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Two black men arrested at Philly Starbucks for trespassing

holbritter said:
They were asked several times to leave, twice by the police before they were arrested. What to you think should have happened?
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For one thing, if I owned the place I'd fire the idiot who called the cops. If the guys were just sitting and waiting, not being loud and obnoxious or harassing other customers or anything, whoever called the cops has no future in that industry at all.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
No they weren't.

They were only asked to leave by the police when they arrived. Apparently a manager called the police without asking if they were buying. There is also a claim that a white woman had come in and asked for the toilet and was given the door code - without her ordering or paying for anything.

Why else would Starbucks be issuing grovelling apologies after this incident?
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Because people have lost the ability to think and we now live in a group think thug mentality society.
Where every feels they have to grovel at all the emotional wimps of the world.

If you don't grovel and beg then tpeople come out of the wood work.
 
Grand Mal said:
For one thing, if I owned the place I'd fire the idiot who called the cops. If the guys were just sitting and waiting, not being loud and obnoxious or harassing other customers or anything, whoever called the cops has no future in that industry at all.
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If I ask you to leave my business because you are not wanting to follow store policy and you refuse you bet I am calling the cops.
 
TheGoverness said:
I probably would've just gone ahead and purchased a coffee if I were them. They were waiting, so why not.

I don't really see the issue with Starbucks' actions here. Then again, when I sometimes run into a nearby gas station during a trip to use the restroom, I don't tend to buy anything after.
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If the place I walk into for the sake of using the restroom is a place where I stop fairly frequently and spend money, and they know me, I will do not feel the need to buy something just to use the restroom. If it's not a usual stop, I tend to buy a drink or a cup of coffee.
 
ludin said:
No it isn't the store had a no customer bathroom policy.
One of the guys asked to use the bathroom and it was for paying customers only.

He was asked to leave after that.
He refused to leave. The police asked them 3 times to leave and they wouldn't.

It wasn't racist or anything g else.
Plenty of businesses have no bathroom policies for non paying customers.
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So how do you justify a white women moments before being allowed to use the restroom minutes before? -witness-says-happened-during-phila-starbucks-arrests/3342444/?sf186989648=1

"Lauren said another woman had entered the Starbucks minutes before the men were arrested and was given the bathroom code without having to buy anything and that another person in the restaurant at the time of the incident."
 
ludin said:
Plenty of businesses have no bathroom policies for non-paying customers.
Those rules are not against philly law. The mayor is an idiot.
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Didn't realize you were versant on Philly law. Perhaps you should take it up with the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations.
 
ludin said:
If I ask you to leave my business because you are not wanting to follow store policy and you refuse you bet I am calling the cops.
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However, the men didn't know they were not following store policy. They were refused to use the restroom and then sat quietly in a corner minding their own business waiting on someone. The Manager never asked them to leave, just called the cops...They weren't asked to leave until the cops showed up.
 
ludin said:
If I ask you to leave my business because you are not wanting to follow store policy and you refuse you bet I am calling the cops.
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If I own the business and you call the cops because a couple guys are waiting to meet a friend there, pack your bags. You're outa there.
 
holbritter said:
They were asked several times to leave, twice by the police before they were arrested. What to you think should have happened?
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Nothing...Have some common sense. The two men were not disturbing anyone, no one complained about them being there, nor were they in any way a disturbance. I can't count the times I took my computer to star bucks with out ordering a thing.
 
JC Callender said:
How could I be disingenuous if it doesn't say that in the article in my OP? And what evidence where they lacking? Starbucks decided to drop charges.

Also, did they say that they were waiting for their friend before ordering? Because if they're just waiting for their friend to meet and not ordering anything, then Starbucks should have the right to tell them to leave.
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Greetings, JC. :2wave:

:agree: The business isn't there just to provide seating for people, so they should have ordered a coffee or something else to drink while they waited for their friend.
 
polgara said:
Greetings, JC. :2wave:

:agree: The business isn't there just to provide seating for people, so they should have ordered a coffee or something else to drink while they waited for their friend.
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Waiting at a place like Starbucks is not uncommon or unusual. They had no idea the manager even had an issue with them being there with out ordering anything....If the manager had an issue with them then why not go to them and inform them of that particular Starbucks policy before calling the cops?...
 
holbritter said:
They were asked several times to leave, twice by the police before they were arrested. What to you think should have happened?
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They were waiting to meet somebody. The manager shouldn't have called the cops when the told the manager they were there for a legit purpose and meeting. The cops shouldn't have arrested and detained them for 8 hours.
 
ludin said:
No it isn't the store had a no customer bathroom policy.
One of the guys asked to use the bathroom and it was for paying customers only.

He was asked to leave after that.
He refused to leave. The police asked them 3 times to leave and they wouldn't.

It wasn't racist or anything g else.
Plenty of businesses have no bathroom policies for non paying customers.
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Yet the managers behavior embarrassed the CEO, and the manger could very well lose their job. You act like the manger did nothing wrong by calling the cops and ordering they be removed, instead of allowing them to stay and have their meeting with the 3rd person on his way. There is no reason to assume nobody would but a coffe, because the 3rd person wasn't even there yet.

Trump supporters were treated like crap at a Starbucks, and I don't remember conservatives saying it was the businesses right.
 
LunaRose said:
They had no idea the manager even had an issue with them being there with out ordering anything....If the manager had an issue with them then why not go to them and inform them of that particular Starbucks policy before calling the cops?...
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Not much for your argument when you have to make crap up. The 2 individuals atorney disagrees with you.

The clip shows a man in a vest questioning why an arrest is taking place. Lauren A. Wimmer, defense attorney for the pair who was arrested, told BuzzFeed that the man in the vest is Andrew Yaffe, a friend who was meeting the men at Starbucks. She declined to give the names of her two clients.
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Wimmer told BuzzFeed that a white female manager at the store had asked the pair to leave when they came in and did not order anything. According to Wimmer, the men said they were waiting to meet someone, and the manager called the police.
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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...black-men-arrests_us_5ad22073e4b077c89ce91c74
 
Infinite Chaos said:
No they weren't.

They were only asked to leave by the police when they arrived. Apparently a manager called the police without asking if they were buying. There is also a claim that a white woman had come in and asked for the toilet and was given the door code - without her ordering or paying for anything.

Why else would Starbucks be issuing grovelling apologies after this incident?
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From the link in the OP
When police arrived, two Starbucks employees told them two men had asked to use the restroom but were told they couldn't because they hadn't purchased anything. The men allegedly refused to leave after being asked by Starbucks employees. Ross also said the two men refused to leave after being asked three times by police officers.

If you have a link to a different story, please provide.
 
Grand Mal said:
For one thing, if I owned the place I'd fire the idiot who called the cops. If the guys were just sitting and waiting, not being loud and obnoxious or harassing other customers or anything, whoever called the cops has no future in that industry at all.
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I agree. But he did, and they were asked to leave. What then?
 
LunaRose said:
Nothing...Have some common sense. The two men were not disturbing anyone, no one complained about them being there, nor were they in any way a disturbance. I can't count the times I took my computer to star bucks with out ordering a thing.
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Ok. Listen, I'm not agreeing they should have been asked to leave, but they were. At that point, management or whoever was in charge asked them to leave. They called the cops and the cops asked them to leave more than once. What then?
 
holbritter said:
From the link in the OP
When police arrived, two Starbucks employees told them two men had asked to use the restroom but were told they couldn't because they hadn't purchased anything. The men allegedly refused to leave after being asked by Starbucks employees. Ross also said the two men refused to leave after being asked three times by police officers.

If you have a link to a different story, please provide.
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Yeah, but that sounds better if you want to believe it only happened because they are black! Don't let facts get in the way!!!
 
SheWolf said:
They were waiting to meet somebody. The manager shouldn't have called the cops when the told the manager they were there for a legit purpose and meeting. The cops shouldn't have arrested and detained them for 8 hours.
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They probably shouldn't have been asked to leave in the first place, but they were.
The police would not have been called had they left when asked. They would not have been arrested had they not refused to leave after the police asked them to leave 3 times.

Their own actions caused the arrest.
 
Quoting gulfman...

" I feel the same way when I'm at the grocery store paying cash for my stuff and the person in front of me just used an EBT card "

The same here as many others feel the same.
And who pays ?
Us.
Getting back there are establishments permitting those who are buying can use the bathrooms and can sit down and enjoyed their meals. As for these dudes they asked for it.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Wow.

You are kidding right? Did you read the article referenced? From that article where do you get the impression that anybody is supposed to assume discrimination occurred?

"When police arrived, two Starbucks employees told them two men had asked to use the restroom but were told they couldn't because they hadn't purchased anything. The men allegedly refused to leave after being asked by Starbucks employees. Ross also said the two men refused to leave after being asked three times by police officers."

Do we know a single thing about the race of the employees who asked them to leave? No...not that it should matter in this day and age. Do we know, do YOU know, if the policy of not allowing use of the facilities without purchase is uniformly exercied or not? No.

From the article, were they arrested because they were black or because they were trespassing and loitering on private property after being asked 5 times to leave?

For you, for anyone from the description and evidence supplied to make the kangaroo leap to the automatic default of racism is unsupportable.

Convince me from the facts on scene in this article. And do not insult my intelligence by use of the politically correct supplications by the pols much after the fact.

And NO, I wont be bullied into a herd mentality. Why would you start off trying that method anyhow?
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Can you cite a single time that a couple of white folk would be harassed and ultimately arrested while waiting for a friend before they made a purchase at a restaurant?


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SheWolf said:
Read some more articles. A lot more information has been released, and I think it's clear that these two men were treated far worse than the situation called for. Also, they told the manager they were there for a meeting, and they were. Instead being allowed to wait for their real estate agent and friend to show up, they got arrested.
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I am/was responding to the OP and article referenced. I have no specific obligation to read additional articles.

But since this is debate and you read additional articles

1. What was the store policy regarding purchase vs usage of the facilities?
2. The woman that was given the bathroom code, had she been in before, either earlier in the day before the witness arrived or was she a regular paying customer? Perhaps a friend or relative?
3. Ditto wth the other person just sitting there, apparently also not purchasing at that point
4. What race were the employees?
5. Were the store employees all female and
6. What are the crime statistics in that neighborhood
7. Did the employees know these two, was there any history?
8. At least one of the policemen involved was distinctly black in the video, seemed to be supervising the arrests, would he be considered racist as well?
9. If not buying anything and asked to leave, why not comply and wait for the friend to arrive outside. Thats what I would have done.
10. Does the store have the right to ask any non paying customer to leave and expect the request be complied with?
11. What was the relation of the witness to the two individuals?
12. If you had been asked to leave first by the employees and then the police, what would you have done and why?
13. If you refused to leave, do you think you might, too, have been arrested?

All pertinent questions to get at real motivations here.

To sutomatically jump straight to racism here could be considered rather prejudiced itself, could it not?
 
holbritter said:
They were asked several times to leave, twice by the police before they were arrested. What to you think should have happened?
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I suspect that 1-two white guys wouldn’t be asked to leave while they waited for their companion and 2-responding officers would hear two white people say “hey, we are just waiting for our friend to order” and would likely go tell the store workers to relax. Now I say that because in my 56 years I have on countless occasions waited in coffee shops and restaurants for a third or fourth party before ordering and never once been approached.


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holbritter said:
I agree. But he did, and they were asked to leave. What then?
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If it was me, I wouldn't leave. I'd make it as hard for the Starbucks as I could.
Would you have left?
 
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