[W:257] Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

[it's just me]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

So you’re equating defending the life of another human being to eating glass?

No, stay on point.

 

[Aberration]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

No, stay on point.

I’m staying on your point. If you don’t like it, then don’t wander off point.

 

[Daisy]

If I am playing baseball, and I am at bat, and I hit the ball and make it to first base before getting tagged I have fulfilled the requirements to be safe at first base. The rules didn’t disappear. Fulfilled is not finished, it is not the end. That is why they are different words with different etymology.

What's the expression? Straw man I believe...there are no contracts involved, it's just a stupid game...the Law Covenant was a contract between Jehovah God and the nation of Israel, no one else...when Christ came and died, that contract was fulfilled, there was no reason for that contract of animal blood sacrifice or any of the other ritualistic laws of that covenant...that being said, God's moral laws governed by love do not change...
J

Jesus himself pointed out that the Law must be fulfilled. (Heb. 10:1; Matt. 5:17, 18) And at Galatians 3:19, 24 the objective of the Law is specifically stated in this way: “Why, then, the Law? It was added [to the Abrahamic covenant] to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive to whom the promise had been made, and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator. Consequently, the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith.” The Law constantly reminded the Jews of their imperfection and impressed upon their minds the need of a perfect sacrifice that could really take away their sins. But it required God to exercise his love further to bring about the fulfillment of the ‘good things that were to come’ and to ‘send forth his Son, who was produced out of a woman and who came to be under law, that he might release by purchase those under law.’ (Gal. 4:4, 5) It is such love that the apostle John refers to, saying: “The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.” (1 John 4:10) Therefore, the love that underlies the Law, that brought about the fulfillment of its prophetic types, and that called for the Israelites to respond with love for God and for their fellow men, is the love that God himself has shown.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1959842?q=types+of+law+in+the+law+covenant&p=par

 

[CLAX1911]

I think we have established that it doesn’t make sense to you. Got it.

The Law is fulfilled by the only ever perfect lamb being sacrificed.

No the law was changed. Saying it was fulfilled when you really mean it was changed and pretending it's not the same thing is just something you do to help you pretend that God didn't change his mind when clearly he did.

You can lie to yourself.

You’d be right if that was what was going onl. It’s not.



I get it. Not understanding can be frustrating.



Another bad faith argument. You intentionally misrepresented my words. At least have the integrity to admit it.

All you're doing here is posturing.

 

[Crunchtime]

No the law was changed. Saying it was fulfilled when you really mean it was changed and pretending it's not the same thing is just something you do to help you pretend that God didn't change his mind when clearly he did.

You can lie to yourself.




All you're doing here is posturing.

Do you understand the concept of a "developing story"? God didn't change His mind, but gave a new and better covenant. The "story" is too complex to make the judgment you're making. Prophetic words were spoken from the beginning (Genesis) that are still being fulfilled. The law was fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ, and is still be fulfilled today in His body; that is His true church. The law had to be fulfilled because God required it. Justice had to be served before men could be reconciled. Now men, through Jesus Christ, and because of His work on the cross, are invited to come and be reconciled unto God. It's a developing story because men are still coming. Even today.

 

[CLAX1911]

Do you understand the concept of a "developing story"? God didn't change His mind, but gave a new and better covenant.

why would he give a new and better Covenant if he didn't change his mind?

The "story" is too complex to make the judgment you're making.

no it's really not.

You even said yourself the new covenants better why would he improve on something that he thought was perfect?

Prophetic words were spoken from the beginning (Genesis) that are still being fulfilled. The law was fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ, and is still be fulfilled today in His body; that is His true church. The law had to be fulfilled because God required it. Justice had to be served before men could be reconciled.

no the prophecy was fulfilled and therefore the laws changed. Being reconciled requires change.

Now men, through Jesus Christ, and because of His work on the cross, are invited to come and be reconciled unto God.

which is different from the way it used to be when things are different from the way they used to be that indicates change.

It's a developing story because men are still coming. Even today.

Developments are improvements or changes.

I think what's going on here is you desperately want to Bible to be perfection because you've been told all your life that it's the word of God and that it's infallible and you can't handle me pointing out flaws so you practice this mental gymnastics to convince yourself that there are no flaws.

 

[Crunchtime]

why would he give a new and better Covenant if he didn't change his mind?

no it's really not.

You even said yourself the new covenants better why would he improve on something that he thought was perfect?


no the prophecy was fulfilled and therefore the laws changed. Being reconciled requires change.


which is different from the way it used to be when things are different from the way they used to be that indicates change.



Developments are improvements or changes.

I think what's going on here is you desperately want to Bible to be perfection because you've been told all your life that it's the word of God and that it's infallible and you can't handle me pointing out flaws so you practice this mental gymnastics to convince yourself that there are no flaws.

I tried but your mind is closed. What's going on is I have studied the Bible for many years and you haven't. I'm not desperate about anything. Your view is secular. Good luck with it.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Like what? Show the whole forum how nasty you can really be.


I am not saying the Bible is a "good" or "worthwhile" book. I am just saying that you shouldn't have said to a Christian that his holy book is toilet paper. Don't you have any respect for other people? What about manners?

It is not being nasty to point out that the book has no value whatsoever. Unless you want to start a fire or need some toilet paper. But use the gideons bible for that they use a cheap quality paper suitable for wiping ones arse. the st james book tend to use glossy paper which is not all that absorbent.

Christians will complain no doubt, but so what. If they are not persecuting some minority themselves as they are doing here against homosexuals, then they are whinging about being persecuted themselves.

And no, I really do not have respect for such people. But that is more a generalisation. In practice i take each individual as i find them. Some do in fact do no harm with their superstitions. But the majority are like the christians here. Pretending that it is gods decision to call homosexuality a sin rather than what it actually is, their own personal belief.
The only other set of people who use that excuse is war criminals with the excuse of, " I was only following orders."

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Give me an example, then, or give it a rest.

I already have with a link to an abortion doctors murder. But look up Westboro Baptist Church. If you want another good example.

 

[Crunchtime]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Homosexuality is a belief? How so? You've spoken very strongly against Christianity and I assume religion in general, but by your own words, you've made homosexuality a religion? Can you explain that?

 

[Crunchtime]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I already have with a link to an abortion doctors murder. But look up Westboro Baptist Church. If you want another good example.

There are millions of churches in the US, but to serve your own purposes you choose, possibly the worst example. If you insist on bashing Christianity, at least use an honest example.

 

[Crunchtime]

why would he give a new and better Covenant if he didn't change his mind?

no it's really not.

You even said yourself the new covenants better why would he improve on something that he thought was perfect?


no the prophecy was fulfilled and therefore the laws changed. Being reconciled requires change.


which is different from the way it used to be when things are different from the way they used to be that indicates change.



Developments are improvements or changes.

I think what's going on here is you desperately want to Bible to be perfection because you've been told all your life that it's the word of God and that it's infallible and you can't handle me pointing out flaws so you practice this mental gymnastics to convince yourself that there are no flaws.

The reason the New covenant is better is that includes both the Jew and the gentile. The original covenants were given to Israel, and were given to establish it as a nation. Once again, prophesy covers it, but you need to know and understand prophesy to a degree. You obviously, don't.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

There are millions of churches in the US, but to serve your own purposes you choose, possibly the worst example. If you insist on bashing Christianity, at least use an honest example.

Fair enough. Let's stick with the subject of this thread then.

To call homosexuality a sin is to attempt to disparage a group of people. To put the blame for this on god by saying he commanded that that is so is to attempt to shift the blame for a persons own personal prejudice with a weak justification. Weak because it can be well demonstrated that there is no real consensus among christians on this subject. It ranges from wanting to imprison and even kill homosexuals to allowing them to marry and raise children. It basically is just the personal choice of a christian using a god as screen to disguise their own particular desires.

 

[Crunchtime]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Fair enough. Let's stick with the subject of this thread then.

To call homosexuality a sin is to attempt to disparage a group of people. To put the blame for this on god by saying he commanded that that is so is to attempt to shift the blame for a persons own personal prejudice with a weak justification. Weak because it can be well demonstrated that there is no real consensus among christians on this subject. It ranges from wanting to imprison and even kill homosexuals to allowing them to marry and raise children. It basically is just the personal choice of a christian using a god as screen to disguise their own particular desires.

I think the discussion of homosexuality as opposed to the Biblical position is almost always fruitless. I have done it and won't any longer. However, I will say one thing as it pertains to your comments. The difference in opinion in so called "Christian Circles" is caused by only one thing. That is this. Adherence to the scriptures. The Bibles position is very clear. Homosexual activity is a sin. The so called 'Christians" that support gay marriage do so at their own peril.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I think the discussion of homosexuality as opposed to the Biblical position is almost always fruitless. I have done it and won't any longer. However, I will say one thing as it pertains to your comments. The difference in opinion in so called "Christian Circles" is caused by only one thing. That is this. Adherence to the scriptures. The Bibles position is very clear. Homosexual activity is a sin. The so called 'Christians" that support gay marriage do so at their own peril.

So in other words you simply cherry pick that which suites you. And interpret it in ways that suite you.
As i have shown. Christians will take whatever their own neurosis is and justify it by scripture. That some christians choose to call other christians mistaken in their interpretation at there peril is what makes christianity such a laughable joke.

The bibles position is only what men have written into it. Other than the "Just following orders" mentality of christians and war criminals. you can give no good reason why homosexuality is a sin..
That god said it. What a joke of a reply when we consider that if we asked another christian they might say the opposite.

 

[Crunchtime]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

So in other words you simply cherry pick that which suites you. And interpret it in ways that suite you.
As i have shown. Christians will take whatever their own neurosis is and justify it by scripture. That some christians choose to call other christians mistaken in their interpretation at there peril is what makes christianity such a laughable joke.

The bibles position is only what men have written into it. Other than the "Just following orders" mentality of christians and war criminals. you can give no good reason why homosexuality is a sin..
That god said it. What a joke of a reply when we consider that if we asked another christian they might say the opposite.

What one man may consider to be a joke, to another his very soul may depend on it. What are you doing attempting to contribute to this thread when you know nothing about the subject? The title is Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality. Your viewpoint is nothing more than a feeble attempt to berate Christians. That's a fools errand, and it seems to fit you well.

 

[CLAX1911]

The reason the New covenant is better is that includes both the Jew and the gentile. The original covenants were given to Israel, and were given to establish it as a nation. Once again, prophesy covers it, but you need to know and understand prophesy to a degree. You obviously, don't.

Acknowledgement of a new covenant is understanding there is a change.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

What one man may consider to be a joke, to another his very soul may depend on it. What are you doing attempting to contribute to this thread when you know nothing about the subject? The title is Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality. Your viewpoint is nothing more than a feeble attempt to berate Christians. That's a fools errand, and it seems to fit you well.

No, it is a very poignant look at the christian view of homosexuality. They have nothing to offer except their own personal neurotic viewpoint and disguise it as if it were god word. Laughable really.

I know nothing about the subject? Once again when having nothing worthwhile to say then fall back on claiming the opponent ignorant.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

No, it is a very poignant look at the christian view of homosexuality. They have nothing to offer except their own personal neurotic viewpoint and disguise it as if it were god word. Laughable really.

I know nothing about the subject? Once again when having nothing worthwhile to say then fall back on claiming the opponent ignorant.

So what do you think this means exactly?

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

So what do you think this means exactly?

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9,10

The bible isn't written in English.

 

[Aberration]

No the law was changed. Saying it was fulfilled when you really mean it was changed and pretending it's not the same thing is just something you do to help you pretend that God didn't change his mind when clearly he did.

You can lie to yourself.

Let me know when you have an actual argument.

All you're doing here is posturing.

Again. No actual argument to discuss.

 

[CLAX1911]

Let me know when you have an actual argument.



Again. No actual argument to discuss.

My argument is Rock Solid. It has changed.

Posturing and denial notwithstanding.

 

[Logician Man]

My argument is Rock Solid. It has changed.

Posturing and denial notwithstanding.

Hi Clax.Remember when we first 'met' and you told me that it was your personal experience that it was those from the left who seemed to judge you more on your gender preference that those on the right?...This thread now has 573 posts. Just concentrating on this thread as a sample pool,and the posts it contains,and who has posted what,who do you think has a bigger issue with your homosexuality. Those on the left,or those on the right?

 

[CLAX1911]

Hi Clax.Remember when we first 'met' and you told me that it was your personal experience that it was those from the left who seemed to judge you more on your gender preference that those on the right?...This thread now has 573 posts. Just concentrating on this thread as a sample pool,and the posts it contains,and who has posted what,who do you think has a bigger issue with your homosexuality. Those on the left,or those on the right?

I don't care who has an issue with it, it isn't my issue. What I said was I face more discrimination from the left.

 

[Logician Man]

I don't care who has an issue with it, it isn't my issue. What I said was I face more discrimination from the left.

This thread,although it is admittedly a small sample pool,would indicate otherwise if you look through the posts and who identifies as lefties and righties,and who has posted what regarding homosexuality and discrimination. There are also numerous other threads in this forum which clearly reflect the same thing.