What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

[sawyerloggingon]

LOL. that is all

So you have filled it with cynicism, that is common.

 

[Ontologuy]

What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

The "I am" experience.

 

[marduc]

So you have filled it with cynicism, that is common.

You are confusing my skepticism with cynicism.

You are free to pray for me though

 

[sawyerloggingon]

You are confusing my skepticism with cynicism.

You are free to pray for me though

I am more into to each his own, I'll worry about my soul, yours is your business.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Most religions are called faith. If faith in god helps one to become a better person, I have no problem with it. I do not think anyone else should either. There are enough evil and bad people in this world, we do not need to take something away from someone that helps them lead a good life.

So if it helps someone lead a good life, you're okay with it?

 

[lizzie]

So if it helps someone lead a good life, you're okay with it?

Although your question is not directed toward me, yes, I'm perfectly okay with it. You have no more proof that there is no God, than I have proof that there is. What it amounts to is that you believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. If I am doing you no harm, then what's your issue with my belief system?

 

[Perotista]

So if it helps someone lead a good life, you're okay with it?

Sure I am. It doesn't bother me if someone believes in an almighty god or a pet rock. If that believe or faith helps him to be a better person I can't find a single thing wrong with it.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Although your question is not directed toward me, yes, I'm perfectly okay with it. You have no more proof that there is no God, than I have proof that there is. What it amounts to is that you believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. If I am doing you no harm, then what's your issue with my belief system?

There in lies what I'm getting in. You're creating special circumstances. You're saying "do what you want as long as it doesn't negatively affect me." Why not just say "do what you want." Who's to say what leading a "good" life is? Although I don't have proof (mathematics or philosophy?) "god" doesn't exist, there is evidence (not proof dumby :roll: ) that the Biblical "god" is highly unlikely and has a lack of evidence in the time (so far) of our greatest scientific discoveries. Tell me again why belief systems deserve respect? I acknowledge you believe it, that doesn't mean I must respect and certainly doesn't mean it's free from my criticism.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Sure I am. It doesn't bother me if someone believes in an almighty god or a pet rock. If that believe or faith helps him to be a better person I can't find a single thing wrong with it.

Define "better person." Is it to their standard, your standard, or a societal standard?

 

[Perotista]

Define "better person." Is it to their standard, your standard, or a societal standard?

I would say over all.

 

[Manc Skipper]

We are designed with a hole wear God is supposed to go and nature abhors a vacuum. You have filled that hole with something, ask yourself what.

No design necessary, we are evolved. Gods were once an evolutionary advantage, but like the appendix, unnecessary for a full life. They can still make you die though!

 

[zgoldsmith23]

I would say over all.

Over all? Elaborate.

 

[Cyrylek]

No design necessary, we are evolved. Gods were once an evolutionary advantage, but like the appendix, unnecessary for a full life. They can still make you die though!

That's a bit outdated. The appendix was shown to have important functions as a lymphoid organ, especially in children.

Gods may still provide an "evolutionary advantage".

People who lose faith do not all decorate themselves with bow ties and begin quoting Voltaire and Condorcet, while doing chemical and biological experiments.

Many of them start believing instead in some incredible crap, and build guillotines, gulags and statues of Dear Leaders.

(Marquis de Condorcet had died in a Jacobin prison, had he not? About the same time a certain Catholic named Lavoisier was guillotined)

I am quite comfortable as an atheist, but...you know...easy on surgeries, be it about appendices or religions - we cannot foresee everything.

 

[Northern Light]

I don't personally believe that the human experience can all be summed up in the brain, but I do find the stories surrounding the God Helmet kind of interesting. Scientists took Koren's idea and applied strong magnetic resonance to certain areas of the brain in order to temporarily denature individual ego. In people who had no developed spirituality or belief in a higher power, disrupting their sense of self resulted in complete and utter panic and terror. In people who had the spiritual centers developed, the disabled "egoic" portion deferred to the spiritually activated part, and they had a sense of oneness and being cared for by something greater than themselves.

I believe from a biological point of view, our deference to a higher power is to help fortify us against traumatic events, and is a projection tool to help us feel cared for during periods of feeling barren or neglected. Humans can project whatever they want really, and from a survival perspective projecting an all-caring deity makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately, this projection tool can also be used to defer responsibility. Instead of projecting opinions from selfhood, people are projecting it from the spiritual center which creates the delusional notion that they are speaking for God when really they are speaking from a non-specific portion of their own consciousness.

 

[celticwar17]

We are rational.

 

[ChezC3]

Let's go back in time to the day when mankind first became capable of reason. I cannot help but believe hunger, dispair, fear and ignorance of the surroundings naturally made man look to a God like idea in order to ease the suffering. Why doesn't man simply say, "life sucks but it's all we got". Instead he says, "oh no, this life isn't the one that's really important, it's the life after this one that gonna count"! He creates symbols them calls them God of water, God of light, God of food, etc. He is basically at a loss about how to express his "idea" until...... a person comes along with the gift of gab. Then and only then do folks listen and follow. They follow not so much for the substance of what is being said rather for a sense of hope the speaker tells them about. People with hope are naturally happier than folks with none therefore this idea grows. Who wants to be with a depressed person?! Then there is the good feeling bonding with others gives us so that too perpetuates this thing until there are millions world wide willing to die and kill to keep this thing in motion. I wonder from time to time how many Gods has man created throughout history. Some have come and gone while others remain.

Using reason, nothing suggests that hunger, fear, dispair, or ignorance would conjure any sort of God-type in the human psyche.

 

[lizzie]

There in lies what I'm getting in. You're creating special circumstances. You're saying "do what you want as long as it doesn't negatively affect me." Why not just say "do what you want." Who's to say what leading a "good" life is?

It's not creating special circumstances to adhere to the principle of freedom of movement and expression. I don't really care what someone's definition of leading a good life is, but I'd say it's probably a pretty universal standard that leading a good life is abstaining from causing another individual harm.

 

[grip]

I wasn't aware a definition was evidence. Hmm. I guess unicorns, leprechauns, and "gods" all exist, then.

How dense can you be, are you serious? Hope doesn't require evidence that's why it's called "hope". It's an expectation of something yet to be seen.

I don't put my hope in unicorns or leprechauns.


Let me explain the difference between my hope and your expectation. We both believe that we'll most likely either die relatively quickly (less chance) or grow old slowly, watching our health and vigor deteriorate. Which by the way last much longer than the youth you're currently enjoying. And then we go through the last stages usually lasting a couple weeks of suffering and knowing that we're dying, which is terrifying.

After that you think you'll just cease to exist, permanent sleep. I hope that we'll wake up in a place so good that you literally can't believe it. No judgment or punishment or bowing before anyone. Just pure joy, peace and doing-having whatever you want forever, never getting bored or feeling miserable, unhappy, pain, fear, sorrow again. And being with all your loved ones in a perfect body. Now is that really such a horrible thing to hope for? Let's even say I'm completely wrong and you're right, permanent sleep. Bet my hope makes me feel better in the mean time than your expectation.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

It's not creating special circumstances to adhere to the principle of freedom of movement and expression. I don't really care what someone's definition of leading a good life is, but I'd say it's probably a pretty universal standard that leading a good life is abstaining from causing another individual harm.

You're granting selective freedom. Leading a good life is abstaining from causing another individual harm? I'd bet you'd say all bets were off is someone else caused an individual harm, then it's fair to cause them harm, no? Would that not be hypocrisy?

How dense can you be, are you serious? Hope doesn't require evidence that's why it's called "hope". It's an expectation of something yet to be seen.

I don't put my hope in unicorns or leprechauns.

Why not? You might want to.

Let me explain the difference between my hope and your expectation. We both believe that we'll most likely either die relatively quickly (less chance) or grow old slowly, watching our health and vigor deteriorate. Which by the way last much longer than the youth you're currently enjoying. And then we go through the last stages usually lasting a couple weeks of suffering and knowing that we're dying, which is terrifying.

I don't "believe" I'll die, I know I'll die, as do you. Death isn't terrifying and it's naive to believe otherwise.

After that you think you'll just cease to exist, permanent sleep. I hope that we'll wake up in a place so good that you literally can't believe it. No judgment or punishment or bowing before anyone. Just pure joy, peace and doing-having whatever you want forever, never getting bored or feeling miserable, unhappy, pain, fear, sorrow again. And being with all your loved ones in a perfect body. Now is that really such a horrible thing to hope for? Let's even say I'm completely wrong and you're right, permanent sleep. Bet my hope makes me feel better in the mean time than your expectation.

You'd be surprised. My expectation certainly doesn't have a negative value in my life, in fact - it probably has a positive value. That certainly doesn't give you any high ground and makes you extraordinarily selfish for wishing for a better life after this one. If you use it as motivation to bow to what society's deem as "good" then that just adds to your level of selfishness as you're acting that way for others for personal gain. Again, your positing imagination in to reality. I also note your measly emotional appeal.

 

[Perotista]

Over all? Elaborate.

All I am saying is that those of faith tend to do more for society on their own, they time, their energy and money than those without faith who would just as soon send someone down to the nearest federal office. I have seen some pretty rough characters who picked up the faith and change their life styles from on of causing trouble everywhere to one of being a helpful citizen.

I would always keep an eye out for religious zealots, but they tend not to follow the teaching of their religion or faith, they are just interested in obtaining converts one way or the other. These type, I dismiss.

 

[grip]

I don't "believe" I'll die, I know I'll die, as do you. Death isn't terrifying and it's naive to believe otherwise.

You don't "know" no such thing, you've never died before. I've seen death many times and it's absolutely terrifying. Go spend two weeks, day in and out with someone in a hospice situation, suffering, until they perish and tell me that again. I'm naive? Hah, you're the epitome of it.

I'd be surprised. My expectation certainly doesn't have a negative value in my life, in fact - it probably has a positive value. That certainly doesn't give you any high ground and makes you extraordinarily selfish for wishing for a better life after this one. If you use it as motivation to bow to what society's deem as "good" then that just adds to your level of selfishness as you're acting that way for others for personal gain. Again, your positing imagination in to reality. I also note your measly emotional appeal.

I wish for a better life in this and the next world and not to is kind of dumb. Go give away all your possessions and walk the talk. No? I thought so. There's enough good to go round whether if it's in substance or character. You just don't know what good is yet.

I hate to tell you this but emotions and imagination are a part of reality, unless you're a robot.

 

[Knowledge=power]

After that you think you'll just cease to exist, permanent sleep. I hope that we'll wake up in a place so good that you literally can't believe it. No judgment or punishment or bowing before anyone. Just pure joy, peace and doing-having whatever you want forever, never getting bored or feeling miserable, unhappy, pain, fear, sorrow again. And being with all your loved ones in a perfect body. Now is that really such a horrible thing to hope for? Let's even say I'm completely wrong and you're right, permanent sleep. Bet my hope makes me feel better in the mean time than your expectation.

1. Wouldn't you have to bow before God? or Jesus?

2. Would it be ok with God if I wanted drugs and women?

3. You wouldn't know the difference anyway if you were permanently asleep.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

All I am saying is that those of faith tend to do more for society on their own, they time, their energy and money than those without faith who would just as soon send someone down to the nearest federal office. I have seen some pretty rough characters who picked up the faith and change their life styles from on of causing trouble everywhere to one of being a helpful citizen.

Wrong. Let's also not forget the selfishness behind the religious motivation in their reward "afterlife."

 

[zgoldsmith23]

You don't "know" no such thing, you've never died before. I've seen death many times and it's absolutely terrifying. Go spend two weeks, day in and out with someone in a hospice situation, suffering, until they perish and tell me that again. I'm naive? Hah, you're the epitome of it.

Everyone dies. It's a certainty in life. To live is to die and to die is to have lived. I've seen death many times and been around dying people and how is it terrifying?

I wish for a better life in this and the next world and not to is kind of dumb. Go give away all your possessions and walk the talk. No? I thought so. There's enough good to go round whether if it's in substance or character. You just don't know what good is yet.

"Good" is subjective. Why would I give all of my possessions away? They're mine.

I hate to tell you this but emotions and imagination are a part of reality, unless you're a robot.

You can attempt to negate all emotion and embrace reason, logic, and empiricism. That doesn't require "robot-esque" qualities.

 

[grip]

1. Wouldn't you have to bow before God? or Jesus?

2. Would it be ok with God if I wanted drugs and women?

3. You wouldn't know the difference anyway if you were permanently asleep.

1. Jesus said to those who overcome I will allow to sit with me on my fathers throne and rule. He didn't say I'd force you to kneel too me. God said to me every knee shall bow but he didn't say in heaven. I think your death is the bowed knee.

2. If you're already in the ultimate physical pleasure I think anything else would be trading down.

3. I agree, so in the mean time I'll have hope.