[W:257] Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I made no mention of facts one way or another. I also never said the consensus must be correct.

So how can you say with any kind of certainty?

All I am saying is that I try to base my understanding on the opinion of the scientific community, which isn't perfect, but is the best that I have got.

I don't spend a loot of time reading this sort of thing but generally there doesn't seem to be enough information to lead one way or the other.

I am a layperson with little training in science. I can't just get on a forum like this and start asserting things.

Speaking of facts, what "facts" have YOU got?

I have no idea why some people are gay.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Not entirely. Mass murderers are born sinners but not born mass murderers. Homosexuals are not born homosexual.

I know you believe homosexuals aren't born homosexual. I want to know how you know this.

Kids are not even born sexual in an important regard. Their sexual desires come much later and their life experiences play a major role in the development of their sexual interests.

So you don't think any of that is biological?

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

So how can you say with any kind of certainty?

Because I have a certain amount of faith in the scientific community. Anyway, let's stop with this sort of indirect, veiled aggression. It appears to me that you are trying to "get" me. I won't play your little game. If you truly don't know why some people are gay, then your input in a thread like this (which specifically deals with homosexuality, it even says in the title) is most likely minimal.

I have no idea why some people are gay.

Thanks for telling us that, but you haven't presented any facts yet. You were implying that you had facts a few posts up. Correct me if wrong.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Not entirely. Mass murderers are born sinners but not born mass murderers. Homosexuals are not born homosexual. Kids are not even born sexual in an important regard. Their sexual desires come much later and their life experiences play a major role in the development of their sexual interests.

Nobody is born a sinner.

 

[RamFel]

Odd choice of words ya got right there.

Ya, thanks, but it got tha message through fer me.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Nobody is born a sinner.

So the young never listen to bad influence from older people who should know better?

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Because I have a certain amount of faith in the scientific community.

all they have managed to develop is a hypothesis

Anyway, let's stop with this sort of indirect, veiled aggression. It appears to me that you are trying to "get" me.

that's a bit odd, I was rather enjoying conversion with you. I wasn't trying to "get you" I was trying to see if you really knew anything.

I won't play your little game. If you truly don't know why some people are gay, then your input in a thread like this (which specifically deals with homosexuality, it even says in the title) is most likely minimal.

The input I offered here in this thread was purely anecdotal. And it was very much on topic.

Beyond that, I'm not here to make input, I'm here to talk to people to better understand them.

Thanks for telling us that, but you haven't presented any facts yet.

I don't know how to prove that I don't know something. I am not sure I even can.

You were implying that you had facts a few posts up. Correct me if wrong.

No, i didn't imply that.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Nobody is born a sinner.

well according to doctrine people are born in sin.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

all they have managed to develop is a hypothesis

If you do not have faith in the scientific community, for any reason at all, that is your business. The only thing I know is that *I* have a certain amount of faith in them. Whether you think having a mere hypothesis is good/convincing enough is besides the point. The only reason I even brought this whole faith thing up is because you asked me how I could have any certainty.

that's a bit odd, I was rather enjoying conversion with you. I wasn't trying to "get you" I was trying to see if you really knew anything.

Then keep wondering that. I do not come to this board to satisfy your idle curiosity.

The input I offered here in this thread was purely anecdotal. And it was very much on topic.

I didn't say you weren't on topic. I said your input was most likely minimal.

Beyond that, I'm not here to make input, I'm here to talk to people to better understand them.

Fair enough. I also sometimes try to understand how other people think.

I don't know how to prove that I don't know something. I am not sure I even can. No, i didn't imply that.

I didn't ask you to prove that. I just know that I mainly want to dispel the misconception some people (I don't mean you) seem to have that homosexuality is purely genetic. If this is not your claim, then you are not who I want to talk to.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Don't try to put this on me, I have no intention of trying to answer vague anecdotal claims. If you have something specific, let's hear it. Otherwise, go bother someone else.

I did not make a vague claim. You are just pretending it is because you know you cannot answer it. I am not putting anything on you. You make it quite clear already that you can do nothing to disclaim the assertion that anything can be read into the bible from murder to charity.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

If you do not have faith in the scientific community, for any reason at all, that is your business.

In the community or science? I couldn't care less about the community.

The only thing I know is that *I* have a certain amount of faith in them. Whether you think having a mere hypothesis is good/convincing enough is besides the point. The only reason I even brought this whole faith thing up is because you asked me how I could have any certainty.

So it's axiomatic?

Then keep wondering that. I do not come to this board to satisfy your idle curiosity.

Seems like you come here to make claims you can't support.

I didn't say you weren't on topic. I said your input was most likely minimal.

this exchange between you and me has been me asking you for input so within this Exchange my input isn't minimal it's non-existent.

Fair enough. I also sometimes try to understand how other people think.


I didn't ask you to prove that. I just know that I mainly want to dispel the misconception some people (I don't mean you) seem to have that homosexuality is purely genetic. If this is not your claim, then you are not who I want to talk to.

I don't make any claims because I don't know.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I am not a Christian, but I would never say in front of a Christian that I regard their holy book as toilet paper. I guess some people just have more class than others.

I have called that worthless book far worse things. Call it for what it is. A trashy novel of no value what so ever

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Still do not see a scripture supporting the act of murdering an abortion doctor...people do a lot of twisting of Scriptures, as you well know...doesn't make it true by any means nor is it the fault of what is written in the Bible...put the blame where it belongs, on the so-called Christian who abused and mis-used it...

The bible does not. But does that stop a christian from believing it does? Apparently not by the fact that a christian killed an abortion doctor because it was declared a sin, in his mind.

I do agree with you on this. If it was a case that all christians agreed on what is written in the bible you might have a point. But they do not. So when a christian, as had happen in this thread, tells me that it is not his fault that the bible calls homosexuality a sin and that i need take it up with god. I know that i am dealing with someone who fails to realise that, as you have so eloquently said, put the blame where it belongs, on the so-called Christian who abused and mis-used it.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

In the community or science? I couldn't care less about the community.

So it's axiomatic?


Seems like you come here to make claims you can't support.



this exchange between you and me has been me asking you for input so within this Exchange my input isn't minimal it's non-existent.




I don't make any claims because I don't know.

Sorry but I find talking to you a waste of my time. And I am not saying this to insult you. It's like I said, I am only interested in dispelling the misconception that homosexuality is caused by purely genetic factors only.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I have called that worthless book far worse things.

Like what? Show the whole forum how nasty you can really be.

Call it for what it is. A trashy novel of no value what so ever

I am not saying the Bible is a "good" or "worthwhile" book. I am just saying that you shouldn't have said to a Christian that his holy book is toilet paper. Don't you have any respect for other people? What about manners?

 

[Risky Thicket]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I never said not liking other men was my choice. I just happen to not like other men and that's how its always been. I never said anything about whether or not somebody gets to choose which gender they're attracted to, or whether or not they're attracted to both genders, so stop making a straw man argument.

You are secretly attracted to straw men, aren't you?

 

[Aberration]

And what happens when something is fulfilled, a contract for instance, which is what the Law Covenant was...the requirements are met and the contract is over...finished...fulfilled....the end...

If I am playing baseball, and I am at bat, and I hit the ball and make it to first base before getting tagged I have fulfilled the requirements to be safe at first base. The rules didn’t disappear. Fulfilled is not finished, it is not the end. That is why they are different words with different etymology.

 

[Aberration]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

The things that are sins are spelled out. Show me the part where you are allowed to shoot abortion doctors.

Show me the part where it says you can not use deadly force to defend the life of another human being.

 

[Aberration]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

no it's not an excuse what you're saying is bull****. I don't buy that it doesn't make sense.

Yep. So you have said.

okay explain how they still apply?

I already have.

this has nothing to do with what I stated if they do not keep kosher Christians do not follow the law they don't have to follow the law because Christ changed it.

No. They do not keep Kosher because the Christ fulfilled the Law.

you did the claim that I didn't understand the Bible this is starting to look like this mental gymnastics that always comes with this nonsense. A lot of people really can't handle that the Bible contradicts itself.

Or maybe you are trying to fabricate contradictions that don’t exist.

well I'm going to repeat it until you giving me a satisfactory explanation to why it is false.

To this point you haven't.

My intention was never to provide an explanation that is satisfactory to you, only an explanation that is satisfactory.

just making random ass claims that you don't support is not at all an argument.

Its not uncommon for things to appear random to the ignorant.

so the gospels by your definition here is just some Vandal changing the speed limit sign?

This argument lacks good faith.


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[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Sorry but I find talking to you a waste of my time. And I am not saying this to insult you. It's like I said, I am only interested in dispelling the misconception that homosexuality is caused by purely genetic factors only.

Well you are going to have a difficult time.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Yep. So you have said.



I already have.



No. They do not keep Kosher because the Christ fulfilled the Law.

That doesn't make sense. How is a law fulfilled?

Or maybe you are trying to fabricate contradictions that don’t exist.

No not really. A law going from having to be followed to not having to be followed seems like a change to anybody not in denial.

My intention was never to provide an explanation that is satisfactory to you, only an explanation that is satisfactory.

All you did was try and bull****.

Its not uncommon for things to appear random to the ignorant.



This argument lacks good faith.

I was simply applying your analogy. I'm sorry your analogy lacks good faith.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Society should not wink at sin and sodomy is sin.

So is shaving, which I'm about to do.

 

[Aberration]

That doesn't make sense. How is a law fulfilled?

I think we have established that it doesn’t make sense to you. Got it.

The Law is fulfilled by the only ever perfect lamb being sacrificed.

No not really. A law going from having to be followed to not having to be followed seems like a change to anybody not in denial.

You’d be right if that was what was going onl. It’s not.

All you did was try and bull****.

I get it. Not understanding can be frustrating.

I was simply applying your analogy. I'm sorry your analogy lacks good faith.

Another bad faith argument. You intentionally misrepresented my words. At least have the integrity to admit it.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Show me the part where it says you can not use deadly force to defend the life of another human being.

False equivalence.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I did not make a vague claim. You are just pretending it is because you know you cannot answer it. I am not putting anything on you. You make it quite clear already that you can do nothing to disclaim the assertion that anything can be read into the bible from murder to charity.

Give me an example, then, or give it a rest.