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Why aren't 2020 Democrat candidates recusing themselves from the Senate trial?

Athanasius68 said:
1. There is a reason why the chief Justice and not the vice president presides over an impeachment trial of a president.
And that's because we all know it would be rather unseemly to put the VP in a positron where it appeard to personally benefit from a conviction and removal.

2. As above. The three have power to remove from office the man they wish to replace with themselves.

It's the same argument being made against Trump.

3. The other senators aren't in a position to use their office for a personal political benefit.
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They do not have power alone to remove Trump from office.

Do you have any knowledge of history when it comes to impeaching a President? It is not likely to happen due to how hard it is. Saying they specifically have the power to impeach the President is very wrong. They each share that power with 99 other people, over half of which are in Trumps party (many already declaring their vote) and it takes a supermajority to actually succeed.

It is not accurate to claim that having a vote in the Senate to impeach the President for abuse of power for something he solely had power in doing at the time of his offense is comparable to potentially being matched up in a Presidential race against someone else rather than him.

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Candidates helped by a long impeachment trial:

Biden
Bloomberg
Buttigieg
Delaney
Patrick
Steyer
Yang

Candidates most harmed by a long impeachment:

Bennet
Klobuchar
Sanders
Warren
 
Acadia said:
If Trump is being impeached with the ultimate goal of removing him from office and the 2020 election race, why are 2020 Democrats permitted to hold his destiny in their hands, when they can realistically benefit from his removal?

The motivation is the same, is it not? If Trump wanted Ukraine to publicly investigate his 2020 rival for the express purpose of getting him out of the 2020 race, to his benefit, then how is this different?

Each 2020 Dem candidate who sits in judgement simply cannot deny that IF they vote guilty and Trump is removed, they will all but guarantee that their party will win the 2020 election, and be in power, if not further, they as and individual just might become the most powerful person on earth.

They have the power to remove the biggest obstacle to Democrats winning in 2020.

They must recuse, right?. The conflict of interest is impeachable!
Click to expand...

As soon as lindsey and mitch recuse themselves we'll talk. They both already told us they are not going to be impartial.
 
roguenuke said:
My god some people are either willfully ignorant or in denial. Just because he claimed it was for "us", doesnt mean it wasnt really for him. Neither investigation Trump asked Ukraine for in that call would truly benefit the country. Both would have benefitted Trump. Even just an announcement of investigations into those two things would benefit Trump. Especially since both are based on highly unsupported conspiracy theories that were/are likely to return no sort of charges or trials against any entities mentioned.

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Click to expand...

Thats the theory and the claim by the House.
Trump WANTED to do something that would be for his PERSONAL benefit.

As as the OP points out, how is this any different than the situation that Sens, Warren, Sanders and Kloubacher are in?
 
bongsaway said:
As soon as lindsey and mitch recuse themselves we'll talk. They both already told us they are not going to be impartial.
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The therory of impeachment is that Trump wished to use his power of his office to advance a personal objective.
How are the three senators running for president not in the same situation?
 
roguenuke said:
They do not have power alone to remove Trump from office.

Do you have any knowledge of history when it comes to impeaching a President? It is not likely to happen due to how hard it is. Saying they specifically have the power to impeach the President is very wrong. They each share that power with 99 other people, over half of which are in Trumps party (many already declaring their vote) and it takes a supermajority to actually succeed.

It is not accurate to claim that having a vote in the Senate to impeach the President for abuse of power for something he solely had power in doing at the time of his offense is comparable to potentially being matched up in a Presidential race against someone else rather than him.

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Click to expand...

It doesn't matter whether its hard or easy or that those three cannot alone remove the president.
Trump was impeached because theory is that he wanted to use his political power to advance his personal interest.
Its no different for those three Democrats-- they have the power as Senators to advance their own political interest,
 
Athanasius68 said:
It doesn't matter whether its hard or easy or that those three cannot alone remove the president.
Trump was impeached because theory is that he wanted to use his political power to advance his personal interest.
Its no different for those three Democrats-- they have the power as Senators to advance their own political interest,
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no matter how many times you say this it will never be true, hence why people right, left and center are totally destroying your claim at every turn LMAO
 
Athanasius68 said:
The therory of impeachment is that Trump wished to use his power of his office to advance a personal objective.
How are the three senators running for president not in the same situation?
Click to expand...

Trump tried to influence another country into making false statements. I don't recall any of the senators you mention doing the same thing.

What about all the gop senators up for reelection? Will it benefit them to vote to remove trump?

That sword cuts both ways.
 
Acadia said:
If Trump is being impeached with the ultimate goal of removing him from office and the 2020 election race, why are 2020 Democrats permitted to hold his destiny in their hands, when they can realistically benefit from his removal?

The motivation is the same, is it not? If Trump wanted Ukraine to publicly investigate his 2020 rival for the express purpose of getting him out of the 2020 race, to his benefit, then how is this different?

Each 2020 Dem candidate who sits in judgement simply cannot deny that IF they vote guilty and Trump is removed, they will all but guarantee that their party will win the 2020 election, and be in power, if not further, they as and individual just might become the most powerful person on earth.

They have the power to remove the biggest obstacle to Democrats winning in 2020.

They must recuse, right?. The conflict of interest is impeachable!
Click to expand...

Interesting you would care about their actions while ignoring the fact that those running the Senate trial have already stated their not guilty verdict before the trial even begins. Hmmmm
 
Acadia said:
If Trump is being impeached with the ultimate goal of removing him from office and the 2020 election race, why are 2020 Democrats permitted to hold his destiny in their hands, when they can realistically benefit from his removal?

The motivation is the same, is it not? If Trump wanted Ukraine to publicly investigate his 2020 rival for the express purpose of getting him out of the 2020 race, to his benefit, then how is this different?

Each 2020 Dem candidate who sits in judgement simply cannot deny that IF they vote guilty and Trump is removed, they will all but guarantee that their party will win the 2020 election, and be in power, if not further, they as and individual just might become the most powerful person on earth.

They have the power to remove the biggest obstacle to Democrats winning in 2020.

They must recuse, right?. The conflict of interest is impeachable!
Click to expand...

Never actually thought about it that way, but you know what. she is 100% right.
it would be a huge conflict of interest for those senators running against trump to vote against him.

one might think they were doing using their position as senator for a personal gain.
which we all know if a removal offence.

we also know that there is no way they are going to be impartial.
 
veritas1 said:
There are no FACTS. There is a lot of OPINION which would be tossed out of any trial in America. Yet, we're supposed to remove Trump based on it. Unreal.
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Correct this never would have made it to a grand jury.

The Defense would have filed about 15 motions to dismiss testimony.
and this would have been thrown out of court on it's ear.

The prosecutors could have faced ethics hearings for conduct unbecoming for even attempting this.
malicious prosecution suits would have been filed on the spot.
 
ludin said:
Never actually thought about it that way, but you know what. she is 100% right.
it would be a huge conflict of interest for those senators running against trump to vote against him.

one might think they were doing using their position as senator for a personal gain.
which we all know if a removal offence.

we also know that there is no way they are going to be impartial.
Click to expand...

could the endorsement above be any more solid prove how monumentally failed, dishonesty, hypocritical and retarded the claim in the OPs link is LMAO
 
bongsaway said:
Trump tried to influence another country into making false statements. I don't recall any of the senators you mention doing the same thing.
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What are you talking about? The transcript refers to Biden's statement and the fact that his son was on the board of directors of Burisma.
No false statements being asked?

What about all the gop senators up for reelection? Will it benefit them to vote to remove trump?
Click to expand...

The charge against Trump is that he wanted to use the power of his office to obtain a personal benefit-- to be re-elected president.

Only those three senators are running for president and they have the same personal interest as Trump.
And they are in a position to exercise their political power to advance that personal cause.
Click to expand...
 
roguenuke said:
My god some people are either willfully ignorant or in denial. Just because he claimed it was for "us", doesnt mean it wasnt really for him. Neither investigation Trump asked Ukraine for in that call would truly benefit the country. Both would have benefitted Trump. Even just an announcement of investigations into those two things would benefit Trump. Especially since both are based on highly unsupported conspiracy theories that were/are likely to return no sort of charges or trials against any entities mentioned.

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Click to expand...

You guys keep ignoring the lengthy Jan. 2017 Politico piece that laid out all the shenanigans that went on. Ukraine had to quickly make amends with Trump after he won because they had been trying to sabotage his campaign, or at least the prior Ukrainian administration had tried to.
 
Fletch said:
Are you in any way unsure as to how Sanders or Warren will ultimately vote? Im not.
Click to expand...

I am confident that their votes will align with the preponderance of the FACTS presented.

You cannot say the same about people like McConnell and Graham, who have already declared their allegiance to the WH, in direct defiance of their obligations to the Constitution.

But, then again, you're ok with that because you share their "character" traits, I'm sure.
 
ultmd said:
I am confident that their votes will align with the preponderance of the FACTS presented.

You cannot say the same about people like McConnell and Graham, who have already declared their allegiance to the WH, in direct defiance of their obligations to the Constitution.
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In other words, if someone votes contrary to what YOU believe, they are violating the Constitution and horrible people and if they agree with you then they are wise and pure as the wind driven snow. Thats total crap.

But, then again, you're ok with that because you share their "character" traits, I'm sure.
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Is that supposed to be some sort of insult? If it is, it is every bit as lame as your arguments above.
 
Acadia said:
If Trump is being impeached with the ultimate goal of removing him from office and the 2020 election race, why are 2020 Democrats permitted to hold his destiny in their hands, when they can realistically benefit from his removal?

The motivation is the same, is it not? If Trump wanted Ukraine to publicly investigate his 2020 rival for the express purpose of getting him out of the 2020 race, to his benefit, then how is this different?

Each 2020 Dem candidate who sits in judgement simply cannot deny that IF they vote guilty and Trump is removed, they will all but guarantee that their party will win the 2020 election, and be in power, if not further, they as and individual just might become the most powerful person on earth.

They have the power to remove the biggest obstacle to Democrats winning in 2020.

They must recuse, right?. The conflict of interest is impeachable!
Click to expand...

i like Blackburn and agree w/ here except for ONE thing: Why should we have to wait for them to recuse themselves?

recusal should be forced in such a case
 
veritas1 said:
You guys keep ignoring the lengthy Jan. 2017 Politico piece that laid out all the shenanigans that went on. Ukraine had to quickly make amends with Trump after he won because they had been trying to sabotage his campaign, or at least the prior Ukrainian administration had tried to.
Click to expand...

What bull****. That simply isnt true. Even if it were, it still would not be in any way okay to add corruption to their plate to "make amends". And it would mean you are admitting Trump was taking advantage of that.

What is more likely is that Ukraine simply doesnt understand how our government works and believed that Trump as President had to be asskissed to get aid.

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Athanasius68 said:
It doesn't matter whether its hard or easy or that those three cannot alone remove the president.
Trump was impeached because theory is that he wanted to use his political power to advance his personal interest.
Its no different for those three Democrats-- they have the power as Senators to advance their own political interest,
Click to expand...
Yes it does matter. You are trying to compare those states. Anyone in the Senate benefits from Trump either staying in power or being removed. That is a fact. It cannot be proven that even those Senators vying for the Presidency would benefit more from his removal than anyone else or more than those who benefit from him staying in power.

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Athanasius68 said:
Thats the theory and the claim by the House.
Trump WANTED to do something that would be for his PERSONAL benefit.

As as the OP points out, how is this any different than the situation that Sens, Warren, Sanders and Kloubacher are in?
Click to expand...
Because their votes will not benefit them any more than any other Senators casting votes in such a hearing. At all.

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roguenuke said:
What bull****. That simply isnt true. Even if it were, it still would not be in any way okay to add corruption to their plate to "make amends". And it would mean you are admitting Trump was taking advantage of that.

What is more likely is that Ukraine simply doesnt understand how our government works and believed that Trump as President had to be asskissed to get aid.

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Click to expand...

Investigating irregularities in your own country is hardly corruption. Nothing Trump suggested they do, was illegal.
 
veritas1 said:
Investigating irregularities in your own country is hardly corruption. Nothing Trump suggested they do, was illegal.
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Agreeing to investigate another country's president's political rival's son when you have already cleared them, stated any investigation into the country had nothing to do with him, is corrupt.

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roguenuke said:
Agreeing to investigate another country's president's political rival's son when you have already cleared them, stated any investigation into the country had nothing to do with him, is corrupt.

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Cleared? Getting rid of the guy who was investigating Burisma because Biden is threatening to withhold funds, is hardly clearing anyone. It's bowing to extortion.
 
veritas1 said:
Cleared? Getting rid of the guy who was investigating Burisma because Biden is threatening to withhold funds, is hardly clearing anyone. It's bowing to extortion.
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He wasnt investigating Burisma which was one of many reasons he was being called corrupt. He started investigating only after Biden made the threat to his job (which would lead to him being ousted), if at all and it isnt another lie. Even Lutsenko has said the Burisma investigation never involved Hunter Biden. And there us no evidence Shokin was investigating Burisma at the time of Bidens threat and plenty that he wasnt.

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roguenuke said:
He wasnt investigating Burisma which was one of many reasons he was being called corrupt. He started investigating only after Biden made the threat to his job (which would lead to him being ousted), if at all and it isnt another lie. Even Lutsenko has said the Burisma investigation never involved Hunter Biden. And there us no evidence Shokin was investigating Burisma at the time of Bidens threat and plenty that he wasnt.

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Ukraine was just one part of Biden's long record of using his position to enrich himself and his family.
 
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