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What 'gay pride' is, and how it is manifested in the gay pride march.

Pretty sure you know why heterosexual couples typically don't parade down streets with floats. Heterosexuals have not had to have an adverse amount of discrimination by society at large. LGBT have, and continue to this day. It wasn't that long ago, where you'd be hard pressed to find any LGBT parade with widespread support. Societal and historical context is extemely important.

We don't live in a vacuum.



Yeah, that is stupid, but that's the kind of stuff that homophobic people get mad about all the time. Menial stuff that they also do, but they find disgusting when it comes to us, because we're in same-sex relationships. But heterosexual people are just as expressive with their own sexuality, as we are with ours. It's hypocritical, and shows an intrinsic bias towards LGBT people. That's where this "Don't Shove It Down My Throat" mantra comes from.

You know that I am not homophobic... but you and teh other guy have to be fair... everything is not, and can not, be black and white. If you don't like Gay Pride (or in my case I said any kind of Pride Parade) it does not make you homophobic, or anti-gay, or whatever that other guy accused me of being "one of those people". Hell, some people may not like certain parades or whatever, for economic reasons.
 
You know that I am not homophobic... but you and teh other guy have to be fair... everything is not, and can not, be black and white. If you don't like Gay Pride (or in my case I said any kind of Pride Parade) it does not make you homophobic, or anti-gay, or whatever that other guy accused me of being "one of those people". Hell, some people may not like certain parades or whatever, for economic reasons.

You don't have to like gay pride parades, or even like parades in general. but let's not pretend like they are on any equivalence with a "straight" pride parade. Like I said, historical context is important.
 
You don't have to like gay pride parades, or even like parades in general. but let's not pretend like they are on any equivalence with a "straight" pride parade. Like I said, historical context is important.

I never implied that they were equivalent... but they are becoming more and more so as well...
 
I never implied that they were equivalent... but they are becoming more and more so as well...

Why are conservatives so outraged by a pride event? Are you equally outraged by St Patrick's Day, Thanksgiving or Columbus day parades? Do you protest at the Feast of the Assumption festivals in Little Italy?
Maybe you can organize MADD to protest at the Octoberfest.

I was to one Pride Parade in my life and I thought it was kind of boring.
 
Your first five words say all I need to know about you.... you Judge people. :shrug:



Gay people do this too... at least in the areas that I lived. Just north of San Fran and close to Laguna down south. And this is also not what I was talking about... people living a normal life... and FFS, I also talked about other types of parades...



Nope... in fact a super gay friend of mine was in a Geico commercial last year... it was great to see... but you live in anger and fear about all those heterosexuals agree that people should be dancing in the street simply due to their sexuality or gender.
Lol. A lot of distinctions, gathered into a search party, looking for a fundamental difference worth trekking in the mud and brambles for.


yes I judge people who apply double standards to justify silencing a minority... every single time.

When gay people come out about their orientation, they avail themselves of the same right to openly discuss and show their romantic sexual and legal relationships is exactly the same way straights have been doing forever. Its not more offensive to your sensitive soul to hear someone announce, 'I am gay. Deal with it' to any and all, and then show it and celebrate it, through their their partnerships and their sexuality, than it is for straights to show they are straight without said annoucement and still show it, and celebrate their partnerships and their sexuality. 'Coming out' gay or straight, is part of normal life, and living it. Its nothing but a game of 'show and tell. Straights do it a lot slower and incrementally than gays do because they really don't have to do it at all, thanks to that 85% stat.

As for dancing and celebrating in streets , Why does it matter whether the reason is about sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion or just having a good time! Lets see if we can see this disruptive and disgusting behavior elsewhere in 'straightland' . There is Mardi Gras, St Patrick's day in Dublin and New York, Pamplona Spain, Octoberfest Munich, The Carnival in Venice, La Tomatina in Bunol, The Carnival in Rio de Janero, Durga Puja in India, Burning Man Festival in Nevada, The Holi in India. Here we see straights engaging in public dancing, revelry, lude and/or nude behavior, drunkenness, drug use, even orchestrated animal abuse or animal sacrifice. heck I once read that a certain David was a street dancer in his wild days (2 Samuel 6: 14-16 ,1 Chronicles 15:29) I'll bet he never even filed for a permit!
 
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Your comments would be so much more impactful if your 'pride' parades didnt involve a bunch of clowns dancing around in assless chaps with dildoes glued to their foreheads. Sorry...there is pride...and then there is whatever the **** it is you think you are doing during your parades that indicate 'pride'. Its really hard to take any of you seriously after that.

It gets your attention by inciting the right wing of American politics.
 
It gets your attention by inciting the right wing of American politics.
By proving them right about every negative stereotype about your community.

****ing brilliant. That showed em.
 
By proving them right about every negative stereotype about your community.

****ing brilliant. That showed em.

How is the right-wing being incited because LGBTQ perople exist openly? Should LGBT people live in the shadows so bigots aren't required to learn to deal with people different from themselves? What is it about LGBT that is a problem for conservatives?
 
By proving them right about every negative stereotype about your community.

****ing brilliant. That showed em.

By advertising their existence and making homophobes aware that they exist and force those on the right wing of American politics to deal with that fact.

Nobody CARES what you think.
 
Lol. A lot of distinctions, gathered into a search party, looking for a fundamental difference worth trekking in the mud and brambles for.

Balderdash...

yes I judge people who apply double standards to justify silencing a minority... every single time.

Good. The next question is why are you talking to me about this?

When gay people come out about their orientation, they avail themselves of the same right to openly discuss and show their romantic sexual and legal relationships is exactly the same way straights have been doing forever.

Good...

Its not more offensive to your sensitive soul to hear someone announce, 'I am gay. Deal with it'

I just told you that I have been around and know gay people... so it appears that your Judgmental Nature is driven by blinding anger and lack of reading comprehension.

to any and all, and then show it and celebrate it, through their their partnerships and their sexuality, than it is for straights to show they are straight without said annoucement and still show it, and celebrate their partnerships and their sexuality.

I don't have any idea what any of this means... do you mean Weddings or going on dates, or something?

'Coming out' gay or straight, is part of normal life, and living it.

Pretty basic... anything more?

Its nothing but a game of 'show and tell. Straights do it a lot slower and incrementally than gays do because they really don't have to do it at all,

Nobody has to come out... heterosexuals don't come out... nobody needs to anymore, in most of the Western World, at least. Nobody comes out for their religion or race either... Jews are one of the most oppressed groups in history... I don't see them parading.

thanks to that 85% stat.

85% stat?

As for dancing and celebrating in streets , Why does it matter whether the reason is about sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion or just having a good time! Lets see if we can see this disruptive and disgusting behavior elsewhere in 'straightland' .

Look at your stupid ****... "straightland"... get a grip... and you are the one adding disruptive and disgusting... you are the one with the hatred.

There is Mardi Gras, St Patrick's day in Dublin and New York, Pamplona Spain, Octoberfest Munich, The Carnival in Venice, La Tomatina in Bunol, The Carnival in Rio de Janero, Durga Puja in India, Burning Man Festival in Nevada, The Holi in India. Here we see straights engaging in public dancing, revelry, lude and/or nude behavior, drunkenness, drug use,

Those are just parties... events... nothing about any of them is about sexuality, gender, race, religion... just having fun.

even orchestrated animal abuse or animal sacrifice.

That is unacceptable...

heck I once read that a certain David was a street dancer in his wild days (2 Samuel 6: 14-16 ,1 Chronicles 15:29) I'll bet he never even filed for a permit!

The Bible is stupid and David should have received a court date and fine for that...
 
I am not a conservative...

Why is it that so many conservatives or, ahem Liberarians, won't declare what their beliefs are? I wonder why that might be?
 
Why is it that so many conservatives or, ahem Liberarians, won't declare what their beliefs are? I wonder why that might be?

Do you mean Librarians?
 
We do not feel pride in' being gay' or in our sexuality at all. Gay pride is about the personal coming out process and how we handled those challenges.

We feel personal and collective pride in how we responded to the social pressure, the stigma, the systemic efforts to shame and control us by the majority throughout decades and centuries of repression....

"Gay pride", like every other kind of "pride" movement is a single issue identity movement directed at the public-at-large. It's not a fraternal, social, or private group or club; it is an totalizing public identity movement based on an endless need for attention and overt validation from the public - a need to demonstrate "righteous" pride over one's mating habits with others of similar gonads.

Although gay lifestyles have become socially acceptable and routine, and in some metrosexual circles faddish, the need for 'Victory dancing' persists even for the youngest generation. Unlike pro-life or anti-war demonstrations, it must continue regardless of whether or not the 'war' over an issue is won because it is not about political issues or perceived injustices but about identity validation - a need for overt social approval.

Identity affirmation 'as a particular group' is oddly contradictory. On one hand it asserts itself as being "normal" and "socially unremarkable" - expecting to be treated as an member of society like any other. On the other hand, it doesn't really wish to be assimilated into the typical or un-remarkable because its "pride" is in its 'sub-culture', in its shared collective behavior and associations. In other words, many identity groups need perceived oppression in order to not lose their sense of uniqueness and validation as victims, long after the significant battles are won.

None the less, sex based identity politics will never disappear until such time as the insecure identity group truly looks upon itself as "normal"; until then, they demand active approval of the larger society for reassurance that they are normal, if only because somewhere buried in their sub-conscious they know they are not and perhaps never can be.
 
Nobody has to come out... heterosexuals don't come out... nobody needs to anymore, in most of the Western World, at least.
Heteros don't come out because people are assumed to be hetero unless we say something otherwise. That should change and people stop assuming that everyone is hetero or CIS.

Did you ever consider the fact that gays and lesbians are tired of living in the closet and everyone assuimg that they are heterosexual? Coming out is often a political statement so people know that there are others around them who are gay/bi/les.

Trans people do have to come out when they begin to change. It's kind of obvious. Many are assaulted because of it.
.
 
Libertarians are silly.

Oh... so you asked me about Conservatives... I am not one... now you are asking me about Libertarians... and I am not one of those either.

Is this going to get worse from here?

Did you ever consider the fact that gays and lesbians are tired of living in the closet and everyone assuimg that they are heterosexual? Coming out is often a political statement so people know that there are others around them who are gay/bi/les.

Trans people do have to come out when they begin to change. It's kind of obvious. Many are assaulted because of it.
.

Why are you asking me about any of this?
 
That would be because of your reply in #111.
 
Balderdash...



Good. The next question is why are you talking to me about this?



Good...



I just told you that I have been around and know gay people... so it appears that your Judgmental Nature is driven by blinding anger and lack of reading comprehension. So did Roy Cohen. You are going to have to do better than 'some- of- my- best- friends...' without the best friends part.



I don't have any idea what any of this means... do you mean Weddings or going on dates, or something? I don't know how much harder I have to try. If you can't grasp this, then you can't!



Pretty basic... anything more?



Nobody has to come out... heterosexuals don't come out... nobody needs to anymore, in most of the Western World, at least. Nobody comes out for their religion or race either... Jews are one of the most oppressed groups in history... I don't see them parading. Wow. Lets see if you can figure out the fundamental difference between Jews and Gays or Lesbians as minority groups and see if any might be relevant to a 'coming out' process and yes gays do still 'come out' in all western societies. I can only educate so much



85% stat? I picked a more liberal number for you benefit, because different studies suggest anything from 5-15% depending on definitions . An overwhelming majority are straight so it is the social, and cultural default presumption.


Look at your stupid ****... "straightland"... get a grip... and you are the one adding disruptive and disgusting... you are the one with the hatred. Lol the reference to 'straightland' offends you? Relax . I don't mind living in Straightland. As I use it, it describes a planet full of large geopolitical areas where straights are the vast majority . 'Queerland' is really about some districts in some big cities and the odd beach here and there. I feel pretty very comfortable in Straightland', and I hope you get a warm welcome if you happen into Queerland.



Those are just parties... events... nothing about any of them is about sexuality, gender, race, religion... just having fun. So what difference does it make whether the party/ excuse is about sexuality, ethnicity, religion or just having fun? Here we see a percentage of straights engaging in or watching public dancing, revelry, lude and/or nude behavior, drunkenness, drug use, even orchestrated animal abuse or animal sacrifice as part of traditional behaviors, and it is hardly a compendium of them all.



That is unacceptable... here we agree.



The Bible is stupid and David should have received a court date and fine for that... here we agree.
See above.
 
See above.

It is tough to go point by point when you don't break it up...

- Straightland does not offend me... it is just a stupid phrase to use.
- Queerland is also a stupid term...
- I don't know who Roy Cohen is and I never said "best friends"
- I am not talking about a coming out process... I am talking about publicly disclosing who you are to strangers just because...
- They are all minority groups,... that was the point
- The percentage of gay people in the USA is closer to 95%... not 85%
- I don't care about drinking etc in public for parades... it is the reason for the parade... a Pride parade is a needy parade.

I think that I got all the points.
 
That would be because of your reply in #111.

You need to quote a person for them to truly know you responded... I just happened to see this while scrolling.

Living in a closet has nothing to do with needing a Pride Parade... that is why I asked you why you were asking me about this... because I have no commented on that at all.
 
maxparrish
#1. No. Gay pride is not a 'single issue identity movement' when it involves systemic pervasive and historic discrimination throughout a society because identity movements of that sort of social, legal and cultural reform involve a hell of a lot more than a 'single issue'. You need a LOT of education on what' coming out' entails. before you can understand where the gay pride originates and what it turns into. It starts as a very small seed with just enough exposure the right combination of time and circumstance to grow past the shame, fear and some bad starts, to reach a potentially positive experience. A couple of those and you have the beginnings of that 'private membership club' that is fed by gay pride and feeds gay pride, and then it turns into a 'social group' including more family, more friends, maybe some co-workers. There is no one 'coming out' moment . Its a series of 'coming outs; that just keep on happening throughout our lives. We may choose to do it each time we move, or change jobs or find a new social circle or circumstances may 'out' us before we decide.

The 'public' are all those people, who we did not personally know and not consciously decide to inform on our own directly. Whether we put a note on our front door, or used Facebook, or walked in the public streets holding our lovers hand, or kissed in the park, danced with our boyfriend at prom, or chose to accept the risk of arrest for protesting at Stonewall, or walked in a pride march, we publicly 'came out' by exposing ourselves to a fickle public opinion and governmental reaction.

#2 You are comparing a political protest movement over a constitutional decision like Roe, or one that demands a stop to bombs in Vietnam and a suit for peace process, with a movement that involves deep social , religious and cultural roots in bigotry and discrimination on every personal social and political level over hundreds of years. I think we have a little more work to do here, and that requires a little more vigilance than the some admittedly important victories over a couple of decades. Those 'victory dances' today, are part of that social pressure that wards off complacency and backsliding under the opposite pressures by conservative and religious leaders to undo those successes which still exist

#3 Here I will cede your larger point even if I would word it differently. There is an inevitable and ironic tension in any major social or legal reform movement looking for ways to seem relevant and maintain a subcultural identity, and still push forward towards its own irrelevance. Its a little like parents who's success is mostly measured, by not being needed anymore, still wanting to feel like parents.

#4 Politics is by definition about identities and groups who's labels and unifying natures change. It was that way before Christ, in the Middle Ages, in the Reformation, in the Enlightenment, in the industrial age, and thereafter. Groups that were insecure, usually had one hell of a reason to be. Those that felt they were seen as outside the norms of society, were taught that they were, by other groups who dominated them. Such biases and insecurities will always be internalized as part of the socialization process within a systemically marginalized and stereotyped minority group under the tutelage of the majority. That's how this control thing goes. The fact that you feel some need to isolate sexual identity groups from all the rest throughout history, tells me more about your particular bias, than history
,
 
It is tough to go point by point when you don't break it up...

- Straightland does not offend me... it is just a stupid phrase to use.
- Queerland is also a stupid term...
- I don't know who Roy Cohen is and I never said "best friends"
- I am not talking about a coming out process... I am talking about publicly disclosing who you are to strangers just because...
- They are all minority groups,... that was the point
- The percentage of gay people in the USA is closer to 95%... not 85%
- I don't care about drinking etc in public for parades... it is the reason for the parade... a Pride parade is a needy parade.

I think that I got all the points.
You did not get them very well.
1. You used the word 'disgusting' sound like offense to me.
2. You somehow think referencing your acquaintances who are gay, warrants a lot more than it does. Every bigot and homophobe in the world, including Roy Cohen, has had acquaintances and most like to claim some authority or reassurance thereby. It does neither, even if they were 'some of your very best friends' Got it?
3. Whether it is strangers or family or friends or workers or neighbors, or the government, or media, or other gays or straights in a bar, its all the same 'coming out' process. Both straights and open gays do it constantly in their lives either through what they say or what they do, from their first date, to their deathbed. Anything that they do to suggest which gender they love romantically, or who they lust after to a third party is part of coming out. There is no difference between a straight couple putting their engagement notice in the local paper in 1960, or being photographed kissing and hugging as he comes home from WW2 for a Time Magazine cover, and a gay couple wearing a pride flag tea shirt and kissing in a facebook post in 2018. Its a celebration of romantic or sexual love in a very very public way. You just don't like it when 'the gays' do it.
4. I chose to be generous in my stat rather than quibble with a figure, but mine a lot closer to truth than yours. Reread your sentence


5. All parades, parties, and demostrations that based on identity, purpose or tradition with some drunkenness, drug use, lude behavior, loud and boisterousness, dancing and urination in the streets, littering, nudity, etc are equally 'needy' or not.
 
You did not get them very well.
1. You used the word 'disgusting' sound like offense to me.
2. You somehow think referencing your acquaintances who are gay, warrants a lot more than it does. Every bigot and homophobe in the world, including Roy Cohen, has had acquaintances and most like to claim some authority or reassurance thereby. It does neither, even if they were 'some of your very best friends' Got it?
3. Whether it is strangers or family or friends or workers or neighbors, or the government, or media, or other gays or straights in a bar, its all the same 'coming out' process. Both straights and open gays do it constantly in their lives either through what they say or what they do, from their first date, to their deathbed. Anything that they do to suggest which gender they love romantically, or who they lust after to a third party is part of coming out. There is no difference between a straight couple putting their engagement notice in the local paper in 1960, or being photographed kissing and hugging as he comes home from WW2 for a Time Magazine cover, and a gay couple wearing a pride flag tea shirt and kissing in a facebook post in 2018. Its a celebration of romantic or sexual love in a very very public way. You just don't like it when 'the gays' do it.
4. I chose to be generous in my stat rather than quibble with a figure, but mine a lot closer to truth than yours. Reread your sentence


5. All parades, parties, and demostrations that based on identity, purpose or tradition with some drunkenness, drug use, lude behavior, loud and boisterousness, dancing and urination in the streets, littering, nudity, etc are equally 'needy' or not.

The Williams Institute

No... it is much closer to 95%, actually.

I did not use the term "disgusting". At least not that I can find or that would be used about homosexuals or gay pride parades...

If you are going to lie then I don't have much else to say to you... :shrug:
 
Objectively, one who would do those things would have anything but pride.

Your comments would be so much more impactful if your 'pride' parades didnt involve a bunch of clowns dancing around in assless chaps with dildoes glued to their foreheads. Sorry...there is pride...and then there is whatever the **** it is you think you are doing during your parades that indicate 'pride'. Its really hard to take any of you seriously after that.
 
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