Two black men arrested at Philly Starbucks for trespassing

[danarhea]

If I ask you to leave my business because you are not wanting to follow store policy and you refuse you bet I am calling the cops.

But there IS the claim (missed it when I read it the first time) that a white woman was allowed to use the restroom without buying anything. If that claim is true, then kicking the 2 black guys out is nothing but racist, and those 2 men should sue Starbucks.

 

[holbritter]

I suspect that 1-two white guys wouldn’t be asked to leave while they waited for their companion and 2-responding officers would hear two white people say “hey, we are just waiting for our friend to order” and would likely go tell the store workers to relax. Now I say that because in my 56 years I have on countless occasions waited in coffee shops and restaurants for a third or fourth party before ordering and never once been approached.


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Ok, but they were. What then? No one seems to want to answer that particular question.

 

[buck]

Can you cite a single time that a couple of white folk would be harassed and ultimately arrested while waiting for a friend before they made a purchase at a restaurant?


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Happened to me, when I was younger. Mentioned it earlier in the topic. Me and my white friend were both asked to leave and had the cops called on us who asked us to leave. Guess what? We left and waited out in the storm for our ride. Had we not left and felt the privelage these two did, we probably would have been arrested too.

 

[holbritter]

If it was me, I wouldn't leave. I'd make it as hard for the Starbucks as I could.
Would you have left?

I'd bitch about it, but I'd leave. It's their business and their rules. And when the cops came and ask me to leave 3 times, well, they would only have to ask once. Being kicked out of Starbucks isn't a hill I want to defend and get arrested for. That's just stupid.

 

[holbritter]

But there IS the claim (missed it when I read it the first time) that a white woman was allowed to use the restroom without buying anything. If that claim is true, then kicking the 2 black guys out is nothing but racist, and those 2 men should sue Starbucks.

Yup, and that would be my way of handling it.

 

[Grand Mal]

I'd bitch about it, but I'd leave. It's their business and their rules. And when the cops came and ask me to leave 3 times, well, they would only have to ask once. Being kicked out of Starbucks isn't a hill I want to defend and get arrested for. That's just stupid.

Well, maybe I'm just more inclined to confrontation than you are. I'd keep my seat and dare them to call the cops, and when the cops showed up I'd dare them to arrest me. Trespassing? That's a bull**** call, and everyone involved knows it. I bet if the cops didn't know it before it was explained to them, in no uncertain terms. Will be again, too, if any prosecuter brings this to a judges attention.

 

[Daisy]

What do i think? The mayor is an idiot...

 

[SheWolf]

They probably shouldn't have been asked to leave in the first place, but they were.
The police would not have been called had they left when asked. They would not have been arrested had they not refused to leave after the police asked them to leave 3 times.

Their own actions caused the arrest.

So it's all their fault... lol... The manager should lose their job.

 

[ludin]

However, the men didn't know they were not following store policy. They were refused to use the restroom and then sat quietly in a corner minding their own business waiting on someone. The Manager never asked them to leave, just called the cops...They weren't asked to leave until the cops showed up.

You didn't read the article I posted did you? Nope.
They were told no buying no restroom.

 

[ludin]

So it's all their fault... lol... The manager should lose their job.

Nope no one should lose their job. The store was following policy.

 

[ludin]

Yup, and that would be my way of handling it.

That would be a hard thing to prove.

 

[SheWolf]

I am/was responding to the OP and article referenced. I have no specific obligation to read additional articles.

But since this is debate and you read additional articles

1. What was the store policy regarding purchase vs usage of the facilities?
2. The woman that was given the bathroom code, had she been in before, either earlier in the day before the witness arrived or was she a regular paying customer? Perhaps a friend or relative?
3. Ditto wth the other person just sitting there, apparently also not purchasing at that point
4. What race were the employees?
5. Were the store employees all female and
6. What are the crime statistics in that neighborhood
7. Did the employees know these two, was there any history?
8. At least one of the policemen involved was distinctly black in the video, seemed to be supervising the arrests, would he be considered racist as well?
9. If not buying anything and asked to leave, why not comply and wait for the friend to arrive outside. Thats what I would have done.
10. Does the store have the right to ask any non paying customer to leave and expect the request be complied with?
11. What was the relation of the witness to the two individuals?
12. If you had been asked to leave first by the employees and then the police, what would you have done and why?
13. If you refused to leave, do you think you might, too, have been arrested?

All pertinent questions to get at real motivations here.

To sutomatically jump straight to racism here could be considered rather prejudiced itself, could it not?

You can answer all these questions by doing a little research and reading some more articles. I know your not obligated to do so, but doing that could save you some embarrassment and spare you from wasting your time by writing a 13 point post lol

 

[ludin]

But there IS the claim (missed it when I read it the first time) that a white woman was allowed to use the restroom without buying anything. If that claim is true, then kicking the 2 black guys out is nothing but racist, and those 2 men should sue Starbucks.

I don't know I can't verify.
It is far from racist.

Could have been a new employee that didn't know the policy.
Happens all the time.

You would have to prove that they only single out black people. One instance is not enough proof of anything.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Can you cite a single time that a couple of white folk would be harassed and ultimately arrested while waiting for a friend before they made a purchase at a restaurant?


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Nobody I know, of any race, would be remaining in a store after being asked to leave by management AND the police. Especially if they werent paying customers. Would you have remained after being requested to leave by management? If you didnt and law enforcement arrived on scene, would you still refuse? Would you expect to be arrested if you didnt comply with a lawful order?

If thats not a no, no and a yes...well then we have no debate as that would be unreasonable stance for a person, no matter your race.

We didnt just recently invent these crimes, you understand?. When you dont have permission and are expressly asked to vacate the premises and you simply will not, guess who is in the wrong? You think maybe back in 1300, and since, maybe some white guys in England France and the Netherlands might have been arrested?

Trespass
c. 1300, "transgress in some active manner, commit an aggressive offense, to sin," from Old French trespasser "pass beyond or across, cross, traverse; infringe, violate," from tres- "beyond" (from Latin trans; see trans-) + passer "go by, pass" (see pass (v.)). Meaning "enter unlawfully" is first attested in forest laws of Scottish Parliament (c. 1455).

Loitering 1300-50; Middle English loteren, loytren, perhaps < Middle Dutch loteren to stagger, totter; compare Dutch leuteren to dawdle. To linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to "move along."

Before you read my link, guess what race are they. Same state, btw.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-feed-the-homeless/?utm_term=.2014b0d84c49

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ If you have a link to a different story, please provide.

I did. You even quoted my post which contained the link.

Selected highlights -

a manager escalated the situation by calling police instead of asking the men to buy something or leave.

another woman had entered the Starbucks minutes before the men were arrested and was given the bathroom code without having to buy anything and that another person in the restaurant at the time of the incident "announced that she had been sitting at Starbucks for the past couple of hours without buying anything."

 

[SheWolf]

Nope no one should lose their job. The store was following policy.

Lol... then why is the CEO embarrassed and offering to personally apologize to these men? The mangers behaviour is clearly not endorsed by the CEO

 

[holbritter]

So it's all their fault... lol... The manager should lose their job.

Guess personal responsibility isn't in your vocabulary.

 

[holbritter]

I did. You even quoted my post which contained the link.

Selected highlights -

Thank you. I didnt see it.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

You can answer all these questions by doing a little research and reading some more articles. I know your not obligated to do so, but doing that could save you some embarrassment and spare you from wasting your time by writing a 13 point post lol

The post is wasted on you, thats proven. Fortunately I dont write for you. These are the obvious first questions one would need ask and have answered prior to shooting off ones mouth in a racist manner while jumping to an absolutely unsupportable conclusion.

I think that the laziness of thought reflected in your posts demonstrates why we continue to have major problems. Such shallowness, without digging and just succumbing to faulty and incomplete reasoning calling someone racist is why the word has lost its power.

And no amount of research will give me your answers to # 12 and 13.

With that post you have demonstrated your worthiness of future communications... I havent a clue as to your race, but I damn well will be far more disciminating about my responses to you in the future.

LOL

 

[ludin]

Lol... then why is the CEO embarrassed and offering to personally apologize to these men? The mangers behaviour is clearly not endorsed by the CEO

Because of the people mentality in this thread.
Which has infected our society to an extreme level.

It is damage control to keep the she hounds at bay.
It shows the stupidity of our society honestly.

I mean look at you. You want to ruin someone's life for following a store policy.
How many company policies do you break in a day. Should we demand you to be fired?

We have entered a new dark age. One I don't see us coming out of any time soon.

 

[SheWolf]

Guess personal responsibility isn't in your vocabulary.

Personal responsibility isn't a matter of treating one party unfairly and failing to criticize the others. You're not about personal responsibility for every party in this situation.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Because sensationalist news reporting is the thing to do.
Blow things up and call it racism and you have 1 million new clicks to your
Site or page.

The other customesr who filmed it made the very point that being white, they had never been arrested while using the wifi or waiting for a friend to join them. That's not sensational, it's the norm, unless you're black.

 

[SheWolf]

The post is wasted on you, thats proven. Fortunately I dont write for you. These are the obvious first questions one would need ask and have answered prior to shooting off ones mouth in a racist manner while jumping to an absolutely unsupportable conclusion.

I think that the laziness of thought reflected in your posts demonstrates why we continue to have major problems. Such shallowness, without digging and just succumbing to faulty and incomplete reasoning calling someone racist is why the word has lost its power.

And no amount of research will give me your answers to # 12 and 13.

With that post you have demonstrated your worthiness of future communications... I havent a clue as to your race, but I damn well will be far more disciminating about my responses to you in the future.

LOL

I haven't called anybody a racist in this thtead. I haven't even questioned nor mentioned your race, like you just did mine.

 

[SheWolf]

Because of the people mentality in this thread.
Which has infected our society to an extreme level.

It is damage control to keep the she hounds at bay.
It shows the stupidity of our society honestly.

I mean look at you. You want to ruin someone's life for following a store policy.
How many company policies do you break in a day. Should we demand you to be fired?

We have entered a new dark age. One I don't see us coming out of any time soon.

I don't want to ruin anybody's life. Do you? The CEO can and probably will fire the manager. That's not ruining their life. If the manger is able to learn something from the situation, then they improve themselves. That goes for all three parties in this situation. I favor personal responsibility over victimhood.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I suspect that 1-two white guys wouldn’t be asked to leave while they waited for their companion and 2-responding officers would hear two white people say “hey, we are just waiting for our friend to order” and would likely go tell the store workers to relax. Now I say that because in my 56 years I have on countless occasions waited in coffee shops and restaurants for a third or fourth party before ordering and never once been approached.


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We can trade anecdotes all day. You have your own set of prejudices to deal with and you have yet to answer MY questions.

Why? Because you know you havent the facts and are disingenuous besides being wrong in any event.