Dealing with touch

[Alyssa T.]

Nah. I've just been tossed around a lot.

You don't need to come with a warning label, because there's nothing wrong with being that way. I can't tell you how many times I've said similar things about myself. I look back on it and wonder how I could be so self-depricating. Over what? Sure, I'm human and flawed and all that, but I'm really a pretty nice and interesting person who's never really done anything terrible to anyone. Why should I come with a warning label?

You need to find new people.

Not everyone in this world detests thing different or striving or passionate. . .

I am someone who doesn't come at change gradually. When I hit this point in my life, the point where I realized I was ok, it slammed into place like hammer. Like the lights suddenly turned on all at once.

When I went to my partner-at-the-time and tried to express what I'd need from the relationship to continue it and for it to be nurturing to me, he told me no, and that I was just being "utopian." So I left.
. . .

Once I had narrowed my focus, it took no time at all to find exactly the sorts of people I wanted to be around, friends and lovers both. I haven't been able to wipe the smile off my face ever since. Utopian my ass.

However, I warn you: In order to meet people who will love you for what you are and share your needs, you will have to walk into it knowing exactly what they are, being honest about it, and being quite vulnerable. If you don't show them, they won't see.

But my experience is that people respond much better to that than you would think. In fact, I can't think of any strongly negative reactions I've ever gotten at all. Narrow down your sites, select carefully, and take a risk. And don't worry about anybody else.

Okay, sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore this wonderful post. I really had to stop procrastinating from my schoolwork and also the whole website started looking really weird. It was hard for me to deal with it. Too hard to explain.

Again, you are so right, and I have tried branching out. You know, I even thought that maybe I lose interest because the guys I was with were just that, guys. I've moved around, tried a lot of different things. In every other aspect of my life I am doing very well, extremely successful, and feel great. Relationships are my only drag. The biggest part of that drag is the touching, and the desire to be touched.

In the OP I mentioned something that Aunt Spiker made a joke out of, and it was pretty funny. I mentioned touch when sleeping next to somebody. Surely didn't clarify that at all, either, because I was too scattered when trying to start this off. Here is my issue with that. If I am sleeping next to someone, and one of us moves and comes into physical contact with the other, I wake up and move away. If anyone wraps their arm over me when I am sleeping, I have to move it off. If they do it again, I'm gone, sleeping on the floor or couch, anywhere else.

The only exception to that was a good friend of mine. She used to snuggle real close to me and wrap her right leg across my midsection, and rest her face and right hand on my shoulder while I laid on my back. It was so sensual, really, and very exciting. I say that all the time, but it was. She was so much fun to sleep with like that, but we never did anything, if you know what I mean. She would always tell me, "Alyssa, you are mine tonight," and then wrap me up like that. That was the only time I could sleep with somebody touching me, and it was only because it was her, my best friend. The only problem was I would hurt so bad after a while, but would never want to move because I loved that touching. She was my best friend, and I wanted her to be happy when she was sleeping.

That is so strange. I forgot all about that until I realized there was a time when I didn't hide from touch while sleeping. I never really thought about it, because I was so focused on thinking of relationships with guys and that kind of touch. That is like being able to touch my cats, and not feel any anxiety or even disgust (rare, but it happens) when being touched by other people.

Sorry, that was a long tangent that wasn't the main point I was hoping to make. I'm tellin' you, bad at relationships, and bad at posting!

By the way, sorry I had to snip up your post. The box wouldn't post my reply, because it said the whole thing was 286 characters too long. Crazy.

 

[Riveroaks]

This has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head for the past week now. I really wanted to find a thread in here that was already on the subject, but didn't see any. Then, last night at this thing, we were discussing boundaries and the subject of touch came up for a while. Okay, sorry, the point is I am wondering how people deal with touch? Not bad touch, not so much sexual touch either, but all the other types of touch.

Do you like touch? Do you tense up or really dislike it? When is it different, like times when you go either way? What can make you suddenly enjoy or dislike it?

Okay, I'll try to think of some examples. I don't want to limit this, or make it too broad that nobody wants to say anything.

-- Massage, by a friend, lover/partner, professional, etc
-- Crowded public area, a bar, club, with friends or anyone really
-- Holding hands, hugging, putting an arm around someone (or having it done to you), sitting next to someone, while sleeping next to someone

Okay, again, the question is not about bad touch, just the good type or the type we see in public a lot or just take for granted. I hope this makes sense.

How do you deal with touch?

I keep my hands to myself and I expect others to do the same.

If I am with a lady on a date, young lady or old lady, I don't mind if she starts touching.

I normally wont start touching her however.

Guess I leave it to the female to start the touching first. Normally they always do.

Works for me.

 

[Riveroaks]

Nah. I've just been tossed around a lot.

You don't need to come with a warning label, because there's nothing wrong with being that way. I can't tell you how many times I've said similar things about myself. I look back on it and wonder how I could be so self-depricating. Over what? Sure, I'm human and flawed and all that, but I'm really a pretty nice and interesting person who's never really done anything terrible to anyone. Why should I come with a warning label?

You need to find new people.

Not everyone in this world detests thing different or striving or passionate. Just find other people who share that. Some people absolutely adore it -- take great pleasure in watching it. Want you to be what you are and give only so much as you give willingly. You're not a lone alien in the world. Perhaps certain places in society just aren't right for you. And why must they be? There's lots of different sorts of places for you to try, and the reason so many different subcultures exist is because people are different and have different needs. One of them -- or several! -- will be right for you.

I am someone who doesn't come at change gradually. When I hit this point in my life, the point where I realized I was ok, it slammed into place like hammer. Like the lights suddenly turned on all at once.

When I went to my partner-at-the-time and tried to express what I'd need from the relationship to continue it and for it to be nurturing to me, he told me no, and that I was just being "utopian." So I left.

I wasn't. He was just trying to discourage me, in the hopes I would stay and accept a relationship that didn't nurture me, and where I couldn't be myself, believing that life didn't have anything else to offer. He was possessive and insecure, yes, but more importantly, he was also wrong. There's nothing utopian about looking for people who share the same needs as you and like you for who you are without being threatened by letting you be that.

Once I had narrowed my focus, it took no time at all to find exactly the sorts of people I wanted to be around, friends and lovers both. I haven't been able to wipe the smile off my face ever since. Utopian my ass.

However, I warn you: In order to meet people who will love you for what you are and share your needs, you will have to walk into it knowing exactly what they are, being honest about it, and being quite vulnerable. If you don't show them, they won't see.

But my experience is that people respond much better to that than you would think. In fact, I can't think of any strongly negative reactions I've ever gotten at all. Narrow down your sites, select carefully, and take a risk. And don't worry about anybody else.

Talking normally precedes touching.

And these are both normally preceded by looking and smiling.

Talking is the best way I know to deal with issues.

Issues are anything that you do not have in common or agree on at the moment.

Looking tends to precede all the above.

It all starts out with looking, then smiling, then talking, then touching, then liking, then loving, then boinking, then kids, then after 20 years and the kids are grown and gone hopefully it was all worth it and still it.

When it leads to yelling and fighting and hitting, then it's love on the rocks. Then it's the end.

 

[Riveroaks]

I can't get into the whole control thing myself. While I am a very dominate personality (social conditioning).. I also don't feel upset of people don't want go 'buckle down' to me.. in other words, I can accept 'no' for an answer. Of course, my immediate family has awesome women in it, who are much more motivated and intelligent than most other people.

Bossy huh !!

Most people avoid bossy people unless they themselves are somehow co-dependent.

 

[Riveroaks]

I'm 55 and go through a month here or there where I'm somewhat idle and get into the dating scene, sort of window shopping as it were, and honestly even at my age men want two things, sex and control for the most part. I don't think it's as much testosterone as it is social conditioning and acceptance that a man is somehow entitled to think about sex every 16 seconds or whateverthe**** that is, and be the one who "wears the pants."

That's funny because I normally want neither.

I prefer someone who can keep up with me whom I don't need to drag or push along.

 

[Riveroaks]

Interesting to think about.

Its all about context. Human beings are very complex social animals. I'm sure I could write pages and pages on the subject of appropriate vs inappropriate touching. I was about to write that if I'm not your friend or acquaintance? Keep your hands to yourself! Until I thought of this scenario in a subway train:

I am in a standing room only car. A man has his back to me, steps back and lands squarely on my foot with his size 13. He turns, begins apologizing profusely and puts his hand on my forearm and gives it a slight squeeze. Rolls his eyes, tilts his head back and says, "OMG, I am SO sorry!" No problem. His touch furthers my visual cue interpretation that he is sincerely mortified.

Some things are complicated to describe, like pornography. The human touch is one of those things. It's difficult to describe inappropriate vs inappropriate touching. But, rest assured, this cookie knows it when I feels it.

Very smart lady.

Extremely high I/Q.

My kind of gal.

He bebbe wanna play chess ?!

 

[MaggieD]

Very smart lady.

Extremely high I/Q.

My kind of gal.

He bebbe wanna play chess ?!

You made my day, baby!

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Okay, sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore this wonderful post. I really had to stop procrastinating from my schoolwork and also the whole website started looking really weird. It was hard for me to deal with it. Too hard to explain.

Again, you are so right, and I have tried branching out. You know, I even thought that maybe I lose interest because the guys I was with were just that, guys. I've moved around, tried a lot of different things. In every other aspect of my life I am doing very well, extremely successful, and feel great. Relationships are my only drag. The biggest part of that drag is the touching, and the desire to be touched.

In the OP I mentioned something that Aunt Spiker made a joke out of, and it was pretty funny. I mentioned touch when sleeping next to somebody. Surely didn't clarify that at all, either, because I was too scattered when trying to start this off. Here is my issue with that. If I am sleeping next to someone, and one of us moves and comes into physical contact with the other, I wake up and move away. If anyone wraps their arm over me when I am sleeping, I have to move it off. If they do it again, I'm gone, sleeping on the floor or couch, anywhere else.

The only exception to that was a good friend of mine. She used to snuggle real close to me and wrap her right leg across my midsection, and rest her face and right hand on my shoulder while I laid on my back. It was so sensual, really, and very exciting. I say that all the time, but it was. She was so much fun to sleep with like that, but we never did anything, if you know what I mean. She would always tell me, "Alyssa, you are mine tonight," and then wrap me up like that. That was the only time I could sleep with somebody touching me, and it was only because it was her, my best friend. The only problem was I would hurt so bad after a while, but would never want to move because I loved that touching. She was my best friend, and I wanted her to be happy when she was sleeping.

That is so strange. I forgot all about that until I realized there was a time when I didn't hide from touch while sleeping. I never really thought about it, because I was so focused on thinking of relationships with guys and that kind of touch. That is like being able to touch my cats, and not feel any anxiety or even disgust (rare, but it happens) when being touched by other people.

Sorry, that was a long tangent that wasn't the main point I was hoping to make. I'm tellin' you, bad at relationships, and bad at posting!

By the way, sorry I had to snip up your post. The box wouldn't post my reply, because it said the whole thing was 286 characters too long. Crazy.

Well, I'd suggest identifying that thing that makes best friends and cats different from men you've dated. Whatever that thing is, there's your answer, more likely than not. Then find men who fit the things that make you feel better about touch.

There will be something. For me it was acceptance, which required us to have similar needs and them to be pretty far off the beaten path.

With the typical guy, after a few months, I would start pulling away from touch. Hard to maintain a physical connection when you haven't developed much of an emotional one. And how do you develop an emotional connection with someone who doesn't understand your needs or take you as you are?

I wasn't bad at relationships. I was just in the wrong ones.

Might be the case for you as well.

 

[Summerwind]

That's funny because I normally want neither. I prefer someone who can keep up with me whom I don't need to drag or push along.

True dat. I find so many are so lazy and just want to sit around, I'm not ready to sit through the rest of my life. Problem is that when people like you and me meet, energy is right but focus is not as you want someone with energy focused on your interests and I want someone with energy focused on my interests... In the end people like us with energy already have our interests and even if one or two overlap, it often isn't enough overlap of interests. So I'm thinking it needs to be a mix of keeping up but also letting go, in that sometimes two people of energy have to separate to attend interests that don't overlap. The idea that you want someone to keep up with you, indicates that selfish/controlling aspect that was aforementioned, iirc.

 

[Alyssa T.]

True dat. I find so many are so lazy and just want to sit around, I'm not ready to sit through the rest of my life. Problem is that when people like you and me meet, energy is right but focus is not as you want someone with energy focused on your interests and I want someone with energy focused on my interests... In the end people like us with energy already have our interests and even if one or two overlap, it often isn't enough overlap of interests. So I'm thinking it needs to be a mix of keeping up but also letting go, in that sometimes two people of energy have to separate to attend interests that don't overlap. The idea that you want someone to keep up with you, indicates that selfish/controlling aspect that was aforementioned, iirc.

Wow, what a great point. It reminds me of those bikers my friend and her husband hang out with all the time. There are many that are in their 50s, and they are pretty set in their ways. They are happy in life, and when they get together to party, they let it all hang out (quite literally, as they have been "exposing" me to their naughty ways). But, when a couple of them want to, they roll out to one house or the other and take care of business. No strings attached, really, or so they tell me. Just friends taking care of a common need, and then going back to their "normal" lives.

It sounds so easy and nice. Not having to be dragged around in somebody else's life. To take care of business at work and life throughout the week, and then literally hit it hard over the weekend. I wonder how that really works, though. I don't know them well enough to be able to tell quite yet, but I imagine people who are strong and confident in where they are in life can make things work just fine.

 

[DDD]

Plus there are cultural differences in regards to touch and proximity. We brotherly hug around here with closer friends, so not sure whether the image in post 5 could generalize.

 

[Frank Apisa]

I do not mind people touching me...and I often touch people while talking with them. I'm a starter on a golf course...and a touch on the arm or shoulder is fairly standard when wishing someone a good round as you send 'em out.

Shaking hands often and with almost everyone is a standard on a golf course...guys almost always remove their hats before the handshake whether with another guy of with a woman if a foursome mate is female.

I am in the Big Apple often...long walks or travelling on the subway. There is no avoiding frequent contacts.

Hugs as greetings are hugely popular out here among family and friends...and a light kiss on the cheek, while not universal, happens frequently.

 

[CLAX1911]

This has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head for the past week now. I really wanted to find a thread in here that was already on the subject, but didn't see any. Then, last night at this thing, we were discussing boundaries and the subject of touch came up for a while. Okay, sorry, the point is I am wondering how people deal with touch? Not bad touch, not so much sexual touch either, but all the other types of touch.

Do you like touch? Do you tense up or really dislike it? When is it different, like times when you go either way? What can make you suddenly enjoy or dislike it?

Okay, I'll try to think of some examples. I don't want to limit this, or make it too broad that nobody wants to say anything.

-- Massage, by a friend, lover/partner, professional, etc
-- Crowded public area, a bar, club, with friends or anyone really
-- Holding hands, hugging, putting an arm around someone (or having it done to you), sitting next to someone, while sleeping next to someone

Okay, again, the question is not about bad touch, just the good type or the type we see in public a lot or just take for granted. I hope this makes sense.

How do you deal with touch?

Me, I tend to not worry about it much. The only thing i am not sure about is massage. I have never had one from someone who wasn't a close friend or a lover.

 

[blackjack50]

Don't touch me unless you I said it is ok. Running into people is one thing though.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Me, I tend to not worry about it much. The only thing i am not sure about is massage. I have never had one from someone who wasn't a close friend or a lover.

I love getting a massage, and it makes me feel so relaxed. The problem is whoever is giving me the massage always tells me to relax, and that I am too tense. It never feels that way, though. Can't remember the last time I let someone give me one now, just because that bothered me.

 

[Amadeus]

 

[Riveroaks]

... The idea that you want someone to keep up with you, indicates that selfish/controlling aspect that was aforementioned, iirc.

Wouldn't the alternative be a caretaking job ???

Who wants a caretaking job ???

 

[Riveroaks]

I do not mind people touching me...and I often touch people while talking with them. I'm a starter on a golf course...and a touch on the arm or shoulder is fairly standard when wishing someone a good round as you send 'em out.

Shaking hands often and with almost everyone is a standard on a golf course...guys almost always remove their hats before the handshake whether with another guy of with a woman if a foursome mate is female.

I am in the Big Apple often...long walks or travelling on the subway. There is no avoiding frequent contacts.

Hugs as greetings are hugely popular out here among family and friends...and a light kiss on the cheek, while not universal, happens frequently.

It is really old fashioned and odd touching people as you talk to them.

People used to do this back in the 1960's a lot and in the 1970's off and on.

It started to die in the 1980's and pretty much became illegal by the 1990's.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Plus there are cultural differences in regards to touch and proximity. We brotherly hug around here with closer friends, so not sure whether the image in post 5 could generalize.

Do you give back rubs or massages to your friends? I think you originally posted they were for partners, right? What about same sex friends? That wouldn't be taboo would it? Is it enjoyable, or just so off limits it isn't enjoyable?

 

[Frank Apisa]

It is really old fashioned and odd touching people as you talk to them.

People used to do this back in the 1960's a lot and in the 1970's off and on.

It started to die in the 1980's and pretty much became illegal by the 1990's.

Oh, god...I'm gonna end up in jail.

 

[Removable Mind]

Oh, god...I'm gonna end up in jail.

Well, according to RO's beliefs about touching, I could most likely be your cellmate. But we do have to have a few "touching" boundaries while in jail. :lol:

 

[Alyssa T.]

Oh, god...I'm gonna end up in jail.

When you touch people on the golf course, do you do it between the elbow and wrist?

Sorry, kinda weird, but I had this old high school teacher who always said that was the only place you could touch somebody without (much) trouble. He would always do that, too, kinda gently grab a bit of forearm between his thumb and forefinger if standing close and talking about things. It was never creepy, because he was such a nice older man, and always excited about things. That little touch was like his way of connecting even more with the person he was spending time with. It never lasted long, just something he would (probably unconsciously) do when starting to talk with somebody else.

I always thought it must be some kind of old fashioned thing that used to be more common. Sorry, I hope that didn't come out wrong.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Well, according to RO's beliefs about touching, I could most likely be your cellmate. But we do have to have a few "touching" boundaries while in jail. :lol:

Whoa, hey now! Don't make me get out the rule book. No bad touching in here!

Just kidding. Not about bad touching, just the rule book thing. Wow, just messed that all up.

 

[Summerwind]

Wouldn't the alternative be a caretaking job ???

Who wants a caretaking job ???

Only if you look at things in black and white. Yes, the opposite would be caretaking, but there's a whole slew of cooperative engagement that can take place between his way or her way.

 

[Riveroaks]

Only if you look at things in black and white. Yes, the opposite would be caretaking, but there's a whole slew of cooperative engagement that can take place between his way or her way.

I am the least manipulative person you will ever meet.

Way too smart to play that game or let it be played.