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Why Americans don't do anything about mass shootings[W:465]

veritas1 said:
Yea, what's the "answer" then? Let's have it.
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My god does it really need to be spelled out.

Effective gun control. We can do that and it can all be constitutional. We have almost everything we need already in parts of the US so it must be constitutional. Now....make it nationwide.
 
veritas1 said:
My "plan" is to have vigilant law enforcement which includes pro-active measures when you have someone like Cruz who obviously should have been taken off the street well in advance. Making schools much more impenetrable is a big part of the answer. We have 100,000 or so public schools. We have 300 million guns. Do the math.
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Arizona looks to have a forward-thinking plan on this. A bill working its way through the state legislation provides a framework that can help identify individuals who maybe be in danger of become a mass shooter early on and holding judicial hearing to determine a course of action. It's getting resistance from the left because it doesn't include their talking point favorite - universal background checks. The far right is also raising 2nd amendment questions.

I think the system as proposed has real potential to reduce shootings. It still puts a lot of burden on the people who report potential shooters; won't be any easier for family members than now, and, I'm not sure how people like teachers, coaches, friends will deal with having to tell parents "I think your son may go rogue".

This is a very thorny problem, I don't think there's any perfect solution.
 
Bullseye said:
Arizona looks to have a forward-thinking plan on this. A bill working its way through the state legislation provides a framework that can help identify individuals who maybe be in danger of become a mass shooter early on and holding judicial hearing to determine a course of action. It's getting resistance from the left because it doesn't include their talking point favorite - universal background checks. The far right is also raising 2nd amendment questions.

I think the system as proposed has real potential to reduce shootings. It still puts a lot of burden on the people who report potential shooters; won't be any easier for family members than now, and, I'm not sure how people like teachers, coaches, friends will deal with having to tell parents "I think your son may go rogue".

This is a very thorny problem, I don't think there's any perfect solution.
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This is a grain of sand on a large beach
 
vegas giants said:
My god does it really need to be spelled out.

Effective gun control. We can do that and it can all be constitutional. We have almost everything we need already in parts of the US so it must be constitutional. Now....make it nationwide.
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What constitutes "effective gun control"? Let's have some specifics. How do you "control" 300 million existing firearms?
 
veritas1 said:
What constitutes "effective gun control"? Let's have some specifics. How do you "control" 300 million existing firearms?
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Registration
licensing of each gun and also for ammo
mandatory training
waiting periods
universal BC's
Doctors report to NCIS
 
vegas giants said:
Registration
licensing of each gun and also for ammo
mandatory training
waiting periods
universal BC's
Doctors report to NCIS
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How do you register guns which you have no record of? How do you make those owners take mandatory training? I have no problem with universal background checks, particularly for people who have had mental health issues. The registration idea is dead in the water. I'm also not sure how mandatory training stops mass shooters. It might simply make them more proficient.
 
veritas1 said:
How do you register guns which you have no record of? How do you make those owners take mandatory training? I have no problem with universal background checks, particularly for people who have had mental health issues. The registration idea is dead in the water. I'm also not sure how mandatory training stops mass shooters. It might simply make them more proficient.
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Says the man who has no plan at all that works anywhere
 
veritas1 said:
How do you register guns which you have no record of? How do you make those owners take mandatory training? I have no problem with universal background checks, particularly for people who have had mental health issues. The registration idea is dead in the water. I'm also not sure how mandatory training stops mass shooters. It might simply make them more proficient.
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Just for clarification We already have almost complete universal background checks, the only exception are some private sales. All sales by federally licensed gun dealer MUST have a background - including the overwhelming number of sales at gun shows and on the internet. Several states have extended the NICS check to private sales at guns shows as well. If there is ANY failure of the current background check system it's the failure of responsible parties and entities to enter applicable data into the system.

Since most mass shootings are planned out, I'm not sure how much a waiting period would help.

California requires completion of a training course for handguns. I agree with you that training is not an effective deterrent to shootings.
 
vegas giants said:
Says the man who has no plan at all that works anywhere
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You're really funny. Other countries don't have 300 million firearms in circulation. You have no plan that will work. Like I said, registration is a non-starter. If you can't see that and the other problems with your so called plan, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
 
Bullseye said:
Just for clarification We already have almost complete universal background checks, the only exception are some private sales. All sales by federally licensed gun dealer MUST have a background - including the overwhelming number of sales at gun shows and on the internet. Several states have extended the NICS check to private sales at guns shows as well. If there is ANY failure of the current background check system it's the failure of responsible parties and entities to enter applicable data into the system.

Since most mass shootings are planned out, I'm not sure how much a waiting period would help.

California requires completion of a training course for handguns. I agree with you that training is not an effective deterrent to shootings.
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I agree. Most of the time background checks fail because data hasn't been entered, as happened in the VA Tech case. Other times, red flags are ignored such as Cruz having been evaluated by a Florida mental health agency in 2016.
 
veritas1 said:
You're really funny. Other countries don't have 300 million firearms in circulation. You have no plan that will work. Like I said, registration is a non-starter. If you can't see that and the other problems with your so called plan, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
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NOTHING is a non starter. We already have registration at the federal level. We just need to expand it. You have nothing to offer the parents of these murdered children but texpanded thoughts and prayers and turning schools into fortresses. It borders on criminal
 
Bullseye said:
Just for clarification We already have almost complete universal background checks, the only exception are some private sales. All sales by federally licensed gun dealer MUST have a background - including the overwhelming number of sales at gun shows and on the internet. Several states have extended the NICS check to private sales at guns shows as well. If there is ANY failure of the current background check system it's the failure of responsible parties and entities to enter applicable data into the system.

Since most mass shootings are planned out, I'm not sure how much a waiting period would help.

California requires completion of a training course for handguns. I agree with you that training is not an effective deterrent to shootings.
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Millions of guns are sold every year without a BC. It is ridiculous and does not happen in other developed countries
 
vegas giants said:
My god the rest of the developed world has figured out how to reduce gun violence. What are we waiting for?
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Perhaps the rest of the world has figured out the deep rooted problem. The problem rest with more than just guns. Perhaps it mental, perhaps something else. I don't know. Right now we have kids and mass killers killing for killing sake. They don't know whom they are killing for the most part, they don't care. Almost all the media attention is on guns, but gas and a matched killed 87 I believe in Brooklyn. Our deadlist school killings was a result of a bomb, dynamite.

I think we need to find out why people are doing these things. We used to call mass shootings going postal. But they knew whom they were killing. Big difference today. Gun control may indeed be part of the solution, but it isn't the answer. Gun control is like having a patient with a brain tumor who has a high fever. We give the patient aspirin (gun control) to cure the fever. The fever goes away, but it will return because the cause, the reason for the fever, the brain tumor hasn't been addressed. It really hasn't been sought or looked for. So we continue to pump aspirin or gun control leaving the reasons, the causes, the root problem in place.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps the rest of the world has figured out the deep rooted problem. The problem rest with more than just guns. Perhaps it mental, perhaps something else. I don't know. Right now we have kids and mass killers killing for killing sake. They don't know whom they are killing for the most part, they don't care. Almost all the media attention is on guns, but gas and a matched killed 87 I believe in Brooklyn. Our deadlist school killings was a result of a bomb, dynamite.

I think we need to find out why people are doing these things. We used to call mass shootings going postal. But they knew whom they were killing. Big difference today. Gun control may indeed be part of the solution, but it isn't the answer. Gun control is like having a patient with a brain tumor who has a high fever. We give the patient aspirin (gun control) to cure the fever. The fever goes away, but it will return because the cause, the reason for the fever, the brain tumor hasn't been addressed. It really hasn't been sought or looked for. So we continue to pump aspirin or gun control leaving the reasons, the causes, the root problem in place.
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The rest of the world HAS figured out the deep rooted problem. It is gun control. No country on earth with low gun deaths has been able to do it without effective gun control. Not a single one. How can people not see this?
 
Bullseye said:
Not even close to true.

Don't care about the "other developed countries" argument.
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Then you don't care about what works. That is just the stone cold truth
 
vegas giants said:
NOTHING is a non starter. We already have registration at the federal level. We just need to expand it. You have nothing to offer the parents of these murdered children but texpanded thoughts and prayers and turning schools into fortresses. It borders on criminal
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No, I operate in the real world where I understand that the average gun owner is not the problem. The problem is the tiny number of nuts who feel compelled to go shoot up schools. BTW, the laws were already in place to stop Cruz and even modestly competent police work would have stopped him way ahead of time as well. You know what would NOT have stopped him? Registration and gun training.
 
vegas giants said:
Now that is hilarious. I needed that. Thanks
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So we have a 5,000$ device that can zoom out of a box and witness the shooter within 10 seconds, and then the controllers can see a gun and innocent people being shot at, so they crash the drone into the shooters head. And you are gonna laugh at it? You obviously dont want solutions.

How about instead of paying Principals 80 grand a year and letting the school play with money how they see fit and paying resource officers 100 grand a year we can just by one 5,000$ drone? It cant be that hard to fly it into the shooters head and save everyones life. Id be willing to sacrifice a 5,000$ drone to save 1 life. I guess not you tho.
 
Nothing is done because it would reduce firearm industry profits. end thread/
 
veritas1 said:
No, I operate in the real world where I understand that the average gun owner is not the problem. The problem is the tiny number of nuts who feel compelled to go shoot up schools. BTW, the laws were already in place to stop Cruz and even modestly competent police work would have stopped him way ahead of time as well. You know what would NOT have stopped him? Registration and gun training.
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Of course it could have. So could a dozen other laws. Your plan works nowhere on earth. Mine works in a dozen different countries
 
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