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Criticizing your Country is Unpatrioic

Yes really and moreso than Afghanistan. We didn't send troops to South Vietnam to change the government. We did it to help The Republic of Vietnam to defend herself from a communist invasion.

That was an element of it. There was still some nation building to be done to get them to where they could stand on their own. It's a different situation to be sure, but there's some similarity there.
 
May be because we are being told that, voting for A, B or C makes one, an idiot a racist, or just plain brain dead. So country and inhabitants are clearly associated with government.

My point is that the country and its government are 2 separate entities. We The People created the government in 1787.

As Mark Twain noted, patriotism means supporting your country all of the time, and its government only when it deserves to be supported.

Taking the country to war under fraud is against the law. Attacking and nullifying parts of the US Constitution is also against the law. Those who did that do not deserve support, they deserve condemnation and prosecution or impeachment.
 
You're voicing the heart of the miscommunication.

I really don't think I am. Although, I will say this, I'm sure most of those players will rally behind the flag when--and whenever--a Democrat is in office and says we have to go bomb the hell out of some relatively poor, developing country, because we need to bring "freedom," "democracy," and "love" by murder and mayhem. Like the Devil trying to sucker Jesus in the desert quoting scripture and trying to appeal to man's ego that desires to be the ruler of all of planet earth.


I'm Black and you have to understand that from the beginning of this nation Blacks heard about American freedom and equality and were baffled by why none of that applied to them.


I hear what you are trying to say, SonofD. I don't really disagree. Well I do but just in a different sense. For one, America has screwed ethnic Black-Americans over many generations. I think most Black-Americans know why though in a certain sense at least: racism. And I'm not saying that word in a superficial sense. I'm speaking to a more, to a deeper emotional and psychological sense of racism, as both to how it impacts developing white kids and developing black kids. Any kids of any race actually. In whatever conflicting ways mulattoes don't escape it either.

I'm a big believer in that you have to catch, and begin, a child's (of any race, hue, ethnicity, religion etc.) character development, morally and in self esteem, very early and their is often only a short window of time to work in. However, later traumatic or super positive events can radically alter even some traits developed in early childhood.

Anyways... I'm saying this because while I do think institutional racism exists on many police forces, I think the more urgent and vastly larger problem is the wide spread familial and community problems in Black-America. No, it's not all black families. And no, I'm not saying their is never any good, never any smiles, never and kindness, never any peace or good times in Black-American communities. There are. Just as they exist in the far more dilapidated Brazilian favelas or Colombian slums. But I'm talking about a matter of great social pathologies and greater scales of moral break downs, sheer hatreds, rage, and for some many despair, flooding into those homes and communities.

This is why I am fiscally *liberal* even though I acknowledge nearly anyone can (meaning it is possible--possible does not mean easy or quickly) become rich in the United States. The fact of that matter is few will. Because the American story as popularly given is damn lie. To become competitively great (like these NFL players are, but in business or anything) is significantly a psychological, emotional, effort that also requires competent and stable support systems such as mentors (be they wise parents or other coaches). And it requires from some person or organization or institution some money or resources poured into the development of that kid. You can even look at gangs or the mafia as being these kinds of things for young people on a criminal career path.

Most Americans of any race or ethnicity will never get any of this. I suppose, the American Jews and American East Indians are some exceptions to this. Way down at the bottom of the list you will find ethnic groups like Black-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Amerindians of certain "tribes." There are a few Amerindian tribes that are exceptions and in terms of money their tribes (from successful casinos) are up there with the Jews. But overall most Amerindians do even worse than Black-Americans (see who has more doctoral degrees, more members in Congress and Government, more wealth entrepreneurs etc.) And I'm going to hazard a guess Puerto Ricans have not statistically been as successful rising upward as Black-Americans. At least the non-white Puerto Ricans.
 
This country was founded in 1776 but it's not until the 1960's after much struggle that we began seeing the promise of the American promise.

That's our relationship with America. We love the idea of America, of freedom and equality under the law but we're still struggling to get that.

Read Dr King's speech again. And you'll hear the same plea for America to live up to it's wonderful creed.

That's where these men are coming from. They're not disrespecting the flag. That's not their intent. They want to bring attention to what they believe is injustice. If you disagree ignore them. But what we have is angry people trying to force them to stand.

Forcing people to stand is not patriotic nor American. The president wants to bully people into standing. What is gained by this?


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Actually, I think the Baby Boomers have done a good job of selling themselves to younger generations as the first Black-American generation that suddenly got Black-Americans the right to get rich. This is not true and to a large extent the 1960s and afterwards started taking Black-Americans economically backwards.

What Baby Boomers did do was get black and white men to pee next to each other in public bathrooms, it got interracial more widely accepted, they helped reduce (but not eliminate) a lot of the racial tensions socially. But the economic and family life factors plunged backwards--excepted for tokens percentage wise of the black population.

Consider, as a class required book I read in college some years ago pointed out, today many Black-Americans still get rich from entertainment as generations of the did back in the early 20th century. The book pointed out Oprah Winfrey and sports players like those in the NFL, these are all entertainers. White people still produce the rich that develop earth moving machinery, tech companies, large General Contractor companies that build roads or sports arenas. They and the Jews run and own the vast majority of banks and other financial institutions. Most Black-American businesses only employ 1 person (themselves) to a few people. Back doing Jim Crow you found the same thing but those black businesses were more prevalent. I'm Gen X. I saw with my own eyes the last of them. All generations after me have never seen them. They don't even know they existed. To major reasons those small black businesses went out of business: (1) with the end of Jim Crow middle-class and rich blacks left the neighborhoods of poor blacks (they used to all live in the same neighborhoods). And (2) the crime, theft, robbery shot up so much in those older black neighborhoods that were left behind to poor blacks that the black business owners (usually old men old enough to retire) began selling off to Arabs and Koreans. Ergo, the famous "A-Rabs" that operate stores in the black hood.
 
Nope. Can be, needn't be.

My point is, we didn't go to South Vietnam to change the government. We went to help an allie defend against a communist invasion.
 
These NFL jackasses don't love their country.

You actually are not qualified to speak on this. You cannot know how they feel, and your interpretation of their behavior is based on YOUR beliefs, making that interpretation irrelevant.
 
My point is, we didn't go to South Vietnam to change the government. We went to help an allie defend against a communist invasion.

Like we went to Iraq to get rid of the WMD?

Don't forget Our Boy Diem.....
 
You actually are not qualified to speak on this. You cannot know how they feel, and your interpretation of their behavior is based on YOUR beliefs, making that interpretation irrelevant.

I'm just as qualified as the Liberals that accuse everyone they disagree with of being a racist.

Double standard noted.
 
If the shoe fits, wear it. Diem was installed by US.

The Republic of Vietnam was being invaded by communists. They asked for our help in defending against that invasion.
 
The Republic of Vietnam was being invaded by communists. They asked for our help in defending against that invasion.

Yes, after we installed Diem, he asked for our help.

Have you watched any of the recent series on PBS by Ken Burns? All those memories....
 
I'm just as qualified as the Liberals that accuse everyone they disagree with of being a racist.

Double standard noted.

No double standard since I said nothing about what you said above. In fact, I have said many times that anyone who is always looking for racism will likely find it whether it is there or not.

Avoidance of what I stated and trying to change the topic is noted.
 
No double standard since I said nothing about what you said above. In fact, I have said many times that anyone who is always looking for racism will likely find it whether it is there or not.

Avoidance of what I stated and trying to change the topic is noted.

We never see you rave on about that.
 
We never see you rave on about that.

Of course I do. I've said what I stated in the post you quoted a lot of times.

Now, stop dancing and changing the topic... standard apdst behavior. What we were discussing was your ridiculous comment that tried to equate the behavior of the NFL players as un-American, which as I said, is your interpretation based on your beliefs which makes your interpretation irrelevant in context. Do you have anything to say that challenges my comment or do you want to, conveniently, continue to ignore it?
 
Of course I do. I've said what I stated in the post you quoted a lot of times.

Now, stop dancing and changing the topic... standard apdst behavior. What we were discussing was your ridiculous comment that tried to equate the behavior of the NFL players as un-American, which as I said, is your interpretation based on your beliefs which makes your interpretation irrelevant in context. Do you have anything to say that challenges my comment or do you want to, conveniently, continue to ignore it?

Ah! Make it personal. Typical Captain Courtesy behavior.
 
Ah! Make it personal. Typical Captain Courtesy behavior.

So, still avoiding what we were discussing. Do you EVER actually respond on topic after being confronted on what you say? From what I see, you pretty much never do.
 
Maybe because the topic isn’t him?

What you’re saying is that no ones opinion of another’s actions is relevant. So then why the **** are we all talking about it? Everyone can just STFU and go home now.


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