Would You Ever Vote AOC For President?

[Surrealistik]

Bernie steals from the Democrats for his own advantage. Now I like Bernie personally (not his ideas) but, there is a reason why he ran in 2016 on the Democratic ticket instead of trying an Independent run. You can bet your bottom dollar that if he had won the Democratic nomination he would have eagerly accepted every dime from the DNC and Superpacs and the Hollywood elites to get him elected. Why do you think he was so upset and sued the DNC for cutting his access to voter data files? Because he wanted to use the millions of dollars spent by and donated to the DNC to gather this information for his own campaign.

There's two reasons he ran on a Dem ticket rather than an independent one, and they're no secrets:

#1: He didn't want to split the left vote.

#2: US democracy is in practice a rigid, two party system.

There is no thievery in his choice to run as a Dem; in fact, the Dems would certainly prefer it per #1.

Second, no, I'm absolutely confident he would not have accepted Superpac money from industries and special interests; at worst he'd accept bundled money where the specific sources couldn't be determined, and thus there is no one to be specifically beholden to.

Third, RE: the DNC files, he obviously wanted access to information that was crucial and normally accessible to every primary participant. Having said that, by utilizing this information there is no one he is specifically and directly beholden to, which is a key distinction.

Let me ask you this question since you claim to be a virgin and wish to remain a virgin. Let's say that Bernie wins the 2020 Democratic nomination and, as luck would have it, he runs against Trump. Let's say that Trump accepts any and all legal contributions, as big and as large as possible and puts millions of his own money into the kitty. The Koch brothers, Wall Street, and right wing superpacs spend billions to get Trump re-elected because the thought of socialist Bernie scares the bejesus out of them. Would you still want Bernie to remain a virgin, or, would you want him to lose his virginity and fight fire with fire, because the end justifies the means. Is losing your virginity better than having Trump win a second term?

No matter how hard you try, politics corrupts. Now I totally agree with you about money in politics but, the reality is it is here to stay. Lobbyists aren't going anywhere. Citizen's united isn't going anywhere, even if Bernie were to win.

I don't think Bernie's election were it to happen, means an automatic end to money in politics by any means, but it is definitely a move in that direction with a powerful, well-situated ally in a strong position to help make the necessary reforms.

Second, it depends on what kind of funding divide we're talking about here. That having been said, Trump was outspent approximately 2 : 1 and still beat Hillary; I think Bernie can easily do the same to Trump.

 

[Moderate Right]

It's not really the greatest country on earth per a number of very relevant metrics ranging from economic freedom (and freedom in general), to standard of living, healthcare, education (except at the highest echelons of post-secondary), quality of life, democratic integrity, freedom of the press, life expectancy, and so on.

GDP alone does not the greatest nation make sadly.

That is the liberal socialist point of view. The US has the largest economy on Earth and we got that way for a reason. Just look at our economic output and GDP and don't give me any percapita BS. Liberals think that if we lived under Mommy's and Daddy's roof forever that we would have the greatest quality of life in the world. Daddy could support us and Mommy could make us chicken noodle soup every time we got sick and everyone would love us. No thanks.

 

[Surrealistik]

That is the liberal socialist point of view. The US has the largest economy on Earth and we got that way for a reason. Just look at our economic output and GDP and don't give me any percapita BS. Liberals think that if we lived under Mommy's and Daddy's roof forever that we would have the greatest quality of life in the world. Daddy could support us and Mommy could make us chicken noodle soup every time we got sick. No thanks.

Nice absurd strawman; try forwarding an argument of substance next time.

These are all factual and relevant metrics per which the US lags significantly behind many other developed countries, and anyone who sensibly judges a nation on more than their military and GDP cannot help but conclude that the US is in fact not the greatest nation on the planet.

 

[Moderate Right]

There's two reasons he ran on a Dem ticket rather than an independent one, and they're no secrets:

#1: He didn't want to split the left vote.

#2: US democracy is in practice a rigid, two party system.

There is no thievery in his choice to run as a Dem; in fact, the Dems would certainly prefer it per #1.

Second, no, I'm absolutely confident he would not have accepted Superpac money from industries and special interests; at worst he'd accept bundled money where the specific sources couldn't be determined, and thus there is no one to be specifically beholden to.

Third, RE: the DNC files, he obviously wanted access to information that was crucial and normally accessible to every primary participant. Having said that, by utilizing this information there is no one he is specifically and directly beholden to, which is a key distinction.




I don't think Bernie's election were it to happen, means an automatic end to money in politics by any means, but it is definitely a move in that direction with a powerful, well-situated ally in a strong position to help make the necessary reforms.

Second, it depends on what kind of funding divide we're talking about here. That having been said, Trump was outspent approximately 2 : 1 and still beat Hillary; I think Bernie can easily do the same to Trump.

Can you at least admit that you live in fantasy land? First, Bernie would use that voter data from the DNC, even though donations from Wall Street and lobbyists help fund the DNC. He knows that. You know that. Second, if Bernie were to win, don't you see that nothing would be gained? Nothing. If Bernie had won in 2016 how far do you think he would have gotten with a Republican House and Senate? Even now he would be facing a Republican Senate. Would you favor him using EO's like both Trump and Obama and others have done, to circumvent the will of the people? Look at the level of the resistance your side has used against Trump to slow down his agenda. Don't you understand (even after Obama) that the right would have resistance against Bernie? Don't you understand that if Bernie were elected the right resistance would be just as effective as the left resistance has been against Trump? Look at the results of the poll in this thread. Even your own side is voting against virgins such as AOC because even though being a virgin is a virtue, it doesn't supercede electing loonatics into politics. A loonatic is still a loonatic. Upgrade or rebuild every building in the US? Really? While a great fantasy, this idea should put a person in a rubber room where they can't hurt themselves.

 

[lurchadams]

Well, if you check the results of the poll, the right aren't the only ones who wouldn't ever want her president. In fact, even if you add together both the "yeses" and the "others", "no" still wins out. There are plenty on the left who think she's an idiot. Michael Bloomberg is the latest to say how stupid it was to chase Amazon out of New York. The right aren't scared of AOC, they actually like her because they can use her to show what extremists many on the left have become.

She just got elected. She's done nothing. Yet you see her as a threat because she challenges your misguided world view. Plain as day to see the fear motivating you, my terrified friend. I'm sorry, I wish I could help you.

 

[Surrealistik]

Can you at least admit that you live in fantasy land? First, Bernie would use that voter data from the DNC, even though donations from Wall Street and lobbyists help fund the DNC. He knows that. You know that. Second, if Bernie were to win, don't you see that nothing would be gained? Nothing. If Bernie had won in 2016 how far do you think he would have gotten with a Republican House and Senate? Even now he would be facing a Republican Senate. Would you favor him using EO's like both Trump and Obama and others have done, to circumvent the will of the people? Look at the level of the resistance your side has used against Trump to slow down his agenda. Don't you understand (even after Obama) that the right would have resistance against Bernie? Don't you understand that if Bernie were elected the right resistance would be just as effective as the left resistance has been against Trump? Look at the results of the poll in this thread. Even your own side is voting against virgins such as AOC because even though being a virgin is a virtue, it doesn't supercede electing loonatics into politics. A loonatic is still a loonatic. Upgrade or rebuild every building in the US? Really? While a great fantasy, this idea should put a person in a rubber room where they can't hurt themselves.

I'm not sure what a loonatic is, but aspirational policy which obviously will see mutation in the legislative process doesn't amount to lunacy. In the event you're unfamiliar with 101 negotiating tactics, one of the most fundamental premises is you always lead high and go from there. The likes of Pelosi oppose AOC because her donors aren't interested in any of her policies, no matter how popular (with the preponderance of those policies featuring majority to supermajority support among the population).

Again, 'moderates' are probably closer to the traditional definition of madness: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results (which I suppose they do get in fairness; they just happen to be successively worse).


Second, there is absolutely a relevant distinction between resources that are available through indirect contributions (such as the DNC voter data), and direct contributions to which the money is clearly and plainly attributable (direct donations from Wall Street or its SuperPACs); the danger of ingratiation is clearly vastly more prominent in the case of the latter. This should be obvious.


Third, yes, I think Bernie as president would make a substantial difference between the bully pulpit, veto power, EOs and the Dem seizure of the House, nevermind his ability to galvanize voters from that position; this too should be plainly obvious.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Hmm, a Blue Dog Democrat that's likely even more to the right than Pelosi is; I think I'll pass.

Also regarding a lot of your other posts here thus far, hyperbole and pejoratives predicated on essentially nothing aren't arguments.

Yeah, do pass and stick with your AOC. You'll see where this will take you.

What's wrong with you guys? I did spell out my arguments. Saying that they aren't arguments won't make it so. You are in denial that my arguments are, well, arguments. If you can't refute them, fine, but don't pretend I didn't mention them.

 

[FieldTheorist]

There wre many more Democrats than just Pelosi.

Yes, I am aware. The Dems are split up into two different groups, and the moderates hate AOC. It's not at all shocking.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Yes, I am aware. The Dems are split up into two different groups, and the moderates hate AOC. It's not at all shocking.

And AOC voted for Pelosi, LOL.
Why haven't you addressed this, yet?

 

[ataraxia]

Yes, she is of age (in this hypothetical). This is a generic question. No opponents are named. This is just a question of would you ever vote her president or not.

Probably not. A little too extreme. It’s OK in congress right now to balance out some of the Freedom Caucus nuts. But not as the chief executive.

 

[ataraxia]

The US is the greatest country on Earth with the largest economy. We got there because of who we are and how we got there. I find it completely amazing that you lefties attack Trump for his campaign theme of Make America Great Again because you believe America was already great except for this, that, the other thing, and a million other additional things. There's a reason why the superpowers of yesteryear, Great Britain, France, Spain, Itally, and Portugal are but a speck compared to how the US grew in comparison.

Actually, the EU as a whole has a bigger economy than the US.

 

[FieldTheorist]

By the way, if you want a Pelosi opponent (who didn't vote for her as speaker), instead of supporting the idiotic, dumb, inappropriate, shoot-the-party-in-the-foot moron known as AOC, support Mikie Sherril. She is a hundred times better, smarter, and with more potential for a substantial career than AOC (who will likely just fade, when people notice how shallow and naive she is). Mikie is a very impressive young politician, as shown by how she beat the odds in New Jersey's 11th district (she flipped it, unlike AOC who just benefited from a safe district). This Navy veteran is a tough and intelligent woman, with degrees from the Navy Academy, the London School of Economics, and Georgetown Law.

I admire her a lot more than your moronic idol.

Oh, and look how funny (showing how misinformed you are) - did you know that your idol AOC, unlike Mikie Sherrill, DID vote for Pelosi for speaker? LOL

GOP lawmakers groan as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez votes for Nancy Pelosi to be speaker

Please explain to me what you like Mikie Sherrill. What bills has she brought to congress that you approve of, what policy proposals doe she have that you like, and why do you think she's a leader?

Pelosi is about 1,000 times smarter, politically savvier, and more experienced than your dumb idol AOC. Don't even try to compare them. Your chick is a microbe compared to Pelosi. She is about as worthy as a flea in Pelosi's dog.

That which has be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

No, I've already made my argument, but with either your bias, or your reading comprehension issues, you can't grasp it.
Sure, older white Americans voted for Trump.
But it was within the reach of the Millennials to stop Trump. They came to vote in force for Obama. A significant chunk of them sat out this election, due to BERNIE BERNIE THE GOD GOT CHEATED ON!! (Which by the way is a very simplistic view; he simply didn't have enough primary votes).

Like I said MULTIPLE times (but you are too simple to understand), several groups were responsible for Trump's win. I quoted them.

But among them, the Millennials who sat out were ALSO responsible.

And like I said MULTIPLE times (but maybe you aren't intelligent enough to grasp), the election was decided by 80,000 votes in 3 states, so, had those DUMB Millennials adopted the lesser evil, Trump wouldn't be president, therefore, they are ALSO responsible for the current state of affairs. I blame the other groups too. I'm not fond of any of them, who contributed to this disaster - but the Millennials definitely did contribute too.

Thanks for playing. That's all that you Millennials do. You play videogames... you think you are all grown up and smart. Unfortunately for the rest of us, no, you aren't.

This is an incoherent non-argument. You're literally just arguing that you're right because you're right because you're right. Anyone with even a poor understanding of debate knows why this is unpersuasive nonsense. It's one thing if you're a moderate and you have core ideological differences, it's another thing entirely to assert that your opponent is wrong because they belong to a class of people you think are dumb, and thus you can summarily disregard anything they say or think.

Like you don't need to look very deep for how fallacious, unpersuasive, and dishonest this line of argumentation is.


This is my last post to you on this thread, there's clearly no ground to be made here. You simply view your opponents are brain dead idiots and you think ad hominem attacks are valid lines of reasoning. Not much to see here, sadly.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Please explain to me what you like Mikie Sherrill. What bills has she brought to congress that you approve of, what policy proposals doe she have that you like, and why do you think she's a leader?





That which has be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.



This is an incoherent non-argument. You're literally just arguing that you're right because you're right because you're right. Anyone with even a poor understanding of debate knows why this is unpersuasive nonsense. It's one thing if you're a moderate and you have core ideological differences, it's another thing entirely to assert that your opponent is wrong because they belong to a class of people you think are dumb, and thus you can summarily disregard anything they say or think.

Like you don't need to look very deep for how fallacious, unpersuasive, and dishonest this line of argumentation is.


This is my last post to you on this thread, there's clearly no ground to be made here. You simply view your opponents are brain dead idiots and you think ad hominem attacks are valid lines of reasoning. Not much to see here, sadly.

What I see in Sherrill? For one thing, she doesn't say stupidities like your chick who thinks the people of NY will get to spend now, 3 billion that are non-existing. I mentioned potential. They are both young congresswomen so neither one has a lot of accomplishments to display. But one is intelligent and well-prepared. The other one is dumb and naive. Sorry, but I'll stick with the intelligent and well-prepared one as having more potential.
-------
Whatever. The sitting-out Millennials DID contribute to Trump's win. That's a fact, but you don't want to see it, therefore you just dismiss what I'm saying. Fell free to remain in denial. I don't have much appetite to debate with someone who is in denial (and thinks AOC and Bernie are God's Gift to America - like I said, I don't have much respect for this kind of person), so, your unwillingness to engage with me is very much welcome. Good riddance.

 

[Moderate Right]

Yes, I am aware. The Dems are split up into two different groups, and the moderates hate AOC. It's not at all shocking.

So, you understand that when Trump won by thumbing his nose at the establishment of both parties, he gets a low approval rating and is disliked by so many and why the media and Obama's deep state are and were out to get him?

 

[FieldTheorist]

So, you understand that when Trump won by thumbing his nose at the establishment of both parties, he gets a low approval rating and is disliked by so many and why the media and Obama's deep state are and were out to get him?

1. I agree that Trump won by being anti-establishment, but also because he was racist, anti-immigrant, ant-Muslim, and anti-media.

2. He gets a low approval rating because he's an idiot and his brand of anti-establishment politics is disingenuous and harmful to the country.

3. Yeah, I mean the media and the elite are repulsed by him. A lot of it is for legitimate reasons, but a lot of it is also just because he doesn't play ball with them the way they like to. Also, although they will never admit it, they're embarrassed that he manipulated them into giving him 2 billion dollars of free air time and that they basically made his presidency happen.

4. There's no Obama-deep-state. That's a delusional fantasy by right-wing conspiracy theorists. There is a "deep state", in terms of organizations that directly and heavily influence our political system, but that's mostly just the ultra-wealthy, the fortune 500's, and politically entrenched families. In other words, the people most likely to be Republicans and economically conservative capitalists. Those groups have had undue influence over every US president since there have been US presidents.

5. Trump has made the overwhelming majority of these problems for himself. He talks like a child, he has the intelligence of a 16 year-old, he's had literally everything handed to him in his life --it's pretty hard to respect the guy or feel sorry for him, speaking personally. He's good at surfing a crowd's energy though, and he knows how to tell people what they think they want to hear.

 

[Mongidig]

I think for the Green New Deal to ever have a chance they will need a new spokesman. AOC is the worst politician I have ever seen answering questions. It's cringe worthy! She sounds ok as long as it is a prepared statement. I was watching on youtube a guy interviewing people at a NGD rally and 3 of the 4 interviewees had no ability to explain what it was about. One lady, however, actually sounded reasonable and presented it in a way that didn't sound completely retarded. The NGD is complete turd in it's current form. I do think if Dems cut out the radicals and presented some realistic ideas we could start a conversation. AOC has got to go! I wouldn't hire her to clean my house. She should just bartend.

 

[Moderate Right]

1. I agree that Trump won by being anti-establishment, but also because he was racist, anti-immigrant, ant-Muslim, and anti-media.

2. He gets a low approval rating because he's an idiot and his brand of anti-establishment politics is disingenuous and harmful to the country.

3. Yeah, I mean the media and the elite are repulsed by him. A lot of it is for legitimate reasons, but a lot of it is also just because he doesn't play ball with them the way they like to. Also, although they will never admit it, they're embarrassed that he manipulated them into giving him 2 billion dollars of free air time and that they basically made his presidency happen.

4. There's no Obama-deep-state. That's a delusional fantasy by right-wing conspiracy theorists. There is a "deep state", in terms of organizations that directly and heavily influence our political system, but that's mostly just the ultra-wealthy, the fortune 500's, and politically entrenched families. In other words, the people most likely to be Republicans and economically conservative capitalists. Those groups have had undue influence over every US president since there have been US presidents.

5. Trump has made the overwhelming majority of these problems for himself. He talks like a child, he has the intelligence of a 16 year-old, he's had literally everything handed to him in his life --it's pretty hard to respect the guy or feel sorry for him, speaking personally. He's good at surfing a crowd's energy though, and he knows how to tell people what they think they want to hear.

1. You don't win the presidency by being a racist. If that were so, and you believe that is why he won, then how do you ever expect to win another election? That's just ridiculous left wing propaganda. Trump and Republicans are anti-illegal immigrant, not anti-legal immigrant. And, he was not anti-Muslim he was anti-radical Muslim. That is also ridiculous left wing propaganda. Trump was fine with many Muslims coming into the country from countries that weren't terrorist threats. The public has had waning trust in the media for decades so yes, when the media show their true colors and Trump calls them out for what the public already knows, yes, that helped him get elected. Maybe the media should quit with the biased news coverage and report the news fairly without a bias to one side and people may start trusting them more.

2. I guess then that you admit that AOC would get a low approval rating because she is an idiot.

3. I might have to agree with that. I do find it interesting though that in all of your responses you never once mention Trump and Russian collusion being responsible for Trump winning.

4. Every administration has a deep state, Obama being the worst up until now. Trump is currently putting his in place so that if a Democrat should win the presidency in 2020, the Trump deep state will be set. Then you guys will be crying about the deep state and all the behind the scenes leaking to the media and causing all sorts of trouble in order to thwart the other party's agenda, including nonstop investigations. It's the way politics is on both sides now. The minority party's job is to be obstructionist and the resistance to bide time until the next election.

5. Fairly accurate with the caveat that Trump has the country running well in several different areas. Trump's systematic dismantling of liberalism is like pouring salt in the left's wounds after their very embarrassing defeat.

I think it would behoove the left to understand that changing the Democratic party into the Democratic Socialist Party would actually help Trump get re-elected. That's why McConnell is foaming at the mouth to bring up a vote in the Senate on the Green New Deal. He wants these people to own the fact of how far left these idiots want to move the country. Polls already show that support for Medicare For All is actually decreasing once intelligent Americans know what lunacy it is. As usual the left make a splash with healthcare for all, education for all, and let's save the environment but when voters see that it is nothing more than an empty rallying cry and a soft coup attempt to turn the country into socialism, voters begin rejecting it. Now Elizabeth Warren wants a wealth tax to pay for child care. So, how is she going to decrease the deficit? How is she going to pay for Medicare For All? How is she going to pay for free education? How is she going to pay for infrastructure? How is she going to pay for the Green New Deal? I mean, she used the wealth tax up for child care.

 

[GreatNews2night]

I love this fake pic, it illustrates well the merit in AOC's pipe dreams proposals:

100% Renewable energy explained by AOC : JoeRogan

 

[Abbazorkzog]

I love this fake pic, it illustrates well the merit in AOC's pipe dreams proposals:

100% Renewable energy explained by AOC : JoeRogan

Lol "slightly liberal" my ass

 

[GreatNews2night]

Lol "slightly liberal" my ass

Yes, I'm slightly liberal, a definition that is the closest DebatePolitics has to characterize the center-left which is where I belong. No, I don't like the extreme left like AOC, and no, I don't like the extreme right either. I don't mind centrists and center-right people. But I think the extreme left is just as bad as the extreme right.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Yes, I'm slightly liberal, a definition that is the closest DebatePolitics has to characterize the center-left which is where I belong. No, I don't like the extreme left like AOC, and no, I don't like the extreme right either. I don't mind centrists and center-right people. But I think the extreme left is just as bad as the extreme right.

Yet, what is to America the 'centre' is to the rest of western civilization 'right-wing' to 'centre-right'...

 

[Surrealistik]

Yet, what is to America the 'centre' is to the rest of western civilization 'right-wing' to 'centre-right'...

Centre right at best and so far as I can tell even that would be a stretch. I would consider Canada a bridge between the American and European political frame of reference, and Obama and Hillary alike would be considered staunch conservatives here on everything but social issues.

 

[Mongidig]

It's pretty disturbing that 33 of you would vote for AOC. Many of you voted for Hillary and continue to put yourself on the wrong side of history. Do you guy's support Antifa? This move to the left needs to be stopped. I hope the President has a plan.

 

[LouC]

It's pretty disturbing that 33 of you would vote for AOC. Many of you voted for Hillary and continue to put yourself on the wrong side of history. Do you guy's support Antifa? This move to the left needs to be stopped. I hope the President has a plan.

What is far, FAR worse than 33 of us speculating that we would vote for AOC is the real and reprehensible 62,984,825 popular votes cast in 2016, by fools and other people, for Obese Donald, which lead to the 306 idiots in the Electoral College following the lunacy and voting for what has been the worst American president in my lifetime, if not ever!

I support all legal and in particular non violent protest by any individual or group of citizens wishing to exercise peacefully their First Amendment "right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If Antifa fails that litmus test then no, I would never support them.

Move to the Left needs to be stopped?

That is hilarious!

It was the unrelenting extreme move to the Right, and eventually the ascension of Obese Donald, that this Former happy lifelong Registered Republican experienced that literally LEFT me out.

You hope the president has a plan?

What sort of plan are you speaking of?

Some anti Democrat/Liberal political pogrom to make America great again?

 

[Mongidig]

What is far, FAR worse than 33 of us speculating that we would vote for AOC is the real and reprehensible 62,984,825 popular votes cast in 2016, by fools and other people, for Obese Donald, which lead to the 306 idiots in the Electoral College following the lunacy and voting for what has been the worst American president in my lifetime, if not ever!

I support all legal and in particular non violent protest by any individual or group of citizens wishing to exercise peacefully their First Amendment "right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If Antifa fails that litmus test then no, I would never support them.

Move to the Left needs to be stopped?

That is hilarious!

It was the unrelenting extreme move to the Right, and eventually the ascension of Obese Donald, that this Former happy lifelong Registered Republican experienced that literally LEFT me out.

You hope the president has a plan?

What sort of plan are you speaking of?

Some anti Democrat/Liberal political pogrom to make America great again?

"If Antifa fails that litmus test"? They most certainly have failed. They are a fascist group. A violent group. They literally bring weapons to their protests. These are the groups that need to be wiped out. They protest an enemy that isn't even there..........Have you noticed they are all like stick figures? They are like 5'5" and weigh maybe a hundred pounds. Also, the biggest loud mouths in the group are the females(sort of). They are unwilling to engage in conversation. They cost tax payers tons of money so that police can protect them.

With regards to AOC. Her movement is going to get Trump elected again. A country of 300 million people does not have the stomach for "radical change" especially change towards Socialism. She is cute and bubbly I'll give her that. I think she would be better off driving a Red Bull truck or doing some type of marketing job. She is clearly not ready for the grown ups table. Trump would be better off letting her run wild and continue to split the Democrats.

You weren't moved to the left by Trump, you are a natural leftist so stop.