When white people tan is it a form of "black face"?

[SheWolf]

I didn't know that. But I Googled and found this: "Whitening is meant to be synonymous with glowing, radiant, and luminous, but in English, it doesn’t translate that way. It’s not about your skin color, but about the radiance of your skin." K-beauty Translations: What "Whitening" Means in Korean Beauty

I want this: White Pearlsation Revitalizing Pearl Treatment Toner



–
Soko Glam

I have a lot of friends from Asia, and they are obsessed with lightening their skin. A lot famous Bollywood celebrities get treatments to look whiter. It’s a huge controversy, especially in India

 

[SheWolf]

Truthfully, I've always admired people with darker skin tones, particularly carmel and olive hues. Then again, I'm as pasty white as a snowball and have always thought myself as blonde, bland and unattractive. Even when I was a young woman with a fairly nice figure, I never wore bikinis because I was sure the sun's reflection bouncing off my bleached-out body would blind everyone in the area, lol.

I am sure you always looked good. People with really white and fair skin tend to get sunburns, and they avoid the sun. That means they tend to look better as they age. People who tan frequently age very fast.

 

[SheWolf]

:roll:

I honestly can see his point. If you want an honest discussion about it, then let me know.

 

[Josie]

I honestly can see his point. If you want an honest discussion about it, then let me know.

It’s already known - the OP.

 

[SheWolf]

It’s already known - the OP.

You’re not actually addressing why some minority bloggers were offended and what happened. I looked up the issue with the Paint DAT Face video, and you are not framing the discussion honestly

 

[Josie]

You’re not actually addressing why some minority bloggers were offended and what happened. I looked up the issue with the Paint DAT Face video, and you are not framing the discussion honestly

You have the floor.

 

[Josie]

You’re not actually addressing why some minority bloggers were offended and what happened. I looked up the issue with the Paint DAT Face video, and you are not framing the discussion honestly

You have the floor.

..... were you going to explain and start the discussion or was that it?

 

[SheWolf]

..... were you going to explain and start the discussion or was that it?

I was too busy to post for a few hours.

I read the title and the OP. I read nota's links, and I googled.

Then I read what other people were saying, and what they saying is blackface and not. The Paint Dat Face controversy was easy to understand.

A makeup artist transformed the white woman on the left, to the dark skinned woman on the right. Many were saying it was black face, and just because it looks more glamorous than traditional blackface, it's still blackface. Not only because of the dark make up and contacts, but because of the clothing and headdress. Their POV is that blackface is treating blackness as a costume, and they viewed the artist's use of clothing as a prop and a costume. Therefore, it's not just a white person darkening their skin with tanning and makeup, but it is transforming a woman into another race with makeup and costume clothing.

Being black, they say, is not a costume. Blackface, is a costume.

I found it easy to understand and relate to. For example, I constantly hear minorities of all races complain that politicians use minorities as a props. It happens on the right and the left. The Democratic women on "The Squad" fight with Pelosi and the whole party, because they feel they are often used as props.

I feel it's an legitimate complaint and opinion.

The the complaints I read online, were well reasoned. They seem to be intelligent women, and not all of them are just trolling.

The other woman you posted, looks Asian. Yes, her skin is darker and she looks good, but the photos themselves lack the same controversy as Paint Dat Face.

Because of the way the OP lacks such perspective and what minorities are actually saying about blackface, I can see Pearson's POV saying the thread is to jeer at people complaining about blackface. Some people very easily could see this thread as an attempt to ridicule minority women complaining about blackface, because their perspective isn't be treated seriously or given any recognition.

 

[Josie]

I was too busy to post for a few hours.

I asked because I noticed you were still online the whole time. I thought you were done.

I read the title and the OP. I read nota's links, and I googled.

Then I read what other people were saying, and what they saying is blackface and not. The Paint Dat Face controversy was easy to understand.

A makeup artist transformed the white woman on the left, to the dark skinned woman on the right. Many were saying it was black face, and just because it looks more glamorous than traditional blackface, it's still blackface. Not only because of the dark make up and contacts, but because of the clothing and headdress. Their POV is that blackface is treating blackness as a costume, and they viewed the artist's use of clothing as a prop and a costume. Therefore, it's not just a white person darkening their skin with tanning and makeup, but it is transforming a woman into another race with makeup and costume clothing.

Being black, they say, is not a costume. Blackface, is a costume.

I found it easy to understand and relate to. For example, I constantly hear minorities of all races complain that politicians use minorities as a props. It happens on the right and the left. The Democratic women on "The Squad" fight with Pelosi and the whole party, because they feel they are often used as props.

I feel it's an legitimate complaint and opinion. The the complaints I read online, were well reasoned. They seem to be intelligent women, and not all of them are just trolling.

I understand the aspect of dressing up in "costume" like you're a different race is different than just tanning. But there are people who say the two aren't different at all - it's all blackface. That's what this thread is about -- the people who say that any sort of darkening of your skin is blackface.

The other woman you posted, looks Asian. Yes, her skin is darker and she looks good, but the photos themselves lack the same controversy as Paint Dat Face.

She's always brought up when people talk about this topic.

Because of the way the OP lacks such perspective and what minorities are actually saying about blackface,

It's an open-ended question for everyone to discuss. The perspective and details come from the conversation that ensues after the question is asked.

I can see Pearson's POV saying the thread is to jeer at people complaining about blackface. Some people very easily could see this thread as an attempt to ridicule minority women complaining about blackface, because their perspective isn't be treated seriously or given any recognition.

Why? What about the very simple words in my OP made you think I was ridiculing people? I was asking for a discussion.

 

[SheWolf]

I asked because I noticed you were still online the whole time. I thought you were done.



I understand the aspect of dressing up in "costume" like you're a different race is different than just tanning. But there are people who say the two aren't different at all - it's all blackface. That's what this thread is about -- the people who say that any sort of darkening of your skin is blackface.



She's always brought up when people talk about this topic.



It's an open-ended question for everyone to discuss. The perspective and details come from the conversation that ensues after the question is asked.



Why? What about the very simple words in my OP made you think I was ridiculing people? I was asking for a discussion.

There is an issue with trying to discuss what other people are saying on these blogs, especially when you’re not presenting any of those POVs in the OP. You are just saying, people are calling tanning blackface. At face value, it sounds really overblown. Then when I started googling this issue, I found people are calling Paint Dat Face blackface for more legitimate reasons than you make out.

Based on the photos you posted, they look like two separate issues. Paint Dat Face, I can understand why some don’t approve of it. I don’t know anything about the Asian girl, and what people are saying.

There is little information in your OP about the discussion on blogs, including any explanation why some called it blackface.

The lack of perspective, is why some might see this thread as an attempt to jeer at minorities complaining about blackface or for commenters to do so. Personally, I can understand why blackface is offensive now and history. The opinions of African American women on this is valuable to me, and it’s very relevant for obvious reasons.

 

[Josie]

There is an issue with trying to discuss what other people are saying on these blogs, especially when you’re not presenting any of those POVs in the OP. You are just saying, people are calling tanning blackface. At face value, it sounds really overblown. Then when I started googling this issue, I found people are calling Paint Dat Face blackface for more legitimate reasons than you make out.

Based on the photos you posted, they look like two separate issues. Paint Dat Face, I can understand why some don’t approve of it. I don’t know anything about the Asian girl, and what people are saying.

There is little information in your OP about the discussion on blogs, including any explanation why some called it blackface.

The lack of perspective, is why some might see this thread as an attempt to jeer at minorities complaining about blackface or for commenters to do so. Personally, I can understand why blackface is offensive now and history. The opinions of African American women on this is valuable to me, and it’s very relevant for obvious reasons.

Again, the perspective comes in the discussion. I simply asked the question in the OP to start off the conversation. Blackface is, of course, offensive. The question is --- is tanning and using makeup to make your skin darker a form of blackface as some believe it is? I'm not saying there aren't other opinions about specific influencers (like the second picture). I'm asking the broader question since there are people who believe all of it - no matter if you're using tanning lotions, tanning beds, makeup, adding "costumes" or "props" - it's all blackface to some. That's where the question originated.

I'm asking people's opinions about it, not making fun of those who believe it is. Nothing in my OP implied "jeering" or "ridiculing". That's all in your and Mr. Person's imagination.

 

[joko104]

Sunlight is necessary for Vitamin D. The body can not process calcium without it. There are growing health issues for lack of Vitamin D due to the terror some people have of the sun. But, then, the Democratic Party is the party now of denial of all "facts" and the anti-science and biology political party.

Ethnicity is based upon a person's frame of mind and what ethnicity the person was born to psychologically be. Only bigots and hate mongers would oppose a person pursuing physical and appearance alterations to be who the person was born to be including their sex and race.

 

[SheWolf]

Again, the perspective comes in the discussion. I simply asked the question in the OP to start off the conversation. Blackface is, of course, offensive. The question is --- is tanning and using makeup to make your skin darker a form of blackface as some believe it is? I'm not saying there aren't other opinions about specific influencers (like the second picture). I'm asking the broader question since there are people who believe all of it - no matter if you're using tanning lotions, tanning beds, makeup, adding "costumes" or "props" - it's all blackface to some. That's where the question originated.

I'm asking people's opinions about it, not making fun of those who believe it is. Nothing in my OP implied "jeering" or "ridiculing". That's all in your and Mr. Person's imagination.

You are not posting any context, but you’re trying to tell us to that there are African American women telling white women that using bronzer and any form of tanning is blackface. Again, I read the links, and I googled. I didn’t find any evidence of what you’re saying, but blackface is real. It’s offensive, and your Paint Dat Face imagine is considered blackface for reasons you don't think applies to the discussion you want to have.

Just telling us this discussion exists isn’t enough for me.

 

[d0gbreath]

You are not posting any context, but you’re trying to tell us to that there are African American women telling white women that using bronzer and any form of tanning is blackface. Again, I read the links, and I googled. I didn’t find any evidence of what you’re saying, but blackface is real. It’s offensive, and your Paint Dat Face imagine is considered blackface for reasons you don't think applies to the discussion you want to have.

Just telling us this discussion exists isn’t enough for me.

I agree. It's the "as some believe it is?" part that has no backing whatsoever.

 

[Josie]

You are not posting any context, but you’re trying to tell us to that there are African American women telling white women that using bronzer and any form of tanning is blackface. Again, I read the links, and I googled. I didn’t find any evidence of what you’re saying

If you didn't find any evidence that women are calling out other women for using blackface or "blackfishing" (which is tanning or using makeup to appear like a different race, not just using some bronzer and tanning normally) then you're just being dishonest. It's everywhere. It's in the links that nota provided. It's all over a simple google search. It's all over instagram and YouTube.

This link: Some White Influencers Are Being Accused of "Blackfishing," or Using Makeup to Appear Black | Teen Vogue speaks about a couple of influencers who tan themselves into looking like a different race. It contains the backlash about the first picture in the OP (Emma Hallberg) which you said didn't cause much controversy. It did. She's probably the number one person people think about when they discuss this topic. See the following links:

Here's another one: The New Blackface: Meet the Instagram Models Who Are Pretending to Be WOC | Femestella

And another one: Instagram Teen Emma Hallberg Is Accused Of “Cosplaying” As A Black Woman

And another: cmg�� on Twitter: "Lmao this influencer on Instagram confessed to being fully white on her YouTube video comments and everyone starting attacking her so she’s turned off all the comments on every social account ���� Blackface or nah? #eemmahallberg… https://t.co/BzCxfRUNlI"

but blackface is real. It’s offensive, and your Paint Dat Face imagine is considered blackface for reasons you don't think applies to the discussion you want to have.

I said it was real - I said it was offensive.

And, again, I don't know why I have to keep repeating it --- I'm talking about people who think ALLLLLLLLLLLL darkening of your skin to the point where you look like a different race is blackface. I know there are specific opinions about costumes and such along with darkening your skin and that's a valid discussion as well. I'm talking about the broader question here about EVERYONE who extremely darkens their skin. If you're going to keep bitching that I didn't talk about the specific details of XYZ and then pretending that the topic doesn't even exist, then make your own thread to please yourself. :shrug:

 

[Josie]

I agree. It's the "as some believe it is?" part that has no backing whatsoever.

Except it does.

 

[Josie]

Here's a list of YT videos that come up about the topic:

YouTube

 

[washunut]

This question has been coming up around the beauty community on social media. A lot of people have been calling out "influencers" on Instagram and YouTube and other platforms for changing the color of their skin by using tanning beds or tanning lotions. Is this a form of black face, something harmless or something in between?

View attachment 67269069

View attachment 67269070

Excellent question for the next Democratic presidential debate! Would have a few laughs as Sanders,Warren etc. try to find a way to wander through identity politics and decry angry white males for inventing tanning.

 

[SheWolf]

If you didn't find any evidence that women are calling out other women for using blackface or "blackfishing" (which is tanning or using makeup to appear like a different race, not just using some bronzer and tanning normally) then you're just being dishonest. It's everywhere. It's in the links that nota provided. It's all over a simple google search. It's all over instagram and YouTube.

This link: Some White Influencers Are Being Accused of "Blackfishing," or Using Makeup to Appear Black | Teen Vogue speaks about a couple of influencers who tan themselves into looking like a different race. It contains the backlash about the first picture in the OP (Emma Hallberg) which you said didn't cause much controversy. It did. She's probably the number one person people think about when they discuss this topic. See the following links:

Here's another one: The New Blackface: Meet the Instagram Models Who Are Pretending to Be WOC | Femestella

And another one: Instagram Teen Emma Hallberg Is Accused Of “Cosplaying” As A Black Woman

And another: cmg�� on Twitter: "Lmao this influencer on Instagram confessed to being fully white on her YouTube video comments and everyone starting attacking her so she’s turned off all the comments on every social account ���� Blackface or nah? #eemmahallberg… https://t.co/BzCxfRUNlI"



I said it was real - I said it was offensive.

And, again, I don't know why I have to keep repeating it --- I'm talking about people who think ALLLLLLLLLLLL darkening of your skin to the point where you look like a different race is blackface. I know there are specific opinions about costumes and such along with darkening your skin and that's a valid discussion as well. I'm talking about the broader question here about EVERYONE who extremely darkens their skin. If you're going to keep bitching that I didn't talk about the specific details of XYZ and then pretending that the topic doesn't even exist, then make your own thread to please yourself. :shrug:

So you're claiming that extreme tanning and makeup, to the point of looking like a different race, is considered blackface? That's what this issue boils down to, according to you.

I keep reading the links, googling, and even watched the videos. The more I look into the issue and discussion, the more it looks like you're attempting to simplify the framing. I watched one of those youtube videos in the link you posted, from beginning to end. According the the Nigerian born Youtube star, this isn't an issue of tanning and dark make up. She said that. It's not an issue of racial ambiguity. She also said that. Her issue with many of these Instagram models is that they are capitalizing on "cultural appropriation."

She explained that these models are using make up, tanners, and even tanning injections to look like a different race. They are also wearing braids and cornrows, portraying themselves as non white Instagram models, and they are accepting product endorsements from brands like natural hair products designed for black women.

That's putting minority Instagram models like her in competition with white models, pretending to be black.

Tanning to the point of looking like another race can be subjective. It can even be unintentional. Many people can't help being racially ambiguous because of genetics, but this isn't what the discussion is about. When a white Instagram model is intentionally trying to look like another race, engaging with that ethnic online community, and accepting product endorsements for black women, that's another issue.

Even Emma Hallberg was endorsing a hair extension line marketed to black women.

This, again, is a legitimate issue, and it's more complex than you're making it out to be. These women are not simply just addicted to tanning, and not all tanning addicts are accused of blackface. There are other reasons why these specific women are being criticized.

The way you are trying to simplify the issue, ignore why these exact women are being accused of blackflace, and acting like it is extreme tanning, is one of the reasons why people could easily see this thread as an attempt to laugh at minorities for complaining about blackface.

As for your attitude, you keep you insisting you want a discussion. I am giving you a discussion. I am being respectful, and you're telling me to leave because you don't like the way the discussion is going. No thanks.

 

[Josie]

So you're claiming that extreme tanning and makeup, to the point of looking like a different race, is considered blackface? That's what this issue boils down to, according to you.

No............................................... I'm saying that some people have said it is blackface. I've been saying that this entire thread.

I keep reading the links, googling, and even watched the videos. The more I look into the issue and discussion, the more it looks like you're attempting to simplify the framing. I watched one of those youtube videos in the link you posted, from beginning to end. According the the Nigerian born Youtube star, this isn't an issue of tanning and dark make up. She said that. It's not an issue of racial ambiguity. She also said that. Her issue with many of these Instagram models is that they are capitalizing on "cultural appropriation." She explained that these models are using make up, tanners, and even tanning injections to look like a different race. They are also wearing braids and cornrows, portraying themselves as non white Instagram models, and they are accepting product endorsements from brands like natural hair products designed for black women.

That's putting minority Instagram models like her in competition with white models, pretending to be black.

And what's the reason why you skipped over any article, thread or video that does show people calling it blackface? SheWolf --- read slowly. I'm not saying that "blackface" is the only opinion. I'm saying it's ONE opinion. Why do you only seek out the OTHER opinions to claim that I'm wrong or ridiculing black people? I've already said there are valid differing opinions --- I'm just talking about this ONE OPINION in particular. Jeez Louise.

Tanning to the point of looking like another race can be subjective.

No kidding. Hence, this thread.

It can even be unintentional. Many people can't help being racially ambiguous because of genetics, but this isn't what the discussion is about. When a white Instagram model is intentionally trying to look like another race, engaging with that ethnic online community, and accepting product endorsements for black women, that's another issue.

Even Emma Hallberg was endorsing a hair extension line marketed to black women.

So you finally looked up Emma Hallberg after you said there wasn't much controversy over her photos? Heh. She's literally in every single article or video about this topic.

This, again, is a legitimate issue, and it's more complex than you're making it out to be. These women are not simply just addicted to tanning, and not all tanning addicts are accused of blackface.

I said nothing about addiction so I don't know why you're saying that's what I'm "making it out to be".

There are other reasons why these specific women are being criticized.

The way you are trying to simplify the issue, ignore why these exact women are being accused of blackflace, and acting like it is extreme tanning, is one of the reasons why people could easily see this thread as an attempt to laugh at minorities for complaining about blackface.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself to someone who keeps saying that I'm laughing at minorities. I won't be responding to you again.

 

[SheWolf]

No............................................... I'm saying that some people have said it is blackface. I've been saying that this entire thread.



And what's the reason why you skipped over any article, thread or video that does show people calling it blackface? SheWolf --- read slowly. I'm not saying that "blackface" is the only opinion. I'm saying it's ONE opinion. Why do you only seek out the OTHER opinions to claim that I'm wrong or ridiculing black people? I've already said there are valid differing opinions --- I'm just talking about this ONE OPINION in particular. Jeez Louise.



No kidding. Hence, this thread.



So you finally looked up Emma Hallberg after you said there wasn't much controversy over her photos? Heh. She's literally in every single article or video about this topic.



I said nothing about addiction so I don't know why you're saying that's what I'm "making it out to be".



I'm not going to keep repeating myself to someone who keeps saying that I'm laughing at minorities. I won't be responding to you again.

I think you need to realize that you are not addressing what I am saying.

I said above, people are saying it’s blackface and cultural appropriation, but it’s not simply because of tanning and makeup. It’s because these women are making money on clothing lines and beauty products marketed to black women, and they are doing it while presenting themselves as a member of that race.

Also, I never said you’re laughing at minorities for complaining, but I said your thread could be seen that way. I started this conversation with you to explain the other posters comments, and that is still my intention in this discussion

Many people see this as legit blackface and cultural appropriation for reasons explained. It doesn’t appear to be an issue of over tanning and non intended racial ambiguity resulting.

 

[Carleen]

Let’s start with Trump’s attempt to tan his face. Why? (I’ll add it is a poor attempt)

 

[d0gbreath]

Except it does.

Well, they're wrong. Applying blackface always ends in washing it off. These super tanners intend to maintain their new hue, which is not the same thing.

 

[Josie]

Apparently they sell actual skin bleaching products on amazon.

Fight Against Colorism Takes On Amazon: Beauty ‘Cannot Be One Skin Color’ - The New York Times

 

[Manc Skipper]

No, it's not blackface, it's a low-level radiation burn.