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► On How Many Counts will Paul Manafort be Found Guilty in Virginia? [Poll Included]

On How Many Counts will Paul Manafort be Found Guilty in Virginia?

  • Total voters
    43
Breaking News on CNN as I type gives me the feeling we can expect significant news ... as in at least a partial verdict... today!

I went conservative on the poll and chose 5 to 8.
 
Moderate Right said:
The jury heard the case. They are the ones who will decide and they will decide fairly. You had Manafort convicted before the trial even started.
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No I didn't. But it seems rather clear that he committed several crimes. I think only the most biased and partisan would deny it.

Whether or not he is punished for it, we shall see. I think he'll walk, but not because he's innocent.
 
Ikari said:
We'll find out, but I'm going to go with zero right now. It would be nice to punish even the rich when they commit crimes, but we don't really do that here. The longer the jury is out, the better it is for the defense. So I'm not going to hold my breath and hope they come back with any convictions.
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My suspicion is there's a few counts that are slam dunk or close to it, a few that are pretty much "no go", and many in the middle that will be well & vigorously deliberated.

I think this is the usual fall-out from an 18 count indictment. Obviously if Manafort pleaded, he would cop to only one or two counts ...
 
Wow, from CNN reporting it looks like it's possible the jury agrees to all but one count. Possibly. The jury asked the judge what to do if they can't agree on one of the counts.
 
Ikari said:
No I didn't. But it seems rather clear that he committed several crimes. I think only the most biased and partisan would deny it.

Whether or not he is punished for it, we shall see. I think he'll walk, but not because he's innocent.
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It's not up to you to decide. It is up to the jury. Your opinion means absolutely nothing. Since the jury haven't reached a verdict yet then there is nothing to deny. And, there is such a thing as reasonable doubt.
 
Trippy Trekker said:
Breaking News on CNN as I type gives me the feeling we can expect significant news ... as in at least a partial verdict... today!

I went conservative on the poll and chose 5 to 8.
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"Great minds ... ", buddy. I went with 5-8 too. With 5-4 minimum.

If the jury's only hung on one count, this is good news for the prosecution I think.
 
Chomsky said:
"Great minds ... ", buddy. I went with 5-8 too. With 5-4 minimum.

If the jury's only hung on one count, this is good news for the prosecution I think.
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So let me ask you something in light of the fact that Manafort will in all probability be found guilty. What's next and how will his conviction change anything?
 
trixare4kids said:
So let me ask you something in light of the fact that Manafort will in all probability be found guilty. What's next and how will his conviction change anything?
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"Change anything", about what?

A criminal will be jailed, and justice will be served.

If he has knowledge of criminal behaviour by others, and he is willing to cooperate to put other criminals behind bars, he might be able to help himself. Those are big "ifs" ...
 
Chomsky said:
"Change anything", about what?

A criminal will be jailed, and justice will be served.

If he has knowledge of criminal behaviour by others, and he is willing to cooperate to put other criminals behind bars, he might be able to help himself. Those are big "ifs" ...
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Are you hoping the squeeze brings the president down?

JFYI, I don't think he will sing because IMO, there's no there, there.
I'm sure I am in the minority here though...
 
Chomsky said:
Sounds to me that this jury is really working!
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Yup, that probably means guilty on 17 counts.

Edit: or not. (That's my cya)
 
trixare4kids said:
Are you hoping the squeeze brings the president down?

JFYI, I don't think he will sing because IMO, there's no there, there.
I'm sure I am in the minority here though...
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If the President, his son, or Kushner, are guilty of criminal actions - yes.

Only these guys (incl Manafort) know what went down in the Trump Towers meeting and elsewhere. As much as Trump disgusts me, I'm surely not going to advocate taking down a lawfully elected President, unless there is evidence to do so.

However, I will say two things:

1] I believe the country would be much better without Trump.
2] I think more went on in the Trump Towers meeting than the participants claim.

But I don't claim to know the facts, and will leave it up to Mueller to find it out. And I'll respect his report and the subsequent actions (or inaction) of Congress.
 
Cardinal said:
Yup, that probably means guilty on 17 counts.

Edit: or not. (That's my cya)
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Hah! :mrgreen:

I'm still going for a mixed verdict, but now leaning more towards a majority (in some form) guilty ...
 
Chomsky said:
Hah! :mrgreen:

I'm still going for a mixed verdict, but now leaning more towards a majority (in some form) guilty ...
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It certainly seems that way.
 
Chomsky said:
Hah! :mrgreen:

I'm still going for a mixed verdict, but now leaning more towards a majority (in some form) guilty ...
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"I wish I could recall the precise details, but I know an AUSA who got a similar note, knew USG wasn't going to retry if jury hung and figured it must be a conviction on other counts, agreed to drop the contested count and then SURPRISE jury came back minutes later with acquittal."

-Susan Hennessey

https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1031931974187970561
 
Chomsky said:
If the President, his son, or Kushner, are guilty of criminal actions - yes.

Only these guys (incl Manafort) know what went down in the Trump Towers meeting and elsewhere. As much as Trump disgusts me, I'm surely not going to advocate taking down a lawfully elected President, unless there is evidence to do so.

However, I will say two things:

1] I believe the country would be much better without Trump.
2] I think more went on in the Trump Towers meeting than the participants claim.

But I don't claim to know the facts, and will leave it up to Mueller to find it out. And I'll respect his report and the subsequent actions (or inaction) of Congress.
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I don't know the facts either, but I will leave you with this opinion piece by Alan Dershowitz... Does what Dershowitz wrote worry you at all? Is this the way you want our justice system to work?

He said it's clear that Mueller's team is targeting Trump and the people around him, and they're attempting to use Manafort to do so.

"He's a means toward the end. And that's just not the way justice should operate," Dershowitz said. "Civil libertarians have long been opposed of that method of squeezing witnesses -- indicting them for kind of unrelated crimes and then trying to get them to testify against more important people."

He added that a concern is that not only will Manafort "sing," he will "compose," meaning that he might make things up or exaggerate because the better story he tells, the better deal he will get.


Dershowitz: Mueller Is 'Squeezing' Manafort to Get to Trump | Fox News Insider
 
trixare4kids said:
I don't know the facts either, but I will leave you with this opinion piece by Alan Dershowitz... Does what Dershowitz wrote worry you at all? Is this the way you want our justice system to work?

He said it's clear that Mueller's team is targeting Trump and the people around him, and they're attempting to use Manafort to do so.

"He's a means toward the end. And that's just not the way justice should operate," Dershowitz said. "Civil libertarians have long been opposed of that method of squeezing witnesses -- indicting them for kind of unrelated crimes and then trying to get them to testify against more important people."

He added that a concern is that not only will Manafort "sing," he will "compose," meaning that he might make things up or exaggerate because the better story he tells, the better deal he will get.


Dershowitz: Mueller Is 'Squeezing' Manafort to Get to Trump | Fox News Insider
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I take it then that you feel that every mob boss who's ever been put away should be free again.
 
Cardinal said:
If there is even one trump supporter on the jury, zero. If there isn't, then about 9-12.
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I thought about that too. In this case, I don't think it would be ZERO. I think it would be a hung jury. He is so blatantly guilty on some counts, that I can't see all the other jurors backing down, and accepting total innocence. I chose 5-8.

Unfortunately, I tend to have more faith in our judicial system, and the rendering of justice. If there is one thing that the entire Trump debaucle has shown, it's that my outlook is somewhat naive.
 
Media_Truth said:
I thought about that too. In this case, I don't think it would be ZERO. I think it would be a hung jury. He is so blatantly guilty on some counts, that I can't see all the other jurors backing down, and accepting total innocence. I chose 5-8.

Unfortunately, I tend to have more faith in our judicial system, and the rendering of justice. If there is one thing that the entire Trump debaucle has shown, it's that my outlook is somewhat naive.
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I meant zero as a result of a hung jury on all counts. Pick any trump supporter at random in this thread alone and imagine how that person would find on all 18 counts.
 
Cardinal said:
I take it then that you feel that every mob boss who's ever been put away should be free again.
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I take it that you aren't bothered by a lack of ethics in our justice system then? It's OK then that Mueller would gun for Trump's prosecution or impeachment by squeezing Manafort?
I'm betting you're probably the guy who is all over the police when they partake in unethical activities such as this.
 
trixare4kids said:
I take it that you aren't bothered by a lack of ethics in our justice system then? It's OK then that Mueller would gun for Trump's prosecution or impeachment by squeezing Manafort?
I'm betting you're probably the guy who is all over the police when they partake in unethical activities such as this.
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You didn't answer my question. Do you feel that all the mob bosses who have ever been put away should be freed?
 
Cardinal said:
You didn't answer my question. Do you feel that all the mob bosses who have ever been put away should be freed?
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I don't have to answer yours. It's clear that you are quite OK with an unethical justice system.
I'm not.
And your strawman is not worthy of comment because you are attempting to compare the POTUS with a mobster. Silly comparison.

I simply worry that Manafort might make up stuff about Trump or Trump's family members to save his own neck. Manafort is a bad dude. He does not deserve leniency for being a snitch.
 
The guy has been exonerated in past courts for the same B.S.:

If they were unanimous for guilty on the other counts then the jury would have compromised to not-guilty on
the one remaining and called it a win....this looks bad for the prosecution. I doubt the jury would get wrapped
around the axle over one charge, and spend four days debating it, if they agreed on the 17 other charges.
 
Ikari said:
They do not necessarily convict those who are guilty, and rich people getting away with it is nothing new to our system. It's, in fact, a systematic problem. I'm not looking to hold rich people responsible for being rich, only for the crimes they commit. I know Swampites like to make excuses for the Corporate Elite, but justice was to be blind and being rich was not to be a "get out of jail free" card.
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Actually, the reason white collar criminals get away with it is that they aren’t charged in the first place.

I would think the conviction rate is fairly high on trials, although it’s mitigated by expensive and talented defense lawyers.

Still...with no defense- I’m betting on him being nailed on All or most of the charges.
 
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