Would You Ever Vote AOC For President?

[FieldTheorist]

]Look, I couldn't agree more about Hillary Clinton. I've said before, she is the person MOST responsible for Trump. Still, I'm glad for you that you did vote for the lesser evil, and this surprised me a little, because you were praising AOC for carrying Bernie's torch, and usually, these Bernie types are precisely the ones who stayed home.

Your assumption is that Sanders/AOC supporters are fringe lunatics and fanatical ideologues. This is your error. This is why you've taken an incredibly hostile tone with me from the outset --because you are making assumptions about how stupid a group of people are. But once again, to bring facts into the conversation, 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Contrariwise, 15% of Clinton voters in 2008 voted for McCain.

For some reason, facts never mattered when it came to the 2016 election. People continue to persist in a fairy-tale regarding most of the events that helped propel Trump and the people who are actually fringe lunatics. Speaking of which:

But the problem is, a lot of them DID NOT SHOW UP TO VOTE AT ALL. [...] Let me tell you who I blame for Trump, in order:

1. Hillary Clinton. The single most responsible person for this disaster we're in.
2. Bernie Sanders. The second most responsible person.
3. James Comey. Even with incompetent #1 and naive #2, the Dems would still have won without that letter
4. People who sat out of the elections, not knowing how decisive it was for our future, and for the SCOTUS - Insert Millennials here, and others
5. John Podesta. What a doofus. He made the Russian interference possible by idiotically neglecting Internet security and being the target of the main hacking job
6. The Russians
7. Misinformed blue collar workers and assorted white trash racists who didn't know that they were shooting themselves in the foot when voting for Trump

But dude, Millennials didn't vote for Trump. Do you know who voted for Trump? The older generations. The majority of your "wise, pragmatic" generation --they are the ones who voted for Trump.

It's an unbelievable, intellectually bankrupt slight-of-hand to say that the generation --whom only 28% of them voted for Trump, 58% of whom voted voted for his opponent-- is more responsible for Trump than the generation that voted for Trump at a rate of 52%.

Sorry, you're just never going to win with this argument because it's so openly absurd.

So, when you opened saying how spectacular AOC is, and how she makes sense and carries Bernie's torch... sorry, but I lost all intellectual respect for you.

Why you are wrong? No, unlike you are saying, I did say why. It's because one CANNOT turn America into a socialist country, or not even a social democracy, in one term. Yay, free tuition for everybody! Free healthcare for everybody!!! Yay!!! - with no plan on how to pay for it, and how to force thousands of private businesses into this model.

This "logic" is the self-fulfilling prophecy that is causing the US to fail now.

Either the US evolves and makes a future for itself, or it decays into irrelevancy and China and India gladly take our future and our fortunes. If we continue at this rate, there is almost no question that China will surpass us in 20 years. Americans need to shake from themselves for the delusional drug of believing in an ethereal future where we slowly, gradually make things better, and gradually, slowly the US makes better decisions. Either we make commitments to major changes to the way US does business and government and foreign affairs --or the US will fail as an experiment. Period. There aren't other options on the table. There is no longer time --we spent it all waiting, doing nothing, and believing that if we just waited a little bit longer and did things just a little bit slower eventually things would get better. They did not, and now the only path forward is a bold one. Even a risky one --but it's that or toil into history books and be remembered as a once-great empire.

My greatest distaste for people over the age of 50 (I mean as a class, not as individuals) is the culture of intense apathy and cynicism that parades itself around as wisdom and pragmatism. But it is neither wise nor pragmatic to continue to deny what the future of the US will be like.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Sorry to disagree but, the truth is, even her own side thinks she's nuts. Almost 100% of what she wants could not be achieved. The goals are way too lofty. Yes, it would be great if everyone had free medical care, everyone tolerated everyone, there were no poor, and the climate wasn't warming. Who could disagree with that? But, you might as well set a goal of manned exploration of a black hole because that is where these policies are going to take us.

The "her side" that doesn't agree with her isn't "her side". It's a bunch of Republicans who don't want to continue to be associated with racists and want to break that alliance, so they call themselves "moderate Democrats" and wine-and-dine with billionaires. But the Howard Schultz's of the world are not an ascendant part of American politics.

 

[FieldTheorist]

This isn't Mcdonalds where you start off in the drive through and quickly move up to manager. This is real life. AOC is not going to be President ever! 75% percent of those dummies in white at the SOTU will be gone in a couple years. The stupid little kids like her because she is a stupid little kid.

We'll find out, but right now I find this stupid little argument to be uncompeling and lacking basis.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Your assumption is that Sanders/AOC supporters are fringe lunatics and fanatical ideologues. This is your error. This is why you've taken an incredibly hostile tone with me from the outset --because you are making assumptions about how stupid a group of people are. But once again, to bring facts into the conversation, 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Contrariwise, 15% of Clinton voters in 2008 voted for McCain.

For some reason, facts never mattered when it came to the 2016 election. People continue to persist in a fairy-tale regarding most of the events that helped propel Trump and the people who are actually fringe lunatics. Speaking of which:




But dude, Millennials didn't vote for Trump. Do you know who voted for Trump? The older generations. The majority of your "wise, pragmatic" generation --they are the ones who voted for Trump.

It's an unbelievable, intellectually bankrupt slight-of-hand to say that the generation --whom only 28% of them voted for Trump, 58% of whom voted voted for his opponent-- is more responsible for Trump than the generation that voted for Trump at a rate of 52%.

Sorry, you're just never going to win with this argument because it's so openly absurd.




This "logic" is the self-fulfilling prophecy that is causing the US to fail now.

Either the US evolves and makes a future for itself, or it decays into irrelevancy and China and India gladly take our future and our fortunes. If we continue at this rate, there is almost no question that China will surpass us in 20 years. Americans need to shake from themselves for the delusional drug of believing in an ethereal future where we slowly, gradually make things better, and gradually, slowly the US makes better decisions. Either we make commitments to major changes to the way US does business and government and foreign affairs --or the US will fail as an experiment. Period. There aren't other options on the table. There is no longer time --we spent it all waiting, doing nothing, and believing that if we just waited a little bit longer and did things just a little bit slower eventually things would get better. They did not, and now the only path forward is a bold one. Even a risky one --but it's that or toil into history books and be remembered as a once-great empire.

My greatest distaste for people over the age of 50 (I mean as a class, not as individuals) is the culture of intense apathy and cynicism that parades itself around as wisdom and pragmatism. But it is neither wise nor pragmatic to continue to deny what the future of the US will be like.

Sure, sure, let's all take BOLD action! Wheeee, free tuition for all!!! Bernie! Bernie!
Result: we got Trump. And we got Trump's SCOTUS justices.
Yeah, sure, your path is working just fine. [insert sarcasm here]

 

[FieldTheorist]

Sure, sure, let's all take BOLD action! Wheeee, free tuition for all!!! Bernie! Bernie!
Result: we got Trump. And we got Trump's SCOTUS justices.
Yeah, sure, your path is working just fine. [insert sarcasm here]

In other words, you cannot mount an argument against the irrefutable truth that Millennials are not responsible for Donald Trump since that clearly lies with the older generations who actually voted for him. Noted, and thanks for playing.

 

[jamesrage]

Yes, she is of age (in this hypothetical). This is a generic question. No opponents are named. This is just a question of would you ever vote her president or not.

Nope. I am not a leech I.E. a socialist scumbag. So most of her ideas do not appeal to me. I am not for the government stealing 70 percent of someone's income to give free **** to everyone else.

 

[Moderate Right]

The "her side" that doesn't agree with her isn't "her side". It's a bunch of Republicans who don't want to continue to be associated with racists and want to break that alliance, so they call themselves "moderate Democrats" and wine-and-dine with billionaires. But the Howard Schultz's of the world are not an ascendant part of American politics.

Her side is Democrats, starting with Nancy Pelosi. I hope it is voted on because then we will know who really is on her side.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Democrats rigged the primaries to give Hillary the nomination and it feel in on them. Hillary was a terribel candidate, an unlikeable person and an elitist that reeked of I'm so smart and the one who deserves to be president. She didn't run a smart campaign because she and most of her supporters and political advisers didn't believe Trump ever had a chance to win. They put together the Trump Dossier just in case they needed some insurance and eventually that entire affair is going to come apart on them. If you watch you see little pieces of the puzzle coming undone as the leader of that coup begin to run for cover and turn on one another.

 

[FieldTheorist]

Her side is Democrats, starting with Nancy Pelosi. I hope it is voted on because then we will know who really is on her side.

Nancy Pelosi can only be viewed favorably through the prism of even more virulent scum --like Donald Trump. So yeah, Nancy Pelosi says bad things about AOC. I don't really care. Pelosi is still butthurt that AOC said Pelosi should have a challenger as the Speaker of the House. Pelosi has a personal problem with AOC --and so do Pelosi's donors. So Pelosi will say what Pelosi has to say, because Pelosi always listens to her donors.

 

[Surrealistik]

Both sides twist the facts and present half truths. Obama and the Democrats had six good years to fight income inequality. You know what the result was? Income inequality got worse for every year of those six years. It is a very complex problem that can't be solved by grunting and groaning and simplistically saying we should rob from the rich and give to the poor. If you took every dime of the one percenters you couldn't pay back the national dent. You probably couldn't even balance the budget. AOC can steer us right into the black hole so, yes, she can do worse. Ever hear of the Great Depression? Even her own colleagues know there isn't that much money in the world. California has given up several times on single payer healthcare and have now given up on high speed rail. Liberals only solution to these problems is to put all of them on the government's charge card and yet you yourself admit that we have already spent ourselves into oblivion.

I'm pretty sure I already explained the situation with SP in California: namely that insurer shill Anthony Rendon, in a move reminiscent of fellow insurance shill Joe Manchin back per the ACA, spiked the proposal without even trying to find funding for it, the latter of which was his job; this isn't like the state as a whole decided against it, and his actions were in fact protested. California's missteps with high speed rail does not impugn the broader scope ideas of progressives; anecdote isn't evidence. I'm sure you can cherrypick just about any example of wasteful spending, such as which exists habitually in the military that 'moderates' keep voting to increase the funding of without engaging in any kind of commensurate oversight for example, nevermind the slew of private enterprises that fail every year. It would be asinine to assert that this means all govt spending or all private sector activity is wasteful and inefficient.

Moreover, the failure of Obama and the Democrats at the time is the failure of moderates, as is the failure of Bush and his historic boondoggles; by no means can either of them be considered progressives in any sense other than the former on the social axis.

And yes, income inequality is a complex problem that requires solutions beyond simply increasing marginal tax rates for the wealthy, the latter of which was never considered the one and only silver bullet necessary to overcome it, whether we're talking about Bernie, AOC, or otherwise. Our solutions go beyond simply more reasonable tax burdens and strike at things like rescinding subsidies, loopholes, and most importantly, money in politics; it is a comprehensive, multipronged approach that cannot be pidgeonholed into some kind of ridiculous monotone 'eat the rich' strawman.

And yes, I did hear of the Great Depression, and the New Deal combined with sweeping social spending and reforms per FDR, one of the greatest presidents, if not the greatest (rivaled by only Lincoln), managed to abate the worst of it until military mobilization for WW2 took care of the rest.

AOC can't do worse for the simple reason that decades of moderates have literally done nothing but drive us into the black hole, and progressive solutions at least have a chance of getting us out of the dire situation these people have put us in; more of the same is clearly not going to work.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Its a shame we cannot take the northeast coast and the west coast and let the democrats have them with AOC as their president and the republicans get the heartland and we could watch the dems run their country bankrupt and ask us for help.

 

[GreatNews2night]

In other words, you cannot mount an argument against the irrefutable truth that Millennials are not responsible for Donald Trump since that clearly lies with the older generations who actually voted for him. Noted, and thanks for playing.

No, I've already made my argument, but with either your bias, or your reading comprehension issues, you can't grasp it.
Sure, older white Americans voted for Trump.
But it was within the reach of the Millennials to stop Trump. They came to vote in force for Obama. A significant chunk of them sat out this election, due to BERNIE BERNIE THE GOD GOT CHEATED ON!! (Which by the way is a very simplistic view; he simply didn't have enough primary votes).

Like I said MULTIPLE times (but you are too simple to understand), several groups were responsible for Trump's win. I quoted them.

But among them, the Millennials who sat out were ALSO responsible.

And like I said MULTIPLE times (but maybe you aren't intelligent enough to grasp), the election was decided by 80,000 votes in 3 states, so, had those DUMB Millennials adopted the lesser evil, Trump wouldn't be president, therefore, they are ALSO responsible for the current state of affairs. I blame the other groups too. I'm not fond of any of them, who contributed to this disaster - but the Millennials definitely did contribute too.

Thanks for playing. That's all that you Millennials do. You play videogames... you think you are all grown up and smart. Unfortunately for the rest of us, no, you aren't.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Nancy Pelosi can only be viewed favorably through the prism of even more virulent scum --like Donald Trump. So yeah, Nancy Pelosi says bad things about AOC. I don't really care. Pelosi is still butthurt that AOC said Pelosi should have a challenger as the Speaker of the House. Pelosi has a personal problem with AOC --and so do Pelosi's donors. So Pelosi will say what Pelosi has to say, because Pelosi always listens to her donors.

Pelosi is about 1,000 times smarter, politically savvier, and more experienced than your dumb idol AOC. Don't even try to compare them. Your chick is a microbe compared to Pelosi. She is about as worthy as a flea in Pelosi's dog.

 

[Integrityrespec]

No, I've already made my argument, but with either your bias, or your reading comprehension issues, you can't grasp it.
Sure, older white Americans voted for Trump.
But it was within the reach of the Millennials to stop Trump. They came to vote in force for Obama. A significant chunk of them sat out this election, due to BERNIE BERNIE THE GOD GOT CHEATED ON!! (Which by the way is a very simplistic view; he simply didn't have enough primary votes).

Like I said MULTIPLE times (but you are too simple to understand), several groups were responsible for Trump's win. I quoted them.

But among them, the Millennials who sat out were ALSO responsible.

And like I said MULTIPLE times (but maybe you aren't intelligent enough to grasp), the election was decided by 80,000 votes in 3 states, so, had those DUMB Millennials adopted the lesser evil, Trump wouldn't be president, therefore, they are ALSO responsible for the current state of affairs. I blame the other groups too. I'm not fond of any of them, who contributed to this disaster - but the Millennials definitely did contribute too.

Thanks for playing. That's all that you Millennials do. You play videogames... you think you are all grown up and smart. Unfortunately for the rest of us, no, you aren't.

You folks lost because you nominated Hillary Clinton, no other reason mattered. She was a bad choice but she owned the democratic party and they went along with her. Bad planning, bad campaigning and failure to recognize the outrage by middle class america with bad politicians. Instead of seeing this, you just scream Trump is deranged. Better be careful because democrats are on the way to pushing so far left they are going to get fooled at election time again.

 

[GreatNews2night]

You folks lost because you nominated Hillary Clinton, no other reason mattered. She was a bad choice but she owned the democratic party and they went along with her. Bad planning, bad campaigning and failure to recognize the outrage by middle class america with bad politicians. Instead of seeing this, you just scream Trump is deranged. Better be careful because democrats are on the way to pushing so far left they are going to get fooled at election time again.

Who says I don't see it? You're not paying attention. Read the thread. Read the posts. Read at least the posts of the person you're blaming, because if you did, you'd see that I even listed, in order, the names of the people I consider most responsible for Trump's win.

Guess what? I listed Hillary the absolute #1, and said in all letters that the incompetent idiot is MOST responsible for her opponent's win.

So, get down from your high horse and pay attention before you criticize people who are saying the SAME thing you are saying.

 

[Mongidig]

Its a shame we cannot take the northeast coast and the west coast and let the democrats have them with AOC as their president and the republicans get the heartland and we could watch the dems run their country bankrupt and ask us for help.

We can then watch as climate change causes the flooding of both coasts and we can all live happily ever after

 

[The Mark]

Let me tell you who I blame for Trump, in order:

1. Hillary Clinton. The single most responsible person for this disaster we're in.
2. Bernie Sanders. The second most responsible person.
3. James Comey. Even with incompetent #1 and naive #2, the Dems would still have won without that letter
4. People who sat out of the elections, not knowing how decisive it was for our future, and for the SCOTUS - Insert Millennials here, and others
5. John Podesta. What a doofus. He made the Russian interference possible by idiotically neglecting Internet security and being the target of the main hacking job
6. The Russians
7. Misinformed blue collar workers and assorted white trash racists who didn't know that they were shooting themselves in the foot when voting for Trump

I tend to have a different list.

1. Money (donated to control or at the least influence politicians).
2. The Media (mainstream, but some of the more fringe right-wing media as well).
3. The Democratic Party, and more specifically the DNC part of it. It allowed Clinton to use it to her own ends.
4. Hillary Clinton - for doing the same old thing in the face of a new reality.
5. Various voter suppression measures implemented by those politicians and officials not doing their duty to the people.
6. The people of America who allowed themselves to be convinced to vote for either Clinton or Trump.
7. The people of America who did not vote.
8. Comey, but not really. That ties into the first 2-4 items
9. Russia, but not really. Items 1-4 as well are mainly the cause.

 

[GreatNews2night]

I tend to have a different list.

1. Money (donated to control or at the least influence politicians).
2. The Media (mainstream, but some of the more fringe right-wing media as well).
3. The Democratic Party, and more specifically the DNC part of it. It allowed Clinton to use it to her own ends.
4. Hillary Clinton - for doing the same old thing in the face of a new reality.
5. Various voter suppression measures implemented by those politicians and officials not doing their duty to the people.
6. The people of America who allowed themselves to be convinced to vote for either Clinton or Trump.
7. The people of America who did not vote.
8. Comey, but not really. That ties into the first 2-4 items
9. Russia, but not really. Items 1-4 as well are mainly the cause.

Fair enough. We still think along the same lines. All these groups have their share of guilt.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Nancy Pelosi can only be viewed favorably through the prism of even more virulent scum --like Donald Trump. So yeah, Nancy Pelosi says bad things about AOC. I don't really care. Pelosi is still butthurt that AOC said Pelosi should have a challenger as the Speaker of the House. Pelosi has a personal problem with AOC --and so do Pelosi's donors. So Pelosi will say what Pelosi has to say, because Pelosi always listens to her donors.

By the way, if you want a Pelosi opponent (who didn't vote for her as speaker), instead of supporting the idiotic, dumb, inappropriate, shoot-the-party-in-the-foot moron known as AOC, support Mikie Sherril. She is a hundred times better, smarter, and with more potential for a substantial career than AOC (who will likely just fade, when people notice how shallow and naive she is). Mikie is a very impressive young politician, as shown by how she beat the odds in New Jersey's 11th district (she flipped it, unlike AOC who just benefited from a safe district). This Navy veteran is a tough and intelligent woman, with degrees from the Navy Academy, the London School of Economics, and Georgetown Law.

I admire her a lot more than your moronic idol.

Oh, and look how funny (showing how misinformed you are) - did you know that your idol AOC, unlike Mikie Sherrill, DID vote for Pelosi for speaker? LOL

GOP lawmakers groan as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez votes for Nancy Pelosi to be speaker

 

[Surrealistik]

By the way, if you want a Pelosi opponent (who didn't vote for her as speaker), instead of supporting the idiotic, dumb, inappropriate, shoot-the-party-in-the-foot moron known as AOC, support Mikie Sherril. She is a hundred times better, smarter, and with more potential for a substantial career than AOC (who will likely just fade, when people notice how shallow and naive she is). Mikie is a very impressive young politician, as shown by how she beat the odds in New Jersey's 11th district (she flipped it, unlike AOC who just benefited from a safe district). This Navy veteran is a tough and intelligent woman, with degrees from the Navy Academy, the London School of Economics, and Georgetown Law.

I admire her a lot more than your moronic idol.

Oh, and look how funny (showing how misinformed you are) - did you know that your idol AOC, unlike Mikie Sherrill, DID vote for Pelosi for speaker? LOL

GOP lawmakers groan as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez votes for Nancy Pelosi to be speaker

Hmm, a Blue Dog Democrat that's likely even more to the right than Pelosi is; I think I'll pass.

Also regarding a lot of your other posts here thus far, hyperbole and pejoratives predicated on essentially nothing aren't arguments.

 

[Moderate Right]

Nancy Pelosi can only be viewed favorably through the prism of even more virulent scum --like Donald Trump. So yeah, Nancy Pelosi says bad things about AOC. I don't really care. Pelosi is still butthurt that AOC said Pelosi should have a challenger as the Speaker of the House. Pelosi has a personal problem with AOC --and so do Pelosi's donors. So Pelosi will say what Pelosi has to say, because Pelosi always listens to her donors.

There wre many more Democrats than just Pelosi.

 

[Moderate Right]

I'm pretty sure I already explained the situation with SP in California: namely that insurer shill Anthony Rendon, in a move reminiscent of fellow insurance shill Joe Manchin back per the ACA, spiked the proposal without even trying to find funding for it, the latter of which was his job; this isn't like the state as a whole decided against it, and his actions were in fact protested. California's missteps with high speed rail does not impugn the broader scope ideas of progressives; anecdote isn't evidence. I'm sure you can cherrypick just about any example of wasteful spending, such as which exists habitually in the military that 'moderates' keep voting to increase the funding of without engaging in any kind of commensurate oversight for example, nevermind the slew of private enterprises that fail every year. It would be asinine to assert that this means all govt spending or all private sector activity is wasteful and inefficient.

Moreover, the failure of Obama and the Democrats at the time is the failure of moderates, as is the failure of Bush and his historic boondoggles; by no means can either of them be considered progressives in any sense other than the former on the social axis.

And yes, income inequality is a complex problem that requires solutions beyond simply increasing marginal tax rates for the wealthy, the latter of which was never considered the one and only silver bullet necessary to overcome it, whether we're talking about Bernie, AOC, or otherwise. Our solutions go beyond simply more reasonable tax burdens and strike at things like rescinding subsidies, loopholes, and most importantly, money in politics; it is a comprehensive, multipronged approach that cannot be pidgeonholed into some kind of ridiculous monotone 'eat the rich' strawman.

And yes, I did hear of the Great Depression, and the New Deal combined with sweeping social spending and reforms per FDR, one of the greatest presidents, if not the greatest (rivaled by only Lincoln), managed to abate the worst of it until military mobilization for WW2 took care of the rest.

AOC can't do worse for the simple reason that decades of moderates have literally done nothing but drive us into the black hole, and progressive solutions at least have a chance of getting us out of the dire situation these people have put us in; more of the same is clearly not going to work.

Excuses excuses excuses. Your very own people have found these things to be infeasible but don't let that stop you because you think that with the US government's borrowing power you can finally do it.

 

[marke]

Its a shame we cannot take the northeast coast and the west coast and let the democrats have them with AOC as their president and the republicans get the heartland and we could watch the dems run their country bankrupt and ask us for help.

California is not about to stop sucking on the federal government tit. California fights against federal laws to bus in illegal aliens and then sues in court to force the US government to pay for their care while in the country and unemployed.

 

[Logician Man]

Its a shame we cannot take the northeast coast and the west coast and let the democrats have them with AOC as their president and the republicans get the heartland and we could watch the dems run their country bankrupt and ask us for help.

Who gets the southeast coast and the Gulf of Mexico regions ?

 

[Mongidig]

AOC thought that NYC could spend the 3 billion in tax breaks that was going to go to Amazon on other things for the good of NY. The little kids all ate this up of course.

I bet a bunch of the dummies on here believed she could do that to.