DACA Kids?

[PIPEWRENCH]

that's right because there is a job available for them to work.. which is the point. .

There is a shortage of doctors maybe we can pick some of them up off the street corner and put them to work operating on people like yourself and your family. Look how much they will bring down the cost of health care. They will work for less than minimum and their is a job open for them.

Nope.. generally they will go back to their country of origin.. just like they do when the economy in America slides and work for them begins to dry up.

Let me drop you off in Oklahoma city with no money, food, or water after you have not eaten for 3 days and let us see if you can walk back to Mexico or Columbia on nothing. No they will rob someone or some place before they starve to death. Please.

 

[jaeger19]

There is a shortage of doctors maybe we can pick some of them up off the street corner and put them to work operating on people like yourself and your family. Look how much they will bring down the cost of health care. They will work for less than minimum and their is a job open for them.
.

Actually that is pretty much what happens.. that's why you see so many foreign trained physicians in America.. particularly in rural areas.. because its a faster route to citizenship if you work in a rural area (then once they have met their requirements they move to greener pastures). Of course its legal immigration.

And in general they do work for less..

but anyway.. I don't really understand your deal? I agree with you that illegal immigrants hurt wages and undermine our labor laws. they do so because they can get hired. And yet.. you seem to not want employers have to obey the law. Which is the real reason that illegal immigrants come here in the first place.. to work.

Let me drop you off in Oklahoma city with no money, food, or water after you have not eaten for 3 days and let us see if you can walk back to Mexico or Columbia on nothing. No they will rob someone or some place before they starve to death. Please.

Except that if they lose their job.. they are not " being dropped off with no money, food or water". If the law was enforced.. and the jobs for illegal immigrants began to decrease.. (as it did during and just after the great recession)..Mexican illegal immigrants would simply take their cars (which they have now).. the money that they have saved, sell their property they don't want to take with them .. etc.. and immigrate back to mexico. As I posted.. we already have had a net flow of immigrants leaving the country.. this has already occurred.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

And that's how it should be.

And that's how it IS RIGHT NOW, how it was before Trump EVER took the oath of office.

What's more, before ANY of her family came here, they ALL had to be vetted by both the local version of the FBI and by the hospital (no TB or other major health issues or infectious diseases) and by the local US embassy. And let's not forget the submission of educational transcripts, photos, fingerprints, and - if other forms of identification are not considered sufficient - DNA testing, too.

Thing is, most conservatives - thanks to Trump telling them in so many words that it's SO easy to immigrate to America that our country's being flooded by murderers and rapists and drug dealers - seem to think that immigrants are hardly being vetted at all. He called for "extreme vetting"...and one wonders just what the hell more can actually be done concerning "vetting" prospective immigrants.

 

[Exactice]

And that's how it IS RIGHT NOW, how it was before Trump EVER took the oath of office.

What's more, before ANY of her family came here, they ALL had to be vetted by both the local version of the FBI and by the hospital (no TB or other major health issues or infectious diseases) and by the local US embassy. And let's not forget the submission of educational transcripts, photos, fingerprints, and - if other forms of identification are not considered sufficient - DNA testing, too.

Thing is, most conservatives - thanks to Trump telling them in so many words that it's SO easy to immigrate to America that our country's being flooded by murderers and rapists and drug dealers - seem to think that immigrants are hardly being vetted at all. He called for "extreme vetting"...and one wonders just what the hell more can actually be done concerning "vetting" prospective immigrants.

This is a huge misconception. I agree... with another member here even I got "caught" up in the wrong assumptions there.


BUT the fact of the matter is. I am sure per your experience you know the process is LONG but its NOT that difficult. There are youtube videos, step by step checklist for you LOTS of resources to learn and do your LEGAL immigration process. That goes for if you have the money to higher an immigration Lawyer to do it all for you. Which lets face it many low income do not, I did NOT need a lawyer for my wife, as I took the initiative to educate myself on the process. She is here, took 2 years but now year 5, 2 beautiful children happy as can be.


THAT being said, ITS NOT LEGAL Immigration initially as the PROBLEM either, we are Addressing Illegals and THOSE that are actual Criminals out side of breaking Federal immigration law by overstaying visa's or illegal border crossing.


The Next point is REFUGEE stats and TPS, many of these do have vetting process, but HOW much is TOO MUCH? if we have a limited 1mill per year cap, But one year we allow 800,000 DACA, the next year we allow 250,000 Syrians, 100,000 El Salvadorians... can we say this is PART of the 1mill per year cap so ALL others that are applying get pushed back next year and the next year and the next year.



With my Other thread to POINT out the discussing of LEGAL immigration vs Illegal Immigration, and NOT combining the 2, which BOTH sides are guilty of heck I am guilt of it to..... Where is the ACTUAL line drawn on FEDERAL LAW and when will it be properly enforced?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

This is a huge misconception. I agree... with another member here even I got "caught" up in the wrong assumptions there.


BUT the fact of the matter is. I am sure per your experience you know the process is LONG but its NOT that difficult. There are youtube videos, step by step checklist for you LOTS of resources to learn and do your LEGAL immigration process. That goes for if you have the money to higher an immigration Lawyer to do it all for you. Which lets face it many low income do not, I did NOT need a lawyer for my wife, as I took the initiative to educate myself on the process. She is here, took 2 years but now year 5, 2 beautiful children happy as can be.


THAT being said, ITS NOT LEGAL Immigration initially as the PROBLEM either, we are Addressing Illegals and THOSE that are actual Criminals out side of breaking Federal immigration law by overstaying visa's or illegal border crossing.


The Next point is REFUGEE stats and TPS, many of these do have vetting process, but HOW much is TOO MUCH? if we have a limited 1mill per year cap, But one year we allow 800,000 DACA, the next year we allow 250,000 Syrians, 100,000 El Salvadorians... can we say this is PART of the 1mill per year cap so ALL others that are applying get pushed back next year and the next year and the next year.



With my Other thread to POINT out the discussing of LEGAL immigration vs Illegal Immigration, and NOT combining the 2, which BOTH sides are guilty of heck I am guilt of it to..... Where is the ACTUAL line drawn on FEDERAL LAW and when will it be properly enforced?

There's two ways to stop illegal immigration. One is through government-encouraged racism (which is what Trump is effectively doing), and the other is through making the other nations prosperous and safe enough that they have no desire to come here. America has a long, long tradition of welcoming immigrants - including refugees - and it's tragic watching Trump take the words of the poem at the base of our Statue of Liberty ("give me your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse") and rip them apart. He cares NOTHING about whether they're legal or illegal as long as they're white - hence his "s**thole countries" statement, his "Nigerians won't go back to their huts" statement, his "Haitians all have AIDS" statement.

And here's the thing - Trump really isn't the problem - he's the symptom. In fact, your entire comment above is another symptom of the same problem. Why? What we're watching in America today is something that's happened all over the world throughout human history - it's what I feel should be a sociological rule or tenet: Every nation has one and only one socioeconomically-dominant demographic - only one demographic that is richer and more influential than all the others...and that demographic may be racial, ethnic, or religious in nature. When that demographic (rightly or wrongly) feels that its dominance is being threatened, it will take whatever action it believes is necessary to preserve its own dominance.

And in America, the socioeconomically-dominant demographic are the WASP's, the "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants", and they feel their dominance is threatened by other races and religions. And so they elected Trump. And most WASPs are increasingly afraid of the influx of those who are not WASPs.

 

[Nickyjo]

Its worse than that.

300,000 DACA persons
X 2 parents = Add 600,000
X 2 siblings = Add 600,000

Add chain migration = hundreds of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. Thus the immigrants are basically in charge of who comes in.

The democrats want to preserve chain migration to fill the chute for the day democrats take over and grant amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal aliens who have flowed in looking for any work at any wage, and in the meantime work cash, draw welfare, Medicaid, and education on your dime.

Did you get your facts from Trump? And if a immigrant can cross illegally, work for cash, draw welfare, get Medicaid and an education, and get relatives here, I want more of those highly skilled folks here.

 

[Exactice]

There's two ways to stop illegal immigration. One is through government-encouraged racism (which is what Trump is effectively doing), and the other is through making the other nations prosperous and safe enough that they have no desire to come here. America has a long, long tradition of welcoming immigrants - including refugees - and it's tragic watching Trump take the words of the poem at the base of our Statue of Liberty ("give me your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse") and rip them apart. He cares NOTHING about whether they're legal or illegal as long as they're white - hence his "s**thole countries" statement, his "Nigerians won't go back to their huts" statement, his "Haitians all have AIDS" statement.

And here's the thing - Trump really isn't the problem - he's the symptom. In fact, your entire comment above is another symptom of the same problem. Why? What we're watching in America today is something that's happened all over the world throughout human history - it's what I feel should be a sociological rule or tenet: Every nation has one and only one socioeconomically-dominant demographic - only one demographic that is richer and more influential than all the others...and that demographic may be racial, ethnic, or religious in nature. When that demographic (rightly or wrongly) feels that its dominance is being threatened, it will take whatever action it believes is necessary to preserve its own dominance.

And in America, the socioeconomically-dominant demographic are the WASP's, the "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants", and they feel their dominance is threatened by other races and religions. And so they elected Trump. And most WASPs are increasingly afraid of the influx of those who are not WASPs.

I agree with Half your points LOL..... that being said.... Trump is a pompous @SS and needs a muzzle, but I personally agree with his policies.... Also to me the difference is he is enforcing current laws... DACA BTW was an executive action not a legislated one.... Anyways.

Getting to my point and your point.. about symptoms and cause... I agree.... wholeheartedly. outside of WASP... I really dont see "race" as an issue any more. Its pretty much MONEY...

Blacks, Whites, Asians, Mexicans etc all have classes.... Ultra rich, rich, middle, poor...... We have it all... The ultra rich and rich want to stay Rich and the middle and Poor Want to be Rich..... it is what it is.


NO one wants to be low wage low skilled workers.... But with the American Dream we are promised, Riches..... right out of the box, you go to college you land a job at apple or google or yahoo and make $100,000's I work in an industry that is a pseudo Multi level marketing scheme... you bring in 10 people we will give you X amount plus X bonus blah blah. They are all gung ho.... but when the SHTF....they realize they can make it cause they DONT want to work hard for it... they quit...... ENDLESS cycle..... SAD and true.....

so We have the "American Class" 1st world mentality.... that working minimum wage in the sun and getting dirty is beneath us.....We have 3rd world Class that are willing to DO whatever it takes to GET OUT OF their 3rd world scenario...... and back fill all the jobs our First Class Americans dont want..... we are just imploding our system...... resources are NOT limitless........ we are like a locust reproduce exhaust all resources and then die........

NO self respect nor self accountability.

 

[Exactice]

So Today, I watched an interview that bothered me.

DACA interviewee stated that she was brought in on a tourist VISA and overstayed here VISA as a child. Applied and qualified for DACA.

So this DACA person is now asking for Amnesty? Am I getting this right?

So the family knew how to APPLY for a VISA, came on a 3 month tourist VISA and decided to over stay it. Now they reside in America Illegally And they qualify for DACA protection? Am I getting this right?


We need to screen out DACA...... the hearts and minds wants to say for those that "had" no choice. The above example CHOSE to over stay a legitimate applied VISA. I thought DACA was like a smuggled child or a child brought across the border illegally. I know "Intent" is discussed in many litigation. When you apply for a VISA it states its specifics. they had the INTENT to over stay it. I say thats WAY worse than just running your kid across the boarder being an illegal in the first place? Secondly if they were applying and got a VISA, why NOT continue to apply the rest of the way... Work Visa, etc etc... they went that far.....


The Child stating second Class Citizen, NO the CHILD gets the benefits IF vote in favor, NO difference. BUT the Parents BROKE the law so the benefits FROM the Child DO NOT apply. The parents are subject to Immigration LAW, you can sponsor anyone else, that is legally able to enter the USA, but parents broke it... you dont give amnesty to those that broke the law intent-fully.

 

[Lord of Planar]

So Today, I watched an interview that bothered me.

DACA interviewee stated that she was brought in on a tourist VISA and overstayed here VISA as a child. Applied and qualified for DACA.

So this DACA person is now asking for Amnesty? Am I getting this right?

So the family knew how to APPLY for a VISA, came on a 3 month tourist VISA and decided to over stay it. Now they reside in America Illegally And they qualify for DACA protection? Am I getting this right?


We need to screen out DACA...... the hearts and minds wants to say for those that "had" no choice. The above example CHOSE to over stay a legitimate applied VISA. I thought DACA was like a smuggled child or a child brought across the border illegally. I know "Intent" is discussed in many litigation. When you apply for a VISA it states its specifics. they had the INTENT to over stay it. I say thats WAY worse than just running your kid across the boarder being an illegal in the first place? Secondly if they were applying and got a VISA, why NOT continue to apply the rest of the way... Work Visa, etc etc... they went that far.....


The Child stating second Class Citizen, NO the CHILD gets the benefits IF vote in favor, NO difference. BUT the Parents BROKE the law so the benefits FROM the Child DO NOT apply. The parents are subject to Immigration LAW, you can sponsor anyone else, that is legally able to enter the USA, but parents broke it... you dont give amnesty to those that broke the law intent-fully.

The nuances are probably one reason why there is no agreement in the law details.

 

[jaeger19]

So Today, I watched an interview that bothered me.

DACA interviewee stated that she was brought in on a tourist VISA and overstayed here VISA as a child. Applied and qualified for DACA.

So this DACA person is now asking for Amnesty? Am I getting this right?

So the family knew how to APPLY for a VISA, came on a 3 month tourist VISA and decided to over stay it. Now they reside in America Illegally And they qualify for DACA protection? Am I getting this right?

Yep... what the issue?

At the end of the day.. the child was brought here by their parents and are illegal because of their parents actions.

 

[Exactice]

The nuances are probably one reason why there is no agreement in the law details.

Its weird, how you quantify it.... I agree probably one of the greater issues... for one, Its all or nothing, for others its for a specific pin hole group.

Yep... what the issue?

At the end of the day.. the child was brought here by their parents and are illegal because of their parents actions.

Well we are playing "Hearts and Minds" When we say DACA Kids in the first place right? BUT the parents took the time to apply for a tourist visa. Registered and knew the laws. The intent is much greater in my mind than just running across the border, kids in tow. By using a visa knowing they have 90 day max stay and intent-fully overstayed the visa. More so ICE has a right to deport them even more. this shows that we are NOT even enforcing existing laws. Also when they say "doing the right thing" Well the weren't they OVERSTAYED a VISA intentionally, IN addition to be a long term illegal immigrant, Thats like insult to injury?

Those people that overstayed visa should have been removed on the day it expired, they didnt leave the country NO? Its not like a person that snuck through the system and was not even on the RADAR, these people had tourist VISAs to begin with.


This to ME makes the system even more skeptical. I never even thought of how easy this would be then, get a 90 day visa to enter the country... bang you are in, overstay apply for DACA pray for Amnesty and you are good....

At least the guys smuggling kids and running borders got some kinda negligence plea.... these guys are using more loopholes?? Didnt even THINK about this....

 

[jaeger19]

Well we are playing "Hearts and Minds" When we say DACA Kids in the first place right? ....

Nope.. they came here as kids and were not responsible for coming or staying here illegally. That's the definition of DACA..

BUT the parents took the time to apply for a tourist visa. Registered and knew the laws. The intent is much greater in my mind than just running across the border, kids in tow

Well.. please explain how/why the kids are more or less responsible for being here illegally when their parents sneak across the border.. vs the parents taking their kids on vacation.. and then overstaying their visa.

Please explain how the kids are more responsible for what happened in either scenario..

 

[Exactice]

Nope.. they came here as kids and were not responsible for coming or staying here illegally. That's the definition of DACA..



Well.. please explain how/why the kids are more or less responsible for being here illegally when their parents sneak across the border.. vs the parents taking their kids on vacation.. and then overstaying their visa.

Please explain how the kids are more responsible for what happened in either scenario..

The Government knows they came in... The parents acknowledged as Well that they are on a VISA.


A person sneaking across a border, did not meet with a customs/embassy agent to discuss entering the STATES legally. The above mention DID, they also declared their children with some kind of identification,


So again, with the parents sneaking a kid(s) we can use the excuse of pure negligence.

With the VISA parents there was in "Intent" more so meeting with a customs agent, they knowingly lied and put their child in jeopardy the same way BUT if all things equal if we had 1 to 1 ICE agents. the VISA over-stayers would be quickly deported vs the person illegally sneaking in the border as the ICE agent has no IDEA whom and how many.


So I would "feel" more obliged to those that just SNUCK in the border rather than those that went through a legal process (like a Tourist VISA) and intent-fully over stayed their VISA more so over stayed for YEARS....


*EDIT*

"Please explain how the kids are more responsible for what happened in either scenario.."

Sorry to answer your last part specifically,

there is NO difference for the KIDS per say..... But the Kid in the video is arguing about being treated as a "Second Class" Citizen in regards to DACA.


Where the child will get amnesty but they cannot SPONSOR their parents.... I know we discussed this in another thread that you said you were OK as well as I that the child is good to go, but the parent MUST be held to immigration law so they are out.

I agree. but the DACA recipient is arguing that they are not given the same full fledged rights as an American Citizen.


TO ME the CHILD again if voted could get their amnesty. BUT any parent that broke the law is exclude from Sponsorship. Again the VISA over stay is EVEN MORE of a reason to exclude them now, rather than just running across a boarder. They MET with a custom agent......... thats INTENT....

 

[Exactice]

WOW more reading is making this Rabbit hole go deep.


1) US Citizens have the ability to waive/exempt Immediate relatives of the BAR for unlawful immigration status. MEANING the PARENT is under unlawful immigration status, as Immediate family and the child is given Citizenship their immediate relative is EXEMPT of the barring process... This is A NO GO for me.


2) This also means that of AGE DACA recipients to apply under Adjustment of STATUS. Meaning Marriage, Work Sponsor or FAMILY Sponsor.... so DACA recipients that DO qualify could technically apply for AOS and legally remain. WTF are they waiting for, that is those that are able to remain?



https://citizenpath.com/marriage-us-citizen-visa-overstay/



BTW here is the DUMB video I was watching earlier


"because You Came Here Illegally That's Why!!" Tucker Throttles "former Dreamer" On Immigration - YouTube

 

[Lord of Planar]

Its weird, how you quantify it.... I agree probably one of the greater issues... for one, Its all or nothing, for others its for a specific pin hole group.



Well we are playing "Hearts and Minds" When we say DACA Kids in the first place right? BUT the parents took the time to apply for a tourist visa. Registered and knew the laws. The intent is much greater in my mind than just running across the border, kids in tow. By using a visa knowing they have 90 day max stay and intent-fully overstayed the visa. More so ICE has a right to deport them even more. this shows that we are NOT even enforcing existing laws. Also when they say "doing the right thing" Well the weren't they OVERSTAYED a VISA intentionally, IN addition to be a long term illegal immigrant, Thats like insult to injury?

Those people that overstayed visa should have been removed on the day it expired, they didnt leave the country NO? Its not like a person that snuck through the system and was not even on the RADAR, these people had tourist VISAs to begin with.


This to ME makes the system even more skeptical. I never even thought of how easy this would be then, get a 90 day visa to enter the country... bang you are in, overstay apply for DACA pray for Amnesty and you are good....

At least the guys smuggling kids and running borders got some kinda negligence plea.... these guys are using more loopholes?? Didnt even THINK about this....

I'm OK with letting the innocent stay, esecially those who have known nothing else. I just want those loopholes closed, and illegal immigration dealt with before proceeding to that point.

 

[Exactice]

I'm OK with letting the innocent stay, esecially those who have known nothing else. I just want those loopholes closed, and illegal immigration dealt with before proceeding to that point.

Im with you on this one, Jaeger has provided lots of info to justify the Innocent. I 100% agree though before this happens LOOP HOLES gotta go.........

 

[radcen]

Such a simple solution for this whole issue. If you were brought here illegally as a minor and have lived here for at least 7 years as a minor, when you turn 18, you go the head of the line to apply for legal status. As long as you had no juvenile convictions, you graduated high school or are on the path to graduation and have a proven track record of being a positive member of your community, you get to jump the line. Sorry, mom and dad, but you still need to go home.

Not exactly my ideal, but I would accept this as a reasonable compromise.

 

[ludin]

Nope.. they came here as kids and were not responsible for coming or staying here illegally. That's the definition of DACA..



Well.. please explain how/why the kids are more or less responsible for being here illegally when their parents sneak across the border.. vs the parents taking their kids on vacation.. and then overstaying their visa.

Please explain how the kids are more responsible for what happened in either scenario..

No but they are responsible now for being here illegally.

Key facts about ?Dreamers? enrolled in DACA | Pew Research Center

Those 25 and younger make up two-thirds of active DACA recipients – 29% are ages 16-20 and 37% are ages 21-25. About a quarter (24%) are ages 26-30, while one-in-ten (11%) are ages 31-36.

They are responsible because they are by law required to have permission to be here. at age 18 they should know if they are a legal citizen. if they are not then they should have started the process
of being naturalized. when you are 25 30 you are now just flaunting the law on purpose.

people keep acting like these are babies who can't do anything or themselves and they aren't. almost 70% of them are 21 or older.
there isn't an excuse as to why they are not taking steps to be here legally.

whether it is a student visa or attempting to get their green card.

 

[jaeger19]

No but they are responsible now for being here illegally.

Key facts about ?Dreamers? enrolled in DACA | Pew Research Center

Those 25 and younger make up two-thirds of active DACA recipients – 29% are ages 16-20 and 37% are ages 21-25. About a quarter (24%) are ages 26-30, while one-in-ten (11%) are ages 31-36.

They are responsible because they are by law required to have permission to be here. at age 18 they should know if they are a legal citizen. if they are not then they should have started the process
of being naturalized. when you are 25 30 you are now just flaunting the law on purpose.

people keep acting like these are babies who can't do anything or themselves and they aren't. almost 70% of them are 21 or older.
there isn't an excuse as to why they are not taking steps to be here legally.

whether it is a student visa or attempting to get their green card.

Yeah.. they could not start the process of naturalization. Which is what we have been discussing. Since they were brought here illegally.. they are illegal and according to immigration law.. they must leave the country for 10 years before they can apply.

That's the issue with DACA.. because they were brought here illegally.. they CANNOT avail themselves the usual means of naturalization because they have lived here illegally too long as children.

 

[ludin]

Yeah.. they could not start the process of naturalization. Which is what we have been discussing. Since they were brought here illegally.. they are illegal and according to immigration law.. they must leave the country for 10 years before they can apply.

That's the issue with DACA.. because they were brought here illegally.. they CANNOT avail themselves the usual means of naturalization because they have lived here illegally too long as children.

Sorry. if i break the law i have to face the consequences of said actions.
They are no different.

They are now willingly breaking the law. There are hardship waivers they can get there is a system and a process and if by ages 25 and 30
you haven't done it yet then well you are simply thumbing your nose at the system.

 

[jaeger19]

Sorry. if i break the law i have to face the consequences of said actions.
They are no different.

They are now willingly breaking the law. There are hardship waivers they can get there is a system and a process and if by ages 25 and 30
you haven't done it yet then well you are simply thumbing your nose at the system.

And now we are back to the fact that not knowingly break the law.



They are now trying NOT to break the law... thus signing up for DACA... because the alternative would be to leave the country that they have grown up in.. .to move to another country where they may not speak the language and most likely don't read and write it.. or were educated in that language and culture.

There are hardship waivers they can get there is a system and a process and if by ages 25 and 30
you haven't done it yet then well you are simply thumbing your nose at the system.

No again. its not that simple.

 

[ludin]

And now we are back to the fact that not knowingly break the law.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. They know for a fact they are not allowed to be here is against the law.

They are now trying NOT to break the law... thus signing up for DACA... because the alternative would be to leave the country that they have grown up in.. .to move to another country where they may not speak the language and most likely don't read and write it.. or were educated in that language and culture.

Sorry again if I have to face consequences for breaking the law so do they. Equal protection is there for a reason.
DACA itself is legally questionable. It was passed under the same EO as DAPA which was found unconstitutional.

No again. its not that simple.

Actually it is. We have laws and systems in place for a reason.

 

[jaeger19]

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. They know for a fact they are not allowed to be here is against the law.
.

Hmmm.. so if a four year old is taken for a ride in a stolen car... they should be charged with vehicular theft because ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Sorry again if I have to face consequences for breaking the law so do they. Equal protection is there for a reason.

There are all sorts of exceptions for you "breaking the law".. from taxes. to firearms to a whole host of other things. Particularly when you had no intent or knowledge you were committing a crime.

Actually it is. We have laws and systems in place for a reason.

I see.... so you agree with all gun bans and gun laws restricting gun ownership.. because of course they are in place for a reason?

Somehow I doubt you would agree.

thanks for playing..

 

[ludin]

Hmmm.. so if a four year old is taken for a ride in a stolen car... they should be charged with vehicular theft because ignorance of the law is no excuse.

take your fallacy arguments elsewhere. if you can't actually argue the point then just say so.

There are all sorts of exceptions for you "breaking the law".. from taxes. to firearms to a whole host of other things. Particularly when you had no intent or knowledge you were committing a crime.

Good luck with that get back to me on how that works out.

I see.... so you agree with all gun bans and gun laws restricting gun ownership.. because of course they are in place for a reason?

Somehow I doubt you would agree.

thanks for playing..

Yes thanks for playing since you can't actually argue what is being discussed. just one fallacy after another.

 

[Mr Person]

I'm OK with letting the innocent stay, esecially those who have known nothing else. I just want those loopholes closed, and illegal immigration dealt with before proceeding to that point.

This is called wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

You know full well that either demand would take quite a while to deal with. You also know that the dreamers are going to be deported in not all that long time. So if someone agreed to your demands, you'd first get your demands met. But then, you'd never have to live up to your end of the bargain because the dreamers would already be gone.








Who gets to decide that "loopsholes" have been closed and illegal immigration "dealt" with, by the way? Like it or not, this isn't a purely conservative country. If something is to be done it is going to have to be bipartisan, in which case, you probably aren't going to agree that things were dealt with anyway.