U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid..[W:21]

[MSgt]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

There are over 20 countries that exist today, that weren't there even 25 years ago. Sorry, but new borders are being drawn all the time and "international law" is a fiction that is only a reality if it's imposed on weak countries. In other words, they are a facade.

First of all, these new countries (mostly in Africa and East Europe) are largely because older systems had failed and Frankenstein monster countries fractured back apart. They are not due to conquering a neighbor's territory and planting a flag. If you are going to use history to present a point, don't forget the context. If Germany gets a black eye for invading and conquering, so should Israel. If Russia gets the black eye for invading Ukraine and conquering, so does Israel.

Second, it is true that borders are historically always in fluctuation. Again, context matters.

Third, plenty of international law is a facade because the world lacks an enforcement tool and the laws are haphazardly applied. For example, the UN cared enough about Bosnia/Kosovo (part of fractured Yugoslavia) in Europe to declare a genocide, yet completely ignored Sudan in Africa during the same 1990s period. And these international laws exist largely because Americans made them. Again, context matters.

Ah...so your position is to kowtow to terrorism, violence, and intimidation. Because appeasing that behavior has always worked so well in the past? And it's always been dangerous for Americans and even moreso today, but that has nothing to do with the embassy move.

First of all, I assure you that you have absolutely nothing on me when it comes to terrorism or violence. Let's just place that embarrassingly display of condescension and insult in the trash bin where it belongs.

Second, there is nothing about the U.S. military and economic support to Israel or Israel's eventual retaliations against the PLO, Fatah, or Hamas that suggests appeasement.

Third, it's always dangerous to walk across a busy street. This doesn't mean that you look for ways to make it more deadly. The same is true in conflict and war. One does not make haphazard decisions and toss caution to the wind because it's dangerous anyway. One does not look for ways to "get some."
That would be stupid.


* Your response was very ignorant and is entirely about kowtowing to Trump so you can smooch his ass. Unless you have something worth stating, move on.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

I don't know what you're talking about w/regard to being "so careful with your statement".

Again, '2 to 4 groups of people'. What did you think I meant? If you don't understand that I believe that fighting over a piece of land because you believe it was given to you by an imaginary being, is insane, I don't know how to help you. I put such beliefs on the same plane of existence as believing that slavery is valid because the bible, koran, torah tells you so. How you think this means only Jewish people alone is pretty funny.

You coming out of your shell?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Israel says Jerusalem is their capital. It's where the Knesset is, the city is the seat of the national government. In reality Jerusalem is the capital city of Israel. "Getting involved" technically would be keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv and somehow saying the US won't acknowledge the fact that Israel has Jerusalem as the capital. It would be like some other nation saying NYC is the US capital and not DC. The US moving the embassy in accordance with facts really shouldn't be controversial.

Why should I care what Israel says or thinks? Moving the embassy is going to cost us money, cause security concerns and turmoil in the region. America should stop worrying so much about the ME and getting involved. This is not America first.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

I haven't made it to Dubai, so I don't have as many specifics, but most the gulf countries are very exploitative of workers, especially foreign workers. I don't need to really discuss Pakistan in regards to their overall egalitarian/humanitarian issues.

I mean...it can definitely be nice if you're not part of certain groups and don't mind turning a blind eye to all the bad stuff. There are also some really nice cultural aspects in the Middle East, and many other Muslim countries, that I really like (generosity, family support, ect) but there are a lot of really bad things.

I know about the worker abuses.

Most of the people were know in Islamabad are wealthy and educated. Some of them are political activists and Imran Khan supporters. I don't know much about the politics in terms of law, but I spend a lot of time talking about their perspective. They do complain about Pakistan and want things to change. I also know of a liberation movement that helps families get out of generational slavery to other families.

 

[Fishking]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

First of all, these new countries (mostly in Africa and East Europe) are largely because older systems had failed and Frankenstein monster countries fractured back apart. They are not due to conquering a neighbor's territory and planting a flag. If you are going to use history to present a point, don't forget the context. If Germany gets a black eye for invading and conquering, so should Israel. If Russia gets the black eye for invading Ukraine and conquering, so does Israel.

Second, it is true that borders are historically always in fluctuation. Again, context matters.

Third, plenty of international law is a facade because the world lacks an enforcement tool and the laws are haphazardly applied. For example, the UN cared enough about Bosnia/Kosovo (part of fractured Yugoslavia) in Europe to declare a genocide, yet completely ignored Sudan in Africa during the same 1990s period. And these international laws exist largely because Americans made them. Again, context matters.

Seems like you long for an international forcing mechanism which, of course, would infringe on the sovereignty of the U.S. As for your examples, sorry, but they fall flat on their faces due to your glossing over the fact that Israel was not the aggressor but the defenders. Further, we have military bases all over the world from post WWII. We've used our post WWII power to dictate to other countries what they should be doing. We've toppled multiple governments to install governments that we choose. So yeah...your commentary is flawed, and lacks any kind of honest analysis of geopolitical situations. Maybe due to willful ignorance.

First of all, I assure you that you have absolutely nothing on me when it comes to terrorism or violence. Let's just place that embarrassingly display of condescension and insult in the trash bin where it belongs.

1. It was your own statement that policy should be tempered due to possible violent reactions. It wasn't an insult but a logical conclusion to your own words.
2. I'm sure I do just fine with my own experiences to talk about terrorism and violence with you. Funny you think you have a monopoly on that.

Second, there is nothing about the U.S. military and economic support to Israel or Israel's eventual retaliations against the PLO, Fatah, or Hamas that suggests appeasement.

Wrong. Working with terrorist organizations and tempering policy is appeasement.

Third, it's always dangerous to walk across a busy street. This doesn't mean that you look for ways to make it more deadly. The same is true in conflict and war. One does not make haphazard decisions and toss caution to the wind because it's dangerous anyway. One does not look for ways to "get some."
That would be stupid.

It's not haphazard. It's reasonable. What's not reasonable is continuing to think there is going to be any reasonable response or support for any policy that keeps Israel in existence. These countries and people do not even acknowledge Israels exists and extremism is so pervasive that you can't even call it extremism as it's too close to mainstream.

* Your response was very ignorant and is entirely about kowtowing to Trump so you can smooch his ass. Unless you have something worth stating, move on.

This has nothing to do with Trump and the irony of you calling someone else ignorant, after your fractured post is not lost on me.

 

[Fishking]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Again, '2 to 4 groups of people'. What did you think I meant? If you don't understand that I believe that fighting over a piece of land because you believe it was given to you by an imaginary being, is insane, I don't know how to help you. I put such beliefs on the same plane of existence as believing that slavery is valid because the bible, koran, torah tells you so. How you think this means only Jewish people alone is pretty funny.

You coming out of your shell?

Did I say you only mean the Jews? No, no I didn't. But you definitely include them and I pointed out to you the context of how Israel came back into existence and it was not irrational at all. You going to keep trying to dance around the points made or are you going to continue typing nonsense, thinking you're being cute?

 

[celticwar17]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Ya there so peaceful that Israel tried to grab the Suez Canal. Israel has a long history of violence in the Middle East. There is blame on BOTH sides.

I'm talking about within the country itself and how it governs. The country is literally surrounded by countries that would drop a nuke on it because they are jews... I'm not surprised it seize strategic land-points literally 60 years ago...

This is the thing all the time people like you do... you bring up irrelevant things that happen 60+ years ago where all the people involved with it from the governments side is completely dead.... no one today... is to blame so it's completely irrelevant

 

[Hatuey]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Did I say you only mean the Jews?

Okay, so we've clarified that this isn't about Jews, and millions of people dying is irrelevant to the statement I made. In short, your argument is something like saying that if I say 'blacks, hispanics, and latinos commit crimes', it is insensitive if you decide to focus on whites being mentioned. Well, that's bull****. The people living in the Middle East focusing on that garbage piece of land encompassing many different religions are all insane for spending the last 2,000 years, specifically the ones who have been fighting over what is essentially an arid desert wasteland. I have no shame in saying this and there isn't enough Godwining you can do to try and change that.

Are you coming out of your shell? Maybe try bringing abortion into the discussion?

 

[PeteEU]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Yes it is. It is the city the nation of Israel has declaredd to be it's capital. It is also recognized as such by the US. Do you think sovereign nations do not have the right to establish a capital city for their country?

Not in illegally occupied territory.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

So you are saying Israel has no sovereignty

Israel illegally occupies large parts of Jerusalem..

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Israel illegally occupies large parts of Jerusalem..

Jerusalem is occupied from whom exactly? The Jordanians?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Not in illegally occupied territory.

There are a lot of Americans who see nothing wrong with the Palestinians being entirely pushed out. They think it should be a Jewish state, as in an ethnostate.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Just because Isreal says its the capital doesnt mean the rest of the world has to abide by it. Most UN members dont recognize the "independence" of South Ossetia either.

Every sovereign nation has the right to recognize whatever it wants to but recognition is just that, a decision to either see something as it is or not to, it has no relevancy to the fact that a capital of a state is only dictated by the government of that state by definition.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

There are a lot of Americans who see nothing wrong with the Palestinians being entirely pushed out. They think it should be a Jewish state, as in an ethnostate.

It already is a Jewish state, not an ethnostate, far from it, but it's not going to "turn" into anything just because the US recognized the eternal capital of the Jewish people as what it is.

 

[Fishking]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Okay, so we've clarified that this isn't about Jews, and millions of people dying is irrelevant to the statement I made. In short, your argument is something like saying that if I say 'blacks, hispanics, and latinos commit crimes', it is insensitive if you decide to focus on whites being mentioned. Well, that's bull****. The people living in the Middle East focusing on that garbage piece of land encompassing many different religions are all insane for spending the last 2,000 years, specifically the ones who have been fighting over what is essentially an arid desert wasteland. I have no shame in saying this and there isn't enough Godwining you can do to try and change that.

Are you coming out of your shell? Maybe try bringing abortion into the discussion?

But it is about the Jews. You are including them in your statement so it's about them. I merely pointed out that claiming your own state after having been exterminated by the millions, and then fighting to keep that state, is not mentally ill or any such thing. It's perfectly reasonable and, in fact, a necessity.

Again, you keep trying to dance around to distract from the fact that you refused to address the points by thinking you are cleverly wording your statements. Well, it's not clever and I see right through it. And you're also trying a new tactic to distract by bringing in an entirely different subject into it. Sorry, but if you want to talk about abortion do it in the other threads that are talking about abortion. This thread is about the UN, US, and Israel.

 

[celticwar17]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Israel illegally occupies large parts of Jerusalem..

I'm pretty sure they won it in a war... just like how ANY country has occupied territory...

whether you think the war was justified or not is your opinion I guess.... but that was now 50 years ago... it's done...

 

[Hatuey]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

But it is about the Jews.

Only if you fail to ignore that Palestinians also have a claim to the land; which you have so you can validate your obsession with making it about Jews only. This is focusing you're doing, just because you didn't like 1 group of people mentioned along with several others is kind of funny. The fact that you're going off the deep end by more or less saying: Ahah! you really meant the Jews when discussing several groups of people is the only thing we're seeing through here. Everything else is you crystal balling into what I really meant.

 

[Sweden]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

When you THREATEN to stop funding over a single vote, it's basically blackmail isn't it?

No. Blackmail is when money is demanded with menaces. The US is not asking for money from anyone, simply saying it might pay a bit less to an organisation which consistently works against it.

 

[Sweden]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

The world just delivered a stinging rebuke to Trump over Jerusalem

A double apology:

I sincerely regret that both my nations, the United Kingdom and Sweden, saw fit to vote against the United States in the General Assembly. That the UK should have voted against its foremost ally is disgraceful. Sweden's foreign policy has been contemptible these eighty years; it has cringed before Naziism and Stalinism so it is no surprise that is bows before Islam.

 

[Fishking]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Only if you fail to ignore that Palestinians also have a claim to the land; which you have so you can validate your obsession with making it about Jews only. This is focusing you're doing, just because you didn't like 1 group of people mentioned along with several others is kind of funny. The fact that you're going off the deep end by more or less saying: Ahah! you really meant the Jews when discussing several groups of people is the only thing we're seeing through here. Everything else is you crystal balling into what I really meant.

You factually did mean the Jews. Again, I've never said "only" the Jews. That's a strawman you keep dragging out to knock down. As for the Palestinians, they were part of a coalition that lost multiple wars who's goal was the utter genocide of the Jews. They lost. They then openly supported terrorism by electing terrorist organizations. After all that, they can find homes in the wide open lands of the surrounding Arab countries.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

It already is a Jewish state, not an ethnostate, far from it, but it's not going to "turn" into anything just because the US recognized the eternal capital of the Jewish people as what it is.

Its not just a Jewish state. It's shared with others.

Why do Americans talk like this?

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Its not just a Jewish state. It's shared with others.

Why do Americans talk like this?

The fact that 25% of Israeli citizens aren't Jewish doesn't mean that the country isn't Jewish in its identity.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

It already is a Jewish state, not an ethnostate, far from it, but it's not going to "turn" into anything just because the US recognized the eternal capital of the Jewish people as what it is.

I am talking about what Americans think Israel should be and how they view it. If anything Americans should learn to stay out of other nation's and their own issues.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

The fact that 25% of Israeli citizens aren't Jewish doesn't mean that the country isn't Jewish in its identity.

Why do Americans talk like this? Again, a lot of Americans want it recognized as a Jewish state, as in an etnostate. It should be a democratic state or divided according to the two state solution. Moving the embassy isn't going to get the region closer to peace. It's going to cause tumoil, and this is happening because a lot of Americans share your views on existence of another country. Leave it to Israel or, at the very least, don't agitate the region.

This bs is going to lead to America spending tons of money and more of our armed forces getting put in harms way. This is completely stupid.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

A double apology:

I sincerely regret that both my nations, the United Kingdom and Sweden, saw fit to vote against the United States in the General Assembly. That the UK should have voted against its foremost ally is disgraceful. Sweden's foreign policy has been contemptible these eighty years; it has cringed before Naziism and Stalinism so it is no surprise that is bows before Islam.

They have sovergnity to not vote for the US