[W:257] Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

How did you go about making the choice about which sex you would be attracted to? If this is something that people can easily choose, then you can easily choose to be attracted to the same sex right?

I tell you if I could have chosen to be attracted to the opposite sex I absolutely would have.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

So a lifestyle is all about sex to you?

1. No.
2. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

If you are really asking me, then my answer is, I don't know. I am not a scientist. But I know for almost 100 % certainty that homosexuality, and everything related to it, is caused by both genetic and environmental factors.

just out of curiosity how do you know with that level of certainty?

If you are claiming that people can't choose to be gay and that gay people are all born gay, then the onus is on you to prove your claim.

I'm not sure if Wolfsgirl is claiming that or not. But it wouldn't be something I would claim, because I don't know.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

1. No.
2. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.

I didn't mean to misrepresent what you said. But correct me if I'm wrong you did say that by lifestyle you mean people who go out and pursue relationships with people of the same sex, including sex correct?

 

[wolfsgirl]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

If you are really asking me, then my answer is, I don't know. I am not a scientist. But I know with almost 100 % certainty that homosexuality, and everything related to it, is caused by both genetic and environmental factors.

If you are claiming that people can't choose to be gay and that gay people are all born gay, then the onus is on you to prove your claim.

You made the claim "People can choose to adopt the gay life-style." Then you go on to say that the gay lifestyle includes being attracted to someone of the same sex.

YOU made the claim now back it up.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

That's what I been saying and getting reamed for it. Nobody has to listen to you, but if I say it's wrong, then it's wrong. Remember you don't have to do whatever you don't want.

Odd choice of words ya got right there.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

You made the claim "People can choose to adopt the gay life-style." Then you go on to say that the gay lifestyle includes being attracted to someone of the same sex.

YOU made the claim now back it up.

I am not putting forth any positive claims, at least not consciously/deliberately. If I said something, it's mostly because you were pressing me for answers. I really do not care to back anything up because I don't care to prove (or disprove) to others whether homosexuality is whatever/this or that. The same cannot be said about you. You have an agenda to push.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

just out of curiosity how do you know with that level of certainty?

If the exact number, namely, close to 100%, bothers you, then I can retract it. How about instead I just say, "I am quite certain that ______". Would this satisfy you?

 

[wolfsgirl]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I am not putting forth any positive claims, at least not consciously/deliberately. If I said something, it's mostly because you were pressing me for answers. I really do not care to back anything up because I don't care to prove (or disprove) to others whether homosexuality is whatever/this or that. The same cannot be said about you. You have an agenda to push.

I wasn't pressing for anything when you stated that "people can choose to adopt the gay lifestyle" in fact my response to you was my first post in this thread. YOU made that claim, not me. I never once mentioned anything about choosing or born this way.

So who is pushing the agenda, the one that claimed that people can choose, or the one that didn't make any claim at all?

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I wasn't pressing for anything when you stated that "people can choose to adopt the gay lifestyle" in fact my response to you was my first post in this thread. YOU made that claim, not me. I never once mentioned anything about choosing or born this way.

So who is pushing the agenda, the one that claimed that people can choose, or the one that didn't make any claim at all?

If you think or want to "prove" that I am trying to push an agenda, that's fine. I don't care.

 

[wolfsgirl]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

If you think or want to "prove" that I am trying to push an agenda, that's fine. I don't care.

No, I'm asking you to do what you asked me to do, back up your claim. I haven't made any claims one way or the other, you have.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

No, I'm asking you to do what you asked me to do, back up your claim. I haven't made any claims one way or the other, you have.

Then I have already told you, I don't care to back anything up. What you want to make of this, I don't care either.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

If the exact number, namely, close to 100%, bothers you, then I can retract it. How about instead I just say, "I am quite certain that ______". Would this satisfy you?

Well I am just curious how you come to this conclusion. The percentage of which you are sure isn't really the concern.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I can do better than that. i can show you what i actually stated. Which is that the book is so badly written that a christian can use it to kill .
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/28/scott-roeder-abortion-doctor-killer



As i have said it is not what is written in the book. It is how the book can be used to justify all sorts of horrible actions.

That is just an extreme case of how the bible can be abused in a fashion. Another would be that christians use it to call homosexuality a sin and then blame god for that so called fact instead of owning up to the fact that like the killer they are merely reading what they want into the bible.

Still do not see a scripture supporting the act of murdering an abortion doctor...people do a lot of twisting of Scriptures, as you well know...doesn't make it true by any means nor is it the fault of what is written in the Bible...put the blame where it belongs, on the so-called Christian who abused and mis-used it...

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Well I am just curious how you come to this conclusion.

I try to keep myself current in terms of news, and especially about things like these (homosexuality, transsexualism etc). I also try to read online scholarly articles. I don't understand everything, of course, but I manage to get the gist of it. My understanding (could be wrong, of course) is that the consensus in the scientific community is that it is influenced by both genetic and environmental factors.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

That's the other thing they always overlook: if homosexuality is learned behavior, there would be no homosexuals, since there couldn't have been anyone there to teach the first one.

That is not how sin works, according to James...

“But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.” James 1:14, 15,

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

I try to keep myself current in terms of news, and especially about things like these (homosexuality, transsexualism etc). I also try to read online scholarly articles. I don't understand everything, of course, but I manage to get the gist of it. My understanding (could be wrong, of course) is that the consensus in the scientific community is that it is influenced by both genetic and environmental factors.

You do know that consensus doesn't equate to facts right?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

That is not how sin works, according to James...

“But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.” James 1:14, 15,

OK, but that's quite irrelevant to what I stated.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

You do know that consensus doesn't equate to facts right?

I made no mention of facts one way or another. I also never said the consensus must be correct. All I am saying is that I try to base my understanding on the opinion of the scientific community, which isn't perfect, but is the best that I have got. I am a layperson with little training in science. I can't just get on a forum like this and start asserting things.

Speaking of facts, what "facts" have YOU got?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

You said not "liking" other men is your "choice".

I never said not liking other men was my choice. I just happen to not like other men and that's how its always been. I never said anything about whether or not somebody gets to choose which gender they're attracted to, or whether or not they're attracted to both genders, so stop making a straw man argument.

 

[Daisy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

OK, but that's quite irrelevant to what I stated.

Not at all...it has everything to do with what you said...a person has desires, some wrong, some right...acting on wrong desires, which the Bible clearly states in 1 Corinthians 6:9,10, brings forth sin, and sin in turn brings forth death...

 

[marke]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

The Bible explains that we are Sinners by Nature not by learned behavior.

Not entirely. Mass murderers are born sinners but not born mass murderers. Homosexuals are not born homosexual. Kids are not even born sexual in an important regard. Their sexual desires come much later and their life experiences play a major role in the development of their sexual interests.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

Not at all...it has everything to do with what you said...a person has desires, some wrong, some right...acting on wrong desires, which the Bible clearly states in 1 Corinthians 6:9,10, bring forth sin, and sin in turn brings forth death...

No, I was addressing the contention that homosexuality is a learned activity, and demonstrating how it could not be.

 

[Wan]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

No, I was addressing the contention that homosexuality is a learned activity, and demonstrating how it could not be.

Did you see my response to you, post # 460?

 

[Daisy]

Re: Christian Viewpoint On Homosexuality

No, I was addressing the contention that homosexuality is a learned activity, and demonstrating how it could not be.

And I am agreeing with you...it is a desire that comes from within, though it be a wrong desire, according to scripture...