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We Already Know There Was Collusion

uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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So.... some of ya'll are still stuck in the Denial Phase, eh?
 
SCrider said:
No one yet. Just because there have not been any charges does not mean it did not happen.
It will be interesting to see the 3 dozen indictments that are sealed to be released.
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Ii didn't happen. If Mueller didn't charge anyone, it's because was zero evidence of any illegal activity between Russia and the Trump Campaign.

Mueller was out for blood. If he had the slightest evidence of such activity, he would have charged someone.

President Trump is on deck to being the cleanest president in modern history, maybe even in United States history. No other president has ever been placed under the microscope like he has. I doubt any other president could have made it this far.
 
uptower said:
Manafort for starters. 'Collusion' itself is not a charge, it's a catch-all for a series of crimes, many of which campaign associates have indeed been charged with. It's in the article.
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List them, please?
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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You can prove you're not a clown by showing any Mueller indictments for collusion.
 
uptower said:
"Even if Mueller’s final report does not implicate the president in criminal conduct, the investigation was far from fruitless. His team brought charges against 34 people, including six Trump associates, and three companies. His prosecutors revealed a sweeping criminal effort by Russians to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and showed that people connected to the Trump campaign were eager to exploit emails stolen from Democrats."

Trump intensifies effort to discredit Mueller report as Russia inquiry nears end | US news | The Guardian
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Once again, please show a single indictment of Trump or anyone he's associated with who colluded with Russia to change the election.
 
Now that the investigation is over and collusion wasn't proven, its time to move the goalposts on what collusion means to continue the lie that collusion occurred.

That is all this thread and the OP is about.
 
apdst said:
Ii didn't happen. If Mueller didn't charge anyone, it's because was zero evidence of any illegal activity between Russia and the Trump Campaign.

Mueller was out for blood. If he had the slightest evidence of such activity, he would have charged someone.

President Trump is on deck to being the cleanest president in modern history, maybe even in United States history. No other president has ever been placed under the microscope like he has. I doubt any other president could have made it this far.
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"Mueller was out for blood. If he had the slightest evidence of such activity, he would have charged someone."

Indeed. IN fact, we've seen Mueller (and this team) sweat it out of someone, such as General Flynn, which copped to a crime he didn't commit because he went bankrupt due to legal defense costs.

Some system of justice, eh? The government using its LEO can bankrupt you and make you cop to a crime you didn't commit.

'Houston, we have a problem here'. To my thinking this isn't how it should work.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
You have zero proof that they have anything to do with Trump correct?
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And you have zero proof that they don't. Don't just say there have been no collusion charges so far. You don't know what's waiting in the wings.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Now that the investigation is over and collusion wasn't proven, its time to move the goalposts on what collusion means to continue the lie that collusion occurred.

That is all this thread and the OP is about.
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It ain't over 'till it's over. And it ain't over.
 
madasheck said:
It ain't over 'till it's over. And it ain't over.
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That's the spirit.


I admire anyone who can still believe even when they're slapped right in the face with evidence to the contrary.
 
Vern said:
I always like it when a conservative starts a post with "lets be honest". You just know its not going to be. And athan did not disappoint. the claim is Trump and/or his campaign conspired to work with a foreign power to help him win the election. like all conservatives you have to "misparaphrase" the issue to argue it.
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Oh--so nobody ever thought Trump & Co. conspired with Russia to win the election.
How Orwellian...
 
Vern said:
I always like it when a conservative starts a post with "lets be honest". You just know its not going to be. And athan did not disappoint. the claim is Trump and/or his campaign conspired to work with a foreign power to help him win the election. like all conservatives you have to "misparaphrase" the issue to argue it.
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Do you live in a foreign country or haven't had access to tv or the internet for the past 2 years?
 
hanger4 said:
*Trump started the collusion narrative*No, the media started the collusion narrative.
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So Mueller didn't start it? Rosenestein? Then why is it a witch hunt? It wasn't a witch hunt.
They rolled up the FBI counterintelligence investigation into the crime of Russian meddling for team-Trump.
They rolled up Manafort's dirty past and present.
They rolled up Flynn's Turkey criminality.
It was triggered by Trump firing Comey because of the investigation into his campaign.

And they handled them all, without leaks, separated from the meddling White House, because Trump fired Comey.

Not a witch hunt.
Not focused on "collusion".

You all know this, you're just making sound-bite waves and we all know this routine.
 
Mach said:
So Mueller didn't start it? Rosenestein? Then why is it a witch hunt? It wasn't a witch hunt.
They rolled up the FBI counterintelligence investigation into the crime of Russian meddling for team-Trump.
They rolled up Manafort's dirty past and present.
They rolled up Flynn's Turkey criminality.
It was triggered by Trump firing Comey because of the investigation into his campaign.

And they handled them all, without leaks, separated from the meddling White House, because Trump fired Comey.

Not a witch hunt.
Not focused on "collusion".

You all know this, you're just making sound-bite waves and we all know this routine.
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The above poster is correct. You're wrong. Indeed it was the media... LawFare

How did the word “collusion” get introduced into the public lexicon? And who is initially responsible for introducing it? The answer, it turns out, goes back to July of 2016 at the Democratic National Convention.

On July 22, 2016, Wikileaks released more than 19,000 emails from top members of the Democratic National Committee. Two days after the release, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager Robby Mook told CNN that, according to “experts,” Russian state actors had stolen the emails from the DNC and were releasing them through Wikileaks “for the purpose of actually helping Donald Trump.”

Mook did not use the word “collusion,” but the press, in reporting his comments, did. Within the hour, in an article timestamped at 9:55 a.m., the Washington Examiner reported that Paul Manafort and Donald Trump Jr, had responded to Mook’s allegations and “vigorously denied any kind of collusion between Trump Sr. and the Russian president.” (To be clear, Manafort denied “any ties” between Putin and the Trump campaign, and Donald Trump Jr. criticized Mook for “lie after lie.” Neither one of them mentioned “collusion.”) Ninety minutes later, at 11:27 a.m., ABC News repeated what it termed Mook’s “allegation of collusion between the campaign and Russia.” And three hours later, at approximately 12:35 p.m., Bernie Sanders’s campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, told CNN’s Jake Tapper, “If there was some kind of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence or Russian hackers, that clearly has to be dealt with.
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uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
Click to expand...

Their are no charges nor indictments of anyone in the Trump circle of collusion nor obstruction. All the charges are for process crimes or crimes that took place outside the campaign and mostly year before.Dems just can't stand being wrong all the time, first with Hillary and now over the Trump made up witchhunt.
 
SCrider said:
No one yet. Just because there have not been any charges does not mean it did not happen.
It will be interesting to see the 3 dozen indictments that are sealed to be released.
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WHOA! 3 dozen sealed indictments? Where did you hear that?
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
Click to expand...

Who colluded with Russians and engaged in obstruction of justice to do so was President Obama and the Clintons. That is outright fact.

After promising Russia "flexibility," President Obama ordered the FBI and DOJ to NOT investigate Russian involvement in our elections. In addition, this collusion resulted in tens of millions of dollars to the Clintons, Russia gaining by invasion Crimea, and 20% of our uranium to make Putin's monster bombs against the USA - plus protected all the Russian spies that Mueller had indicted with President Obama no longer able to protect them.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Hey--- from your new favorite writer:

Trump-Russia Investigation: We Need Full Disclosure of Documents, Testimony | National Review
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Democrats in Congress desperately will try to still serve Putin and our other adversaries by demanding all national security secrets presented in secret grand jury actions be publicly exposed. Those Democrats and many on this forum will furious demand that Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran and others be told every investigation tool we have, every under cover personnel we have, and every other possible national security secret they can expose in their pure hatred of the United States and Americans.

Democrats on those committees in Congress should be charged with being unregistered foreign agents when they do so.
 
joko104 said:
Who colluded with Russians and engaged in obstruction of justice to do so was President Obama and the Clintons. That is outright fact.

After promising Russia "flexibility," President Obama ordered the FBI and DOJ to NOT investigate Russian involvement in our elections. In addition, this collusion resulted in tens of millions of dollars to the Clintons, Russia gaining by invasion Crimea, and 20% of our uranium to make Putin's monster bombs against the USA - plus protected all the Russian spies that Mueller had indicted with President Obama no longer able to protect them.
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The clintons and Uranium one again. Look when the report gets leaked, or sent to congress and shared and made public, there won't be any mention of Uranium One.
 
Integrityrespec said:
Their are no charges nor indictments of anyone in the Trump circle of collusion nor obstruction. All the charges are for process crimes or crimes that took place outside the campaign and mostly year before.Dems just can't stand being wrong all the time, first with Hillary and now over the Trump made up witchhunt.
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As I understand it since the DOJ guidelines specify a sitting president cannot be indicted it is not incumbent on the Special Counsel to recommend prosecution, no matter what the president did. So when congress gets their hands on it - and they will - then we find out if they think the president's actions are worthy of impeachment.
 
dobieg said:
Once again, please show a single indictment of Trump or anyone he's associated with who colluded with Russia to change the election.
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Manafort's and Stone's rap sheets already show that.

And remember Mueller cannot recommend indicting the president yet because DOJ rules forbid it. Doesn't mean what we get to see in the report won't be evidence of criminality. It was at this point in the Watergate affair the president felt the noose tighten.

The fun stuff is yet to come too: over the past few months the various investigations have evolved far beyond the special counsel's Russia probe. We already found the president committed campaign finance violations and it has come out his campaign has taken all manner of foreign money undeclared for its inauguration. His troubles don't end today just because he cannot be indicted by his own staff.
 
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