who are vulnerable are protected.[/B]

Read more:

Here's Why Herd Immunity Won't Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic



Here's Why Herd Immunity Won't Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic

Herd immunity does work to some degree though, but I agree it's not the ideal model to implement (particularly since most healthcare systems can't handle the peak). Even the current social distancing models incorporate it as part of the larger strategy.

See above

 

[Cardinal]

I agree.

Actually, herd immunity will not work On the Coronavirus unless an effective vaccine is used on the vast majority of the population.

Here is a snip from an article that explaines it quite nicely.



Read more:

Here's Why Herd Immunity Won't Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic



Here's Why Herd Immunity Won't Save Us From The COVID-19 Pandemic

Oh, herd immunity can work. It’s just that herd immunity as a solution is ****ing horrifying.

 

[bomberfox]

But but doctor! I didnt die! You lied to me!
Doctor: i gave you the medicine ya ungrateful sod.

 

[CaughtInThe]

as i posted in the other thread using this same tactic (is this spreading through Republican Media?), the OP should tweet all the other death stats to the family members who lose loved ones to this virus. it will comfort them.


either that or he should DEMAND that Trump put the country back to work.

 

[bomberfox]

What I’m praying for is that something good comes out of this...that we actually learn something and apply that thing to the future. And what I’m referring to is the normalization of people working from home instead of the office when all their job requires is a phone and an internet connection. Think of all the completely avoidable congested traffic, lost hours in commute and millions of tons of CO2 added to the air.

Least they wont have to wear all kinds of freakish contraptions designed to focus all senses on the job. Some bosses are still thinking of axing the cubicle for that.

 

[minnie616]

What Dr. Price said pretty much negates the idea that wearing a mask in the grocery store will protect anyone. Masks are considered by some to be the magic charm for protection.

His main point: "the overwhelming majority of people are getting this by physically touching someone who has this disease".

Social distancing is the key right now. What happens in the Fall when Football starts (or doesn't start) for Pee Wee, highSchool, College and Pros?

If Minnesota beats Michigan on October 17 at TCF Stadium, 65,000 fans might die, but they'll die happy.

If the season is cancelled, we'll continue in this seasonless world where we laugh, but not all of laughter and cry, but not all of our tears.

At some point, we will need to leave out homes. At that point, the virus will still be at large, waiting for new victims.

What then?

I boded the sentences I want to address.

I would like to point out that currently TCF Stadium is currently being converted into fabhospital for up to 900 Coronavirus patients.

From the following :

DETROIT (AP) —A convention center in Detroit will be turned into a 900-bed hospital in response to the coronavirus, the federal government said Sunday. Construction at TCF Center, formerly known as Cobo Center, will begin after contracts are wrapped up in 24 to 36 hours, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said. The June auto show has been canceled.

THE LATEST

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer swiftly agreed to use TCF Center. Michigan, especially Detroit and surrounding communities, has been one of the hardest-hit states. It had nearly 5,500 cases of the coronavirus by Sunday and 132 deaths. Detroit residents make up about 30% of cases.

“The dire situation in Detroit is getting worse by the minute,” Whitmer said on CNN.

Henry Ford Health System said it had 507 patients at five hospitals as of Sunday morning. Beaumont Health, which has eight hospitals, said it was caring for 810 people with COVID-19, the illness caused by the virus, and another 210 who were awaiting test results.

Read more:

Access Denied

 

[roguenuke]

What I’m praying for is that something good comes out of this...that we actually learn something and apply that thing to the future. And what I’m referring to is the normalization of people working from home instead of the office when all their job requires is a phone and an internet connection. Think of all the completely avoidable congested traffic, lost hours in commute and millions of tons of CO2 added to the air.

Technically something good has come out of it. Drug cartels are facing some huge issues with supply for their production as well as getting what they do have to customers due to closed borders and little to no travel. Crime in general may go down a bit too, but this could be very dependent on a lot of factors. Date rape is likely to drop a lot, but domestic violence could very likely spike up.

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[Cardinal]

Technically something good has come out of it. Drug cartels are facing some huge issues with supply for their production as well as getting what they do have to customers due to closed borders and little to no travel. Crime in general may go down a bit too, but this could be very dependent on a lot of factors. Date rape is likely to drop a lot, but domestic violence could very likely spike up.

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As I understand it, domestic violence is already up. A few days ago I noticed the alcohol shelves starting to thin out and had a pretty good idea of what might be happening behind those thinning shelves.

 

[roguenuke]

As I understand it, domestic violence is already up. A few days ago I noticed the alcohol shelves starting to thin out and had a pretty good idea of what might be happening behind those thinning shelves.

There are definitely going to be some statistics shifts. There will likely be an increase in household accidents, but also a likely decrease in motor vehicle accidents and recreational activity accidents. Hopefully there will be an increase in physically active people above the steps counted activity (which will decline rapidly). Withdraws and overdoses (surprisingly) may go up in the next few months, even with drug use in general potentially decreasing.

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[roguenuke]

As I understand it, domestic violence is already up. A few days ago I noticed the alcohol shelves starting to thin out and had a pretty good idea of what might be happening behind those thinning shelves.

Also, many places have started allowing alcohol delivery.

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[code1211]

Are you aware that health care workers are sick and dying because of exposure?

Please do not trivialize what is happening.

The comment to which I responded was in regard to the health system not being maxed out at this point.

"So far, so good" means that we are not yet maxed out.

What are you imagining I was saying by reading something into my comment that I didn't put there?

 

[code1211]

Buying extra toilet paper is not equivalent to panicking. Not even close. And it wasnt caused by the media.

Do you know how much toilet paper a family of 4 would go through in 2 months? I do. 30 rolls. On average. A family of 8 or who has teen girls may use much more, but would likely need at least 60 rolls for two months worth. I normally buy large packs because I hate running out. Others shop for only a couple of days. But when you are told that quarantines for this could last 2 weeks or more, that is at least a 8 rolls. Now everyone figures this out, and starts buying. Shelves empty. When they refill you've noticed that hey it went fast only for a few weeks worth, and now the government is saying this could last a few months and there are none available. Ta da we have over buying.

Panic buying is not panicking. And mixed messages were the fault of the President, not the media.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

You are explaining and justifying, not denying, panic buying.

Walking through the local stores lately, the shelves are being restocked to near normal levels and varieties.

The panic buying did not extend to only toilet paper. In the local Meijer, there is a refer cabinet that runs about 50 feet or so and has cold cuts and hot dog type items stacked in columns about 7 feet high.

Normally, it's a wall of the quasi meat that these products contain. On about March 23 or 24, that cabinet was pretty much empty. A couple days ago, it was once again, pretty much full.

Kroger was similarly picked over until the last few days. About a week ago, I wanted to buy some regular old yellow mustard. There was none. They usually have it stacked deep on a few different shelves from various labels.

The genius of Capitalism is that the system responds to this kind of thing and the shelves are now stocked up again and geared to satisfy the needs of the stay at home, new normal, buying habits.

Also, the shoppers are now aware that the shelves are being re-stocked.

Amid Coronavirus Fears, Shoppers Throw Punches Over Toilet Paper

[h=1]AMID CORONAVIRUS FEARS, SHOPPERS THROW PUNCHES OVER TOILET PAPER[/h]BY [FONT=&quot]MATTHEW IMPELLI ON 3/9/20 AT 10:31 AM EDT[/FONT]
<snip>

Two things about this:

1. Throwing punches over toilet paper is unusual because it never happens in normal times.

2. The folks involved in throwing punches over toilet paper are probably otherwise normal folks WHO WERE IN A PANIC over toilet paper.

Why are you even arguing this point?

 

[roguenuke]

You are explaining and justifying, not denying, panic buying.

Walking through the local stores lately, the shelves are being restocked to near normal levels and varieties.

The panic buying did not extend to only toilet paper. In the local Meijer, there is a refer cabinet that runs about 50 feet or so and has cold cuts and hot dog type items stacked in columns about 7 feet high.

Normally, it's a wall of the quasi meat that these products contain. On about March 23 or 24, that cabinet was pretty much empty. A couple days ago, it was once again, pretty much full.

Kroger was similarly picked over until the last few days. About a week ago, I wanted to buy some regular old yellow mustard. There was none. They usually have it stacked deep on a few different shelves from various labels.

The genius of Capitalism is that the system responds to this kind of thing and the shelves are now stocked up again and geared to satisfy the needs of the stay at home, new normal, buying habits.

Also, the shoppers are now aware that the shelves are being re-stocked.

Amid Coronavirus Fears, Shoppers Throw Punches Over Toilet Paper

AMID CORONAVIRUS FEARS, SHOPPERS THROW PUNCHES OVER TOILET PAPER

BY [FONT="][B][URL="https://www.newsweek.com/authors/matthew-impelli"]MATTHEW IMPELLI[/URL] [/B]ON 3/9/20 AT 10:31 AM EDT[/FONT]
<snip>

Two things about this:

1. Throwing punches over toilet paper is unusual because it never happens in normal times.

2. The folks involved in throwing punches over toilet paper are probably otherwise normal folks WHO WERE IN A PANIC over toilet paper.

Why are you even arguing this point?

Panic buying is not equivalent to panicking. If it were, every single year when either a hurricane or a blizzard hits different parts of the country, people could be considered panicking since that is what happens all the time. Hell every single Black Friday could be referred to as panic buying if we are going off of throwing punches to get something.

Additionally, that was Australia. So please tell us how the mainstream media caused that. And how it was even caused by the media reporting facts, rather than people determining from what was being reported, you know, the truth, that they may need more than they normally purchase, just in case. And, aussies like to fight.

And show how many cases of throwing punches over toilet paper have occurred? Lets try to limit this to the US since it was the US whose President claimed that "panic" was to be blamed on the media and/or Dems. Has anyone died over toilet paper?

Throwing punches is actually an annual thing when it comes to trying to purchase something.

Black Friday Violence By State — Are You In A High Risk Area?

Those involved in these Black Friday incidents were also likely normal folks who just wanted the best price on a TV or toaster.

 

[code1211]

I boded the sentences I want to address.

I would like to point out that currently TCF Stadium is currently being converted into fabhospital for up to 900 Coronavirus patients.

From the following :



Read more:

Access Denied

The TCF Stadium I'm talking about is in Minneapolis. It's the home field of the Minnesota Golden Gophers Football Team. It's an outdoor Football venue.

TCF Bank Stadium - Wikipedia

 

[year2late]

The comment to which I responded was in regard to the health system not being maxed out at this point.

"So far, so good" means that we are not yet maxed out.

What are you imagining I was saying by reading something into my comment that I didn't put there?

Depends where you are. Depends what you consider the heath system.

You are aware that health care workers in many areas have resorted to makeshift PPE? Health care workers are already getting the virus and dying.:shock: Wearing garbage bags and hand made masks that they are re-using (and clearly not medical grade, let alone n95)…….so far so good my ass.

By the way, if you ended up having a major health issue --requiring intensive care and surgery.....do you think any care for you would be different? Do you think your care would be different in anyway - perhaps compromised? Think of a increased need for ICU RNs to take care of you.....there was already a shortage of ICU RNs in many areas. How do you think they accommodate?

 

[code1211]

Panic buying is not equivalent to panicking. If it were, every single year when either a hurricane or a blizzard hits different parts of the country, people could be considered panicking since that is what happens all the time. Hell every single Black Friday could be referred to as panic buying if we are going off of throwing punches to get something.

Additionally, that was Australia. So please tell us how the mainstream media caused that. And how it was even caused by the media reporting facts, rather than people determining from what was being reported, you know, the truth, that they may need more than they normally purchase, just in case. And, aussies like to fight.

And show how many cases of throwing punches over toilet paper have occurred? Lets try to limit this to the US since it was the US whose President claimed that "panic" was to be blamed on the media and/or Dems. Has anyone died over toilet paper?

Throwing punches is actually an annual thing when it comes to trying to purchase something.

Black Friday Violence By State — Are You In A High Risk Area?

Those involved in these Black Friday incidents were also likely normal folks who just wanted the best price on a TV or toaster.

So panic buying has nothing to do with panic?

C'mon, man!

Sorry about the Australian reference. Looks like they panic there as well.

Black Friday stupidities are also a great example of panic. Thank you for pointing that out. We are apparently an easily panicked species.

NPR seems to disagree with you misinterpretation of this situation as do the majority of Americans.

Out of curiosity, can you link to any source that says clearly that there never was any panic buying and that everything was completely normal throughout the month of March in the US?

I can't understand why you are even arguing this.

Grocery Stores Start To Cut Hours As Coronavirus Prompts Surge In Panic-Buying : NPR
<snip>

With panic-buying gripping shoppers, Walmart, the nation's largest retailer by sales, announced this week that it has given store managers the "discretion to limit sales quantities on items that are in unusually high demand."

<snip>

 

[code1211]

Depends where you are. Depends what you consider the heath system.

You are aware that health care workers in many areas have resorted to makeshift PPE? Health care workers are already getting the virus and dying.:shock: Wearing garbage bags and hand made masks that they are re-using (and clearly not medical grade, let alone n95)…….so far so good my ass.

By the way, if you ended up having a major health issue --requiring intensive care and surgery.....do you think any care for you would be different? Do you think your care would be different in anyway - perhaps compromised? Think of a increased need for ICU RNs to take care of you.....there was already a shortage of ICU RNs in many areas. How do you think they accommodate?

I live in Indianapolis. Here, we are not in as bad shape as is New York. The way those folks crawl all over each other during their daily routine is terrifying to me with or without the virus.

New York and California both have huge populations. California is doing fairly well coping with the virus. New York is a crap show. California is about twice as populace as New York.

I saw a picture of nurses wearing garbage bags. It looked like they were wearing the garbage bags over their PPE. They also appeared to be mugging for the camera.

That does nothing to lessen the heroism they display as they freely choose to help the rest of us in need. In truth, it shows the great and admirable spirit and humor they maintain in this crisis.

In all honesty, I wouldn't want a job in the medical business in good times or bad.

The current shortages represent a lot and some of that is the deficiency of the local folks planning effectively.

Anyway, regarding your question, here in Indianapolis, we are blessed with a vast medical complex combining the force and strength of various institutions.

If I needed any procedure to be done, there is plenty of capacity to get it done available from several different providers. Still need to seek that care "in-network".

 

[roguenuke]

So panic buying has nothing to do with panic?

C'mon, man!

Sorry about the Australian reference. Looks like they panic there as well.

Black Friday stupidities are also a great example of panic. Thank you for pointing that out. We are apparently an easily panicked species.

NPR seems to disagree with you misinterpretation of this situation as do the majority of Americans.

Out of curiosity, can you link to any source that says clearly that there never was any panic buying and that everything was completely normal throughout the month of March in the US?

I can't understand why you are even arguing this.

Grocery Stores Start To Cut Hours As Coronavirus Prompts Surge In Panic-Buying : NPR
<snip>

With panic-buying gripping shoppers, Walmart, the nation's largest retailer by sales, announced this week that it has given store managers the "discretion to limit sales quantities on items that are in unusually high demand."

<snip>

Grocery stores are cutting hours to reduce exposure of their employees. Walmart has fewer people shopping and they are still considering limiting the number of people coming in.

And no panic buying (which is a subjective description that doesnt describe the actual situation, but based only on more people buying more than their current needs, stockpiling) is not related to panicking. Panicking would include killing the person with a cough, or at least threatening them. It would include taking extreme measures to avoid getting the illness. It would include riots and robbing people for their food. And all this would definitely need to be more widespread than an incident or two found out of thousands of examples of people just adapting easily.

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[JackA]

The genius of Capitalism is that the system responds to this kind of thing and the shelves are now stocked up again and geared to satisfy the needs of the stay at home, new normal, buying habits.

The genius will seem short lived if the pandemic is not short lived. The rate of infection in the US is extremely uneven with many sections of the country only lightly affected. So far. Elsewhere, as in Japan, the virus is having a resurgence, casting doubt on the hope that it will test us with only a single course. The longer it lasts the greater will be the strain on "the supply chain", as the admiral referenced it.

 

[code1211]

Grocery stores are cutting hours to reduce exposure of their employees. Walmart has fewer people shopping and they are still considering limiting the number of people coming in.

And no panic buying (which is a subjective description that doesnt describe the actual situation, but based only on more people buying more than their current needs, stockpiling) is not related to panicking. Panicking would include killing the person with a cough, or at least threatening them. It would include taking extreme measures to avoid getting the illness. It would include riots and robbing people for their food. And all this would definitely need to be more widespread than an incident or two found out of thousands of examples of people just adapting easily.

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You apply considerations that are not needed to fit the descriptions used by most of the media sn most of the citizens of the United States.

I don't know why you feel compelled to do so, but you are certainly free to do so.

Panic | Definition of Panic at Dictionary.com

[h=1]panic[/h]1
[ pan-ik ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR panic ON THESAURUS.COM

---

[h=3]noun[/h]a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals.
an instance, outbreak, or period of such fear.

SEE MORE[h=3]adjective[/h]of the nature of, caused by, or indicating panic: A wave of panic buying shook the stock market.
(of fear, terror, etc.) suddenly destroying the self-control and impelling to some frantic action.

SEE MORE[h=3]verb (used with object), pan·icked, pan·ick·ing.[/h]to affect with panic; terrify and cause to flee or lose self-control.
Slang. to keep (an audience or the like) highly amused.









This is why everyone is hoarding toilet paper | Ars Technica

[h=1]This is why everyone is hoarding toilet paper[/h][h=2]A consumer behavior researcher explains why toilet paper shelves are bare.[/h]KIONA N. SMITH - 3/24/2020, 9:52 AM

Enlarge / You know it's crazy when they even take the letter "E" from the sign.

 

[code1211]

The genius will seem short lived if the pandemic is not short lived. The rate of infection in the US is extremely uneven with many sections of the country only lightly affected. So far. Elsewhere, as in Japan, the virus is having a resurgence, casting doubt on the hope that it will test us with only a single course. The longer it lasts the greater will be the strain on "the supply chain", as the admiral referenced it.

Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your posts for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents the words as if they have not been changed?

 

[JackA]

Don't you just hate it when a poster edits your posts for no other reason than to change the meaning and then presents the words as if they have not been changed?

The post addressed one point and did not change its meaning.