Dealing with touch

[Winchester]

In public I don't mind greeting touches ie brief hugs, handshakes, pats on the back etc. However any kind of PDA of a romantic nature makes me uncomfortable.

 

[Alyssa T.]

I come from Italian stock so touching itself is no big deal and, frankly, I think it's necessary between humans. The question is more one of appropriateness than anything else.

Greeting a male stranger - handshake
Greeting a male acquaintance - handshake.
Greeting a male friend - handshake but duration might be longer and, depending on circumstances, might also include a pat on the upper arm.
Greeting a male relative - handshake and might include a hug

Greeting a female stranger - handshake
Greeting a female acquaintance - personal acquaintance may also get a hug and/or kiss on the cheek if she indicates it's appropriate. Professional acquaintance gets a handshake
Greeting a female friend - handshake and hug/kiss on cheek
Greeting a female relative - hug and kiss on cheek
Greeting a female partner - hug and kiss on lips. May include a cheek caress (upper cheek in public possibly both pair in private)

Sitting next to someone on public transport - leave space if possible. If not then so be it.

The cases for putting an arm around someone are totally situational and often involve alcohol

Touching while dancing - yes. Level of touch depends on level of familiarity

My comfort with other people touching me in any circumstance is generally dependent on whether it appears to be a cultural thing with them or not. I expect more touching from people who are from the Mediterranean area and very little touching from northern Europeans and Asians.

Holding hands in public - only with partner or children

Massage - only with partner

Wow, thanks for typing all that with the guidelines. It made me think of kissing during a greeting or goodbye. I don't like that, at all. But, I got my motorcycle license and my friend knows a bunch of bikers. They are fun to party with, and I don't feel unsafe around them, it's kinda like a big family. But, especially the older guys and gals, always hug and give a quick peck on the lips. Not the cheek, the lips. I can't. They always act hurt or disrespected, and that hurts me because I don't want to treat them badly when they are so nice to me. I let them kiss me on the cheek. It is a big joke when I go to their parties, which isn't very often, but they do give me a lot of trouble about it.

It is definitely a cultural thing, even broken down by the sub-cultures.

 

[Alyssa T.]

What? Don't apologize! Very insightful!

Yeah, another thing the lady always tells me is to stop apologizing all the time. She told me that again last night. At least now I have stopped saying "I'm sorry" after she tells me to stop saying "sorry."

 

[Alyssa T.]

In public I don't mind greeting touches ie brief hugs, handshakes, pats on the back etc. However any kind of PDA of a romantic nature makes me uncomfortable.

This is where I am weird, if it can only be restricted to one area. I am the same with PDAs, no way. I can't do it. I don't even like a long hug in public. But, like in the line at the grocery store the other day, I like seeing it. Not like a sex act or way too steamy groping stuff, but a hug, kiss or gentle touching, I am okay with that ---- again, only if it is other people doing it and not me. Nope. Sometimes I think I can feel it. Like in the grocery store, this old couple was waiting to pay for their stuff, and the guy was scratching the back of the lady in a tender, loving way. It was so neat. I could imagine having my back lovingly scratched like that, but if anyone ever did that in public I would push them away.

 

[Lutherf]

That brings up a good point with boys. I have heard a lot of them say things like "not gay, but" or something like that. But, then watching guys play sports and they are always touching each other on the butt or hugging and grabbing. It is kinda weird, and I don't know why some would feel uneasy about it at times, then go slap a guy's butt the next minute. It must have to do with expectations or, I don't know. I'm just making things up now. Sorry.

OK. Touching between males involved in a sporting competition is a whole different thing and a smack on the ass, while pretty unusual, is generally a method of getting the recipient out of his own head and into the game. The dog pile after a win is just pure celebration. There's actually a movie scene that covers this dynamic really well. It's one of the last scenes in Major League where they win the playoff and Corbin Bernson hugs Charlie Sheen, socks him in the face for sleeping with his wife then hugs him again for the win.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

This has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head for the past week now. I really wanted to find a thread in here that was already on the subject, but didn't see any. Then, last night at this thing, we were discussing boundaries and the subject of touch came up for a while. Okay, sorry, the point is I am wondering how people deal with touch? Not bad touch, not so much sexual touch either, but all the other types of touch.

Do you like touch? Do you tense up or really dislike it? When is it different, like times when you go either way? What can make you suddenly enjoy or dislike it?

Okay, I'll try to think of some examples. I don't want to limit this, or make it too broad that nobody wants to say anything.

-- Massage, by a friend, lover/partner, professional, etc
-- Crowded public area, a bar, club, with friends or anyone really
-- Holding hands, hugging, putting an arm around someone (or having it done to you), sitting next to someone, while sleeping next to someone

Okay, again, the question is not about bad touch, just the good type or the type we see in public a lot or just take for granted. I hope this makes sense.

How do you deal with touch?

My bubble shrinks and expands rapidly depending almost entirely on vibe.

There are some people I am so repelled by from the moment I meet them that my feet want to move back if they take a step towards me.

There are others I am automatically pulled to from the moment I meet them that I have to remind myself to maintain a certain distance if I sense they want it.

Generally, my bubble is slightly bigger with women. I do know why that is, and it's something I'm working on and getting better at.

With people I like and trust, I'm very touchy for the most part (certain things could alter this, like if I've known them a long time from back when I was less touchy, and that's the routine we had established -- that stuff's hard to alter).

I am less and less bothered by touching people in public. This is something I think living in a city will change about you.

I live in a city of 9 million people. Quite frankly, there are just too many human beings in too small a space for us to have private time whenever we want it.

I see people on the street clearly in the middle of a break-up. I see people clearly on a first date. I see people cuddling. I see people yelling. I see people who've clearly had a very bad, or very good night. I see people living important moments of their life, because there just isn't anywhere to hide sometimes. Even the walls are thinner here.

It exposes you to human beings as, well, human beings. No matter how upper class you are, it's virtually impossible to "keep up appearances" all of the time. And it helps you understand people, as well as eventually making you less self-conscious about being human yourself. Everyone else has come to the same realization, and they don't really care. Your "privacy" is the assurance that other people won't bother you, or stop and stare. They'll let you have your moment and just keep doing whatever it is they're doing.

So I've found myself more likely to be affectionate in public myself. I was never super anti-PDA or anything, but I felt more self-conscious living in a place where people really would stop and stare at you, or worse, invite themselves into your situation, for even the most minor, insignificant deviation from standard public behavior.

 

[betuadollar]

Males should probably not respond to this one right? I mean, is the male opinion here even valid?

But...

Being somewhat introverted - "shy" - I tend to be attracted to more assertive women. They're usually the ones who lean in and touch to ensure they get your attention. Even if it's just a touch on the forearm, I like that; it gets my attention. I think it makes for warmer, more relaxed, more personal response. Because the impression is that we are now relating on a more intimate level. These women also tend to be bubblier, happier, of slightly higher intellect and more independent. While not necessarily indicative of a perfect match, they generally tend get along well with males.

In social settings I tend to be more reserved, but within a relationship, I can be a little touchy-feeiy. In fact I think touching is very important in a relationship. And that would include both the good and the bad. I can be overly bold respecting the bad, but only to the extent my partner is receptive.

I'm not big on touching males; I stick mostly to handshakes.

Massages? I prefer the little Korean types.

The most interesting thing I encountered was a married French/ Native American Canadian who would always insist on presenting her neck in greeting. She preferred a kiss on the nape of her neck rather than a peck on the cheek, which I thought was interesting. And kinda cool. Her and I had a lot of fun. And for you overly religious types, you're absolutely right - I'm going straight to hell.

 

[Alyssa T.]

My bubble shrinks and expands rapidly depending almost entirely on vibe.

There are some people I am so repelled by from the moment I meet them that my feet want to move back if they take a step towards me.

There are others I am automatically pulled to from the moment I meet them that I have to remind myself to maintain a certain distance if I sense they want it.

Generally, my bubble is slightly bigger with women. I do know why that is, and it's something I'm working on and getting better at.

With people I like and trust, I'm very touchy for the most part (certain things could alter this, like if I've known them a long time from back when I was less touchy, and that's the routine we had established -- that stuff's hard to alter).

I am less and less bothered by touching people in public. This is something I think living in a city will change about you.

I live in a city of 9 million people. Quite frankly, there are just too many human beings in too small a space for us to have private time whenever we want it.

I see people on the street clearly in the middle of a break-up. I see people clearly on a first date. I see people cuddling. I see people yelling. I see people who've clearly had a very bad, or very good night. I see people living important moments of their life, because there just isn't anywhere to hide sometimes. Even the walls are thinner here.

It exposes you to human beings as, well, human beings. No matter how upper class you are, it's virtually impossible to "keep up appearances" all of the time. And it helps you understand people, as well as eventually making you less self-conscious about being human yourself. Everyone else has come to the same realization, and they don't really care. Your "privacy" is the assurance that other people won't bother you, or stop and stare. They'll let you have your moment and just keep doing whatever it is they're doing.

So I've found myself more likely to be affectionate in public myself. I was never super anti-PDA or anything, but I felt more self-conscious living in a place where people really would stop and stare at you, or worse, invite themselves into your situation, for even the most minor, insignificant deviation from standard public behavior.

That was a great reply, thank you. Living in a city does make me more desensitized to things that would have seemed unreal where I grew up. Great point. Same with those who automatically repulse me, I don't want to touch them at all and sometimes I have been terribly rude. I feel bad about it, but something inside me doesn't want anything to do with them. I've tried working on that, but it depends on a lot of variables in each situation. I have gotten myself into trouble with the opposite feelings or urges, though. That was something I stopped just to stay out of trouble.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Males should probably not respond to this one right? I mean, is the male opinion here even valid?

But...

Being somewhat introverted - "shy" - I tend to be attracted to more assertive women. They're usually the ones who lean in and touch to ensure they get your attention. Even if it's just a touch on the forearm, I like that; it gets my attention. I think it makes for warmer, more relaxed, more personal response. Because the impression is that we are now relating on a more intimate level. These women also tend to be bubblier, happier, of slightly higher intellect and more independent. While not necessarily indicative of a perfect match, they generally tend get along well with males.

In social settings I tend to be more reserved but within a relationship, I can be a little touchy-feeiy. In fact I think touching is very important in a relationship. And that would include both the good and the bad. I can be overly bold respecting the bad, but only to the extent my partner is receptive.

I not big on touching males; I stick mostly to handshakes.

Massages? I prefer the little Korean types.

The most interesting thing I encountered was a married French/ Native American Canadian who would always insist on presenting her neck in greeting. She preferred a kiss on the nape of her neck rather than the cheek, which I thought was interesting. And kinda cool.

Yes, of course your opinion is welcome and valid. Thank you for sharing it. That kiss on the neck sounds very exciting. Touch does seem to be very important in relationships.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

That was a great reply, thank you. Living in a city does make me more desensitized to things that would have seemed unreal where I grew up. Great point. Same with those who automatically repulse me, I don't want to touch them at all and sometimes I have been terribly rude. I feel bad about it, but something inside me doesn't want anything to do with them. I've tried working on that, but it depends on a lot of variables in each situation. I have gotten myself into trouble with the opposite feelings or urges, though. That was something I stopped just to stay out of trouble.

I wouldn't say it's desentitizing. In a way, for me, it makes me even more sensitive (as if I needed that!). You see everyone's humanity, not just their superficial personality.

My experience tells me that you should listen to those automatic feelings. Maybe learn how to control how outwardly you express them, for the sake of keeping the social peace, but do listen to them.

Some people don't get that feeling. We all have different stuff we're good at, and people-reading is just like any other skill or talent. If you've got it, listen to it.

Over the years, I have gone with my brain over my intuition many times, simply because my intuition wasn't giving me a concrete train of logic for why it felt as it did, so I simply assumed it was wrong.

That has always been a mistake. Every time.

I listen to my intuition on people now, no matter how silly it seems to be.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

I wouldn't say it's desentitizing. In a way, for me, it makes me even more sensitive (as if I needed that!). You see everyone's humanity, not just their superficial personality.

My experience tells me that you should listen to those automatic feelings. Maybe learn how to control how outwardly you express them, for the sake of keeping the social peace, but do listen to them.

Some people don't get that feeling. We all have different stuff we're good at, and people-reading is just like any other skill or talent. If you've got it, listen to it.

Over the years, I have gone with my brain over my intuition many times, simply because my intuition wasn't giving my a concrete train of logic for why it felt as it did, so I simply assumed it was wrong.

That has always been a mistake. Every time.

I listen to my intuition on people now, no matter how silly it seems to be.

I have the worst intuition, but I also have enough luck that I've never needed to use it, so it works out in the end.

 

[Alyssa T.]

I wouldn't say it's desentitizing. In a way, for me, it makes me even more sensitive (as if I needed that!). You see everyone's humanity, not just their superficial personality.

My experience tells me that you should listen to those automatic feelings. Maybe learn how to control how outwardly you express them, for the sake of keeping the social peace, but do listen to them.

Some people don't get that feeling. We all have different stuff we're good at, and people-reading is just like any other skill or talent. If you've got it, listen to it.

Over the years, I have gone with my brain over my intuition many times, simply because my intuition wasn't giving my a concrete train of logic for why it felt as it did, so I simply assumed it was wrong.

That has always been a mistake. Every time.

I listen to my intuition on people now, no matter how silly it seems to be.

I really like how you look at living in the city, making you more sensitive to humanity. That is wonderful. It's true, too. I was taking it a different way, but it is true. Great point. Same with everything else you said. All very, very true. I work hard at being a better person, and better at understanding other people. Dealing with people isn't always easy, but it's better than it was. Sometimes it is so hard, because I feel so hot on the inside, but be so cold on the outside. Somewhere in between, it is 75 degrees and sunny, and that is the point I try to find and stay in.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I really like how you look at living in the city, making you more sensitive to humanity. That is wonderful. It's true, too. I was taking it a different way, but it is true. Great point. Same with everything else you said. All very, very true. I work hard at being a better person, and better at understanding other people. Dealing with people isn't always easy, but it's better than it was. Sometimes it is so hard, because I feel so hot on the inside, but be so cold on the outside. Somewhere in between, it is 75 degrees and sunny, and that is the point I try to find and stay in.

The best advice I can give you is to be ok with yourself, and find people and places that are ok with you too. Being really firm in that helps sort of regulate things quite a bit.

 

[RAMOSS]

This has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head for the past week now. I really wanted to find a thread in here that was already on the subject, but didn't see any. Then, last night at this thing, we were discussing boundaries and the subject of touch came up for a while. Okay, sorry, the point is I am wondering how people deal with touch? Not bad touch, not so much sexual touch either, but all the other types of touch.

Do you like touch? Do you tense up or really dislike it? When is it different, like times when you go either way? What can make you suddenly enjoy or dislike it?

Okay, I'll try to think of some examples. I don't want to limit this, or make it too broad that nobody wants to say anything.

-- Massage, by a friend, lover/partner, professional, etc
-- Crowded public area, a bar, club, with friends or anyone really
-- Holding hands, hugging, putting an arm around someone (or having it done to you), sitting next to someone, while sleeping next to someone

Okay, again, the question is not about bad touch, just the good type or the type we see in public a lot or just take for granted. I hope this makes sense.

How do you deal with touch?

Depending on situation, I have no problem with it... I don't like crowds though,.. it's not touching, it's the crowds. I have a limitation of the time I can spend in crowds, and it seems to be the same amount of time no matter what situation.

When I went to my nieces high school graduation, it was a very small class , and they all did a little speech, and then got hugged at the end. There was one guy who obviously did NOT want contact, because he made sure he didn't get hugged, but he bowed to the folks instead.

 

[Alyssa T.]

The best advice I can give you is to be ok with yourself, and find people and places that are ok with you too. Being really firm in that helps sort of regulate things quite a bit.

Sorry, but I have to get personal for a quick second. It's good though, not bad. I just wanted to tell you how much I admire your posts here. You always sound so intelligent, strong and confident. It is great. I love it. Thank you!

Okay, back on topic. It is very important, for me, to be okay with myself. I've had to struggle with that a bit, but I am pretty strong in it now. It has helped a lot in dealing with other people, though I still find myself getting in the way of myself at times. Always a struggle, but that is okay too. I'd rather be too careful when it comes to things like touching and being touched, than to be too --- not sure how to say it. The problem really comes with lots of intimacy, and maintaining interest in touch within a relationship.

It's a beautiful world, confusing at times, but still beautiful.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Depending on situation, I have no problem with it... I don't like crowds though,.. it's not touching, it's the crowds. I have a limitation of the time I can spend in crowds, and it seems to be the same amount of time no matter what situation.

When I went to my nieces high school graduation, it was a very small class , and they all did a little speech, and then got hugged at the end. There was one guy who obviously did NOT want contact, because he made sure he didn't get hugged, but he bowed to the folks instead.

Yeah, crowds can suck! I don't like it either many times. I am not very big, so I feel like I am suffocating in some crowds, especially if it is also real noisy or the other sense are being messed with. No good.

Sometimes, when I go out with my friend and her husband that love the biker scene, I try to avoid "paying the piper" or whatever some of the old bikers say when they want to hug and kiss me. I try to pretend I am sick or something, but they usually don't care. It's funny to them, kinda gross for me, but they are all pretty nice about it. That is what I thought of when you described the boy who would bow rather than hug the other graduates. There can be ways around that uncomfortable touch many times. Good for him!

 

[Summerwind]

I can't stand being touched or even being that close to people. I've chosen a life of celibacy because I couldn't come to terms with it. But I'm kind of anomalous compared to your average guy.

Hmm, that's kind of where I'm at for that past couple of decades now. Used to be all huggy and whatnot, not any more. Keep your distance please... don't want to be touched much, surely not interested in sex with anyone else anymore, more than capable of giving myself as many orgasms as the day requires without all the personal hassles of partnering with another, ... unlike you, I am open to meeting someone who may change my mind about my "celibacy," but I am realistic in that the requirements to be that person are not likely to be found so probably I'm celibate and single and somewhat hermit-like til death does part me.

 

[Alyssa T.]

Hmm, that's kind of where I'm at for that past couple of decades now. Used to be all huggy and whatnot, not any more. Keep your distance please... don't want to be touched much, surely not interested in sex with anyone else anymore, more than capable of giving myself as many orgasms as the day requires without all the personal hassles of partnering with another, ... unlike you, I am open to meeting someone who may change my mind about my "celibacy," but I am realistic in that the requirements to be that person are not likely to be found so probably I'm celibate and single and somewhat hermit-like til death does part me.

I figure that is probably how I am going to end up. Sometimes it makes me sad, but other times it makes me happy. I am so glad to see there are other people who are confident and okay with that. It helps. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Amadeus]

Hmm, that's kind of where I'm at for that past couple of decades now. Used to be all huggy and whatnot, not any more. Keep your distance please... don't want to be touched much, surely not interested in sex with anyone else anymore, more than capable of giving myself as many orgasms as the day requires without all the personal hassles of partnering with another, ... unlike you, I am open to meeting someone who may change my mind about my "celibacy," but I am realistic in that the requirements to be that person are not likely to be found so probably I'm celibate and single and somewhat hermit-like til death does part me.

I'm open, but I realize that I need to work on myself for many more years before I can connect with someone on that level. It's not fair to burden someone with my baggage. Maybe when I'm 60 or 70 I'll settle down and find a partner. Until then, I need to learn to be happy with myself. For the most part, I am.

 

[Summerwind]

I figure that is probably how I am going to end up. Sometimes it makes me sad, but other times it makes me happy. I am so glad to see there are other people who are confident and okay with that. It helps. Thanks for sharing that.

You've got to do and be what's right for you at the time, and it may change and it may then revert back, don't ever lack confidence as to who you are, have been, or even will be. It's all perfectly fine so long as you're not injuring or affecting others. That's how I look at it anyways, and being isolated in the manner I am surely is even less likely to be injurious or in anyway affecting anyone else than trying to force myself to be like some saccharine-y sweet illusion.

 

[Gathomas88]

This has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head for the past week now. I really wanted to find a thread in here that was already on the subject, but didn't see any. Then, last night at this thing, we were discussing boundaries and the subject of touch came up for a while. Okay, sorry, the point is I am wondering how people deal with touch? Not bad touch, not so much sexual touch either, but all the other types of touch.

Do you like touch? Do you tense up or really dislike it? When is it different, like times when you go either way? What can make you suddenly enjoy or dislike it?

Okay, I'll try to think of some examples. I don't want to limit this, or make it too broad that nobody wants to say anything.

-- Massage, by a friend, lover/partner, professional, etc
-- Crowded public area, a bar, club, with friends or anyone really
-- Holding hands, hugging, putting an arm around someone (or having it done to you), sitting next to someone, while sleeping next to someone

Okay, again, the question is not about bad touch, just the good type or the type we see in public a lot or just take for granted. I hope this makes sense.

How do you deal with touch?

My family's pretty big on hugging, and pretty much always has been (my parents aren't even really all that into kissing, truth be told). I frequently hug my mother, my sisters, and my younger brother (he's around 12). I have liked to hug and cuddle significant others as well when I've had them. I don't see a problem in the world with it. I like hugs, and have been told I give pretty good ones.

Hugs for my father and my adult brother tend to be reserved for more special occasions. If I'm going to hug a male friend, he's basically got to be going to away for an extended period of time.

I will occasionally rough house with my male friends as well, but that generally only happens after we've had a bit to drink, and I know them well enough to know they'll be cool with it. :lol:

 

[Summerwind]

I'm open, but I realize that I need to work on myself for many more years before I can connect with someone on that level. It's not fair to burden someone with my baggage. Maybe when I'm 60 or 70 I'll settle down and find a partner. Until then, I need to learn to be happy with myself. For the most part, I am.

Huh, mine's is the opposite. I've been isolated ever since I realized who I am, decided I actually like myself just as I am, however also realizing that my personality in a female's body is just not an acceptable thing to most, so I stay to myself. I got very tired of people suggesting that I should take some sort of meds (everybody has their own idea as to what I "suffer" from, but they all think meds for bipolar and or ADHD would make for an improvement).... anyway, I got tired of people thinking I should be medicated so THEY could tolerate me better. I figure if they are the one's having difficulties with my honest, straightforward, don't pull any punches attitudes, then they need to medicate themselves, not me. I like who I am and I avoid others because they don't. Screw 'em.

 

[Alyssa T.]

You've got to do and be what's right for you at the time, and it may change and it may then revert back, don't ever lack confidence as to who you are, have been, or even will be. It's all perfectly fine so long as you're not injuring or affecting others. That's how I look at it anyways, and being isolated in the manner I am surely is even less likely to be injurious or in anyway affecting anyone else than trying to force myself to be like some saccharine-y sweet illusion.

I agree. It is hard, though, with all these tough expectations being dumped on me. So many people in my family and friends talking about finding "the one" and that the "clock is ticking" and to not waste these years, on and on. Then, when I do get into relationships, they seem to break down along these lines. One guy told me I was broken because I didn't want to touch or be touched all the time. Broken? Whatever. I felt like he was more interested in a conjoined twin rather than a partner.

 

[Summerwind]

I agree. It is hard, though, with all these tough expectations being dumped on me. So many people in my family and friends talking about finding "the one" and that the "clock is ticking" and to not waste these years, on and on. Then, when I do get into relationships, they seem to break down along these lines. One guy told me I was broken because I didn't want to touch or be touched all the time. Broken? Whatever. I felt like he was more interested in a conjoined twin rather than a partner.

Guess what! You are not them, the value they place on a committed relationship is clearly not the same as the lack of value you put on it. If it were me, (perhaps given the post above about how I'm not preferred as I am, I shouldn't give advice, but here goes anyway) I'd simply be sure I responded to them in the same way I would respond internally.... "I get that these things are important to you, but they are not to me. So STFU about it."

BTW, you mention it makes you sad sometimes... recognize that sadness is likely being put upon you by others and not by you or you'd be doing something to change it. Don't let others rule your emotions.

 

[RAMOSS]

I figure that is probably how I am going to end up. Sometimes it makes me sad, but other times it makes me happy. I am so glad to see there are other people who are confident and okay with that. It helps. Thanks for sharing that.

If that is the way things go, that is the way things go. I don't think people have to bow to societies expectations about 'you must marry, and have 2.1 kids'