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Criticizing your Country is Unpatrioic

Patriotism isn't blind allegiance to people or policy. It's loyalty to an ideal - to principle. If you feel that an injustice has been committed, or ideals or principles have been betrayed, you should speak out in defense of them and speak out to preserve what you feel is great and what you love about your country.
 
It's historical fact.

Actually, it's not. You don't speak for each and every person who protested the Vietnam War. No one does.
 
There is no government corruption in America.
There is no police corruption in America.
There is no injustice in America.
America is the greatest nation on Earth and has no flaws.

If you don't agree that America is perfect then you don't love America and should go find another country to live in.

Even Trump is unpatriotic with his "Make America Great Again." How dare he imply that America is not great! It's always been great and will always be great.

The American Federal government is great. The IRS is great. Everything about America is great.

I have flag pins on all my shirts and a tattoo of the flag on my chest. I stand for the anthem even if I'm at home alone. I pledge allegiance to the flag every morning and before I go to bed.

That's how much I love this great country of ours.

--American Conservative

Our country was founded by men who rebelled against their country and their flag. These men took great care to allow us the freedom to overthrow our government if it begins to oppress us. They didn't trust government. They understood that government can be corrupt.

So, what's with all the patriotism nonsense? What's with the black and white either you support the police or you're against them? Why do some think police (government workers with guns) corruption doesn't exist? What's up with questioning our fellow citizen's patriotism?

There are people in this Country who simply can't handle a Black Man not taking orders ...

If these people can't handle a Man peacefully taking a knee in protest, then they certainly won;t be able to handle what comes after peacefully taking a knee in protest.
 
Actually, it's not. You don't speak for each and every person who protested the Vietnam War. No one does.

I never said every single one. I actually stated otherwise.
 
Patriotism isn't blind allegiance to people or policy. It's loyalty to an ideal - to principle. If you feel that an injustice has been committed, or ideals or principles have been betrayed, you should speak out in defense of them and speak out to preserve what you feel is great and what you love about your country.

These NFL jackasses don't love their country.
 
Name one time that anti-war idiots protested for a more lethal wartime strategy to achieve a quick victory.

And are more lethal tactics always the best one?

If you stop trying wrap bad logic in the flag, you would have no basis to defend it. That is why I mentioned WW1, European leaders made the same arguments you made and all that did was get millions of people killed and created the USSR and Nazi Germany. Take the flag out of your logic and it doesn't hold up.

Don't blame me if Trump now opposes the Iraq war now, is he un American under your logic?
 
And are more lethal tactics always the best one?

If you stop trying wrap bad logic in the flag, you would have no basis to defend it. That is why I mentioned WW1, European leaders made the same arguments you made and all that did was get millions of people killed and created the USSR and Nazi Germany. Take the flag out of your logic and it doesn't hold up.

Don't blame me if Trump now opposes the Iraq war now, is he un American under your logic?

Yes....
 
BROAD BRUSH ALERT.......
BROAD BRUSH ALERT.......
BROAD BRUSH ALERT.......

Just because folks don't agree with the poop you are slinging doesn't mean they deny your right to sling poop....

I notice when people are cornered by logic they give crap replies like yours.

We're a country built by men who rebelled against their flag and government because they felt oppressed. Then they created a country where dissent would be tolerated.

But you want a country where everyone stands for the anthem because they're afraid not to. Compulsory anthem standing.

Patriotism is a form of love. You can't make expressing patriotism legally or socially compulsory without killing its spirit.

Standing for the anthem is only a meaningful expression of patriotism if sitting is also tolerated and accepted.

But continue with more poop talk instead of rationally addressing this point.


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I agree. But standing or sitting during the anthem should be something done voluntarily. If someone feels that the nation is not keeping it's promise of freedom for all it feels hollow to them. And forcing everyone to stand through social pressure makes the entire thing hollow and utterly empty.



No, you're spitting on the flag. You're spitting on freedom and creating a nation where social pressure and fear of losing your job compels you to stand. Standing for the anthem becomes an empty meaningless compulsion.

Notice how I interpreted what you said as "spitting"? See, how unfair it is. There was no spitting. They didn't spit. You didn't spit. They are supporting true American ideals of equality. It takes courage.

The NFL rules state that they have to stand for the anthem. This country will never be perfect so showing disrespect for the greatest country on the planet just because it isn't perfect is nonsense. Everyone can find things that aren't perfect in the country so what do we do, pull the flag down and not sing the national anthem anymore anywhere?
 
Constructively criticizing our country, while offering solutions, is very patriotic. When done respectfully and factually, most will listen.
 
Well, we know all 4 of those are wrong. The United States is a long shot from being the greatest country in the world: just look at that ecological disaster called the City of LA. :lol:




You are correct that patriotism does not mean being silent nor following your country into great errors if it is going that route.

I prefer to separate the concepts of nationalism from patriotism. Their are plenty of people in other countries who are patriotic towards their country but also don't boast with some religious fervor that their country is simply and totally the best country on earth. Or some might feel that way but be more sober about and be like, "For me [x country, say Italy or Spain or Morocco etc.] is the best country on earth."

And patriots unlike nationalists, usually don't feel compelled to join their country in storytelling of hate against another country or people (say, Jews or Russians), under the proposition "we all have to stick together on this."

But sticking together honoring the nationalists flag (in this case Old Glory) is probably a lot less harmful than sticking together to bomb Syrians, Libyans, Iranians, North Koreans, and if Americans are actually dumb enough: Russia.

But what is protesting to honor the American flag supposed to mean? It means you are protesting the National identity with its concept of "one nation" united. At least that is what I am certain they all are protesting.

They could claim another meaning (though I think they all would be lying): they are giving a symbol of duress within the country.

In the military you are taught a number of ways to symbolically communicate to fellow American forces that you or both you and your troops are under duress. I'll tell you one. You run the American flag upside down.

So, they could [be dishonest and] claim they are kneeling etc., to communicate the country is under duress. But they could have verbalized that from the beginning if that were there intent.





As a side note.... for all those that claim to be soooo patriotic but just "hate" Donald Trump who "single handedly divided the country," then one could better be a patriot in modern times if they read up on some of the patriots of the European Dark Ages. Less pampered with far more dangers in all directions (just living was dangerous) their "patriotism" (call it that instead of clan loyalty, tribe loyalty, or loyalty to their kingdom) was often the "Light Ages" compared to our pampered time in which American patriotism is supposed to come with comforts and no pains.

You're voicing the heart of the miscommunication.

I'm Black and you have to understand that from the beginning of this nation Blacks heard about American freedom and equality and were baffled by why none of that applied to them.

This country was founded in 1776 but it's not until the 1960's after much struggle that we began seeing the promise of the American promise.

That's our relationship with America. We love the idea of America, of freedom and equality under the law but we're still struggling to get that.

Read Dr King's speech again. And you'll hear the same plea for America to live up to it's wonderful creed.

That's where these men are coming from. They're not disrespecting the flag. That's not their intent. They want to bring attention to what they believe is injustice. If you disagree ignore them. But what we have is angry people trying to force them to stand.

Forcing people to stand is not patriotic nor American. The president wants to bully people into standing. What is gained by this?


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I notice when people are cornered by logic they give crap replies like yours.

We're a country built by men who rebelled against their flag and government because they felt oppressed. Then they created a country where dissent would be tolerated.

But you want a country where everyone stands for the anthem because they're afraid not to. Compulsory anthem standing.

Patriotism is a form of love. You can't make expressing patriotism legally or socially compulsory without killing its spirit.

Standing for the anthem is only a meaningful expression of patriotism if sitting is also tolerated and accepted.

But continue with more poop talk instead of rationally addressing this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As to your first sentence, I rebel againt hyperbole and broad brush tactics.

And where did I state, infer or imply I wanted everyone to stand? Where did I propose compulsory anthem standing?
 

Yeah, I don't agree, if you look at that at a broad historical context, there have been lethal battles that accomplish nothing, look up the battle of Verdun for example. I think you are taking bad logic and thinking wrapping it in the flag makes it better, even if history says otherwise.
 
There is no government corruption in America.
There is no police corruption in America.
There is no injustice in America.
America is the greatest nation on Earth and has no flaws.

If you don't agree that America is perfect then you don't love America and should go find another country to live in.

Even Trump is unpatriotic with his "Make America Great Again." How dare he imply that America is not great! It's always been great and will always be great.

The American Federal government is great. The IRS is great. Everything about America is great.

I have flag pins on all my shirts and a tattoo of the flag on my chest. I stand for the anthem even if I'm at home alone. I pledge allegiance to the flag every morning and before I go to bed.

That's how much I love this great country of ours.

--American Conservative

Our country was founded by men who rebelled against their country and their flag. These men took great care to allow us the freedom to overthrow our government if it begins to oppress us. They didn't trust government. They understood that government can be corrupt.

So, what's with all the patriotism nonsense? What's with the black and white either you support the police or you're against them? Why do some think police (government workers with guns) corruption doesn't exist? What's up with questioning our fellow citizen's patriotism?
Criticizing your country isnt 'unpatriotic'...its stupid.

Go down your list:
There is no government corruption in America. OF course there is and where it exists it should be identified and dealt with.
There is no police corruption in America. OF COURSE there is...and where it exists it should be identified and dealt with.
There is no injustice in America. OF COURSE there is, and where it exists it should be identified and resolved.
America is the greatest nation on Earth and has no flaws. OF COURSE it is and OF COURSE it has flaws. Show me another country that doesnt have flaws.

But heres the problem. Accepting all those things exist, you MUST also accept that:
Much if not a majority of thegovernment in America is not corrupt.
The VAST majority of the nations million law enforcement officers are rock stars and do heroes work.
There is also justice in America.
America is the greatest nation on Earth but, still has flaws.

Protesting "the country" is as stupid as protesting "the blacks" because a distinct minority of black Americans commit the majority of violent crimes in America. It would be as stupid as condemning all black people because black Americans lead the country in violent crimes, murders, rapes, illiteracy, teen pregnancy, and unemployment among many other categories. Protesting "the country" ignores the great successes many people find here and the tremendous opportunity million of people come here every year to seek.
 
Why is it that so few Americans do not understand the difference between their country and its government? Too many years of brainwashing?
 
Why is it that so few Americans do not understand the difference between their country and its government? Too many years of brainwashing?

May be because we are being told that, voting for A, B or C makes one, an idiot a racist, or just plain brain dead. So country and inhabitants are clearly associated with government.
 
Yes? A state. Not a nation. Nation entails more than the legality of statehood. We were talking natiin.

A "republic" is a nation.
 
Mark Cuban sent his teams own plane to Puerto Rico; loaded with supplies.

That's how a REAL American Billionaire acts.

Where's Trumps plane?

Isn't it parked nowadays?

No one is using it since he prefers to suck off the teat of the American taxpayer.
 
It wasn't nation building. The Republic of Vietnam was already a nation.

Not really. No more than Afghanistan was. They clearly were unable to defend themselves and control their own territory.
 
First off, "feeling like" there is some kind of injustice is meaningless unless there is a rational basis for that "feeling".

No one needs to prove to you that their opinion is true in order to be free to express that opinion.

I might feel like you ripped me off but if you didn't I'm wrong and any protest I make defending my claim is wholly self serving. Are there racists in the US? Sure. Do some people get treated unfairly? Yes. That, however, does not mean that there is "systemic racism". Cops are not out to hunt down black people. Restaurants are not out to ban gay people. Courts are not out to jail people of color.

It sure happens an awful lot not in their favor for there not to be something "systemic" going on.

That's all crazy talk and it's provable as crazy talk because innumerable blacks, gays and other people of color get by every single day without being discriminated against based on one particular characteristic.

Do they? You know this because .... ?

Second, where the heck do you come up with anyone being afraid to stand for the National Anthem? These jackasses are being criticized for acting like spoiled brats.

He wrote "Doesn't standing for the anthem lose all meaning when everyone is afraid not to stand?"
 
Not really. No more than Afghanistan was. They clearly were unable to defend themselves and control their own territory.

Yes really and moreso than Afghanistan. We didn't send troops to South Vietnam to change the government. We did it to help The Republic of Vietnam to defend herself from a communist invasion.
 
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