Two black men arrested at Philly Starbucks for trespassing

[Infinite Chaos]

~ You want to ruin someone's life for following a store policy ~

How do you know the manager followed policy? You haven't read my link have you?

a manager escalated the situation by calling police instead of asking the men to buy something or leave.

another woman had entered the Starbucks minutes before the men were arrested and was given the bathroom code without having to buy anything and that another person in the restaurant at the time of the incident "announced that she had been sitting at Starbucks for the past couple of hours without buying anything."

I ask what I asked previously in another post: what policy is it where a manager doesn't follow up with people in the shop and ask if they want to buy? What policy is it where a citizen is allowed to use the toilet without buying anything first but these two men were not?

And why did Starbucks apologise to the two men?

 

[holbritter]

Personal responsibility isn't a matter of treating one party unfairly and failing to criticize the others. You're not about personal responsibility for every party in this situation.

Hello mirror!

 

[ludin]

I don't want to ruin anybody's life. Do you? The CEO can and probably will fire the manager. That's not ruining their life. If the manger is able to learn something from the situation, then they improve themselves. That goes for all three parties in this situation. I favor personal responsibility over victimhood.

What do you mean you don't want to ruin someone's life. YOu said someone should be fired. How the hell does that not ruin someone's life?
No i doubt they will fire the manager. There is no reason to fire the manager.

If a policy is not working correctly at the store then you fix the policy.
There is no reason to fire anyone.

As i said. your mentality type has infected this society to the extreme.
It is a sad day and why we have entered a new dark age.

 

[VanceMack]

Happened to me, when I was younger. Mentioned it earlier in the topic. Me and my white friend were both asked to leave and had the cops called on us who asked us to leave. Guess what? We left and waited out in the storm for our ride. Had we not left and felt the privelage these two did, we probably would have been arrested too.

I'll take your example at face value, but I simply have never seen it as an issue. At the very least its foolish business. And the fact that their third party showed up WHILE they were being arrested and they still arrested them? Sorry...thats just abusive.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I don't want to ruin anybody's life. Do you? The CEO can and probably will fire the manager. That's not ruining their life. If the manger is able to learn something from the situation, then they improve themselves. That goes for all three parties in this situation. I favor personal responsibility over victimhood.

Just your luck, Ive run outta duct tape and my heads about to explode.

Talk about MIA, did you even read the OP? The thread is purely about the arrest made either being about racism or not. To tiptoe around it all the while virtue signalling to those of the herd mentaliy here, bulls who ve found this pasture to give in plentitude of their copious fertilizer...

Then when called on it, trying to weasle out is...typical here I guess. I only mentioned race to you in mentioning race having not a thing to do with just how slack and lacking in mental effort the response posts have been and to which was my effort wasted... except to those actually cognitively engaged on site.

But I wish you good luck, but better to improve ones skills, in your future debates.

 

[VanceMack]

Ok, but they were. What then? No one seems to want to answer that particular question.

If presented with a situation where your choice is to leave or stand by a cause and get arrested...I reckon they made their choice.

Simple solution I think for police. Stop allowing themselves to be an enforcement arm of someone elses business policies.

 

[Mr Person]

It looks like two black men wanted to use the restroom at Starbucks and were denied because they weren't purchasing anything. They then sat down and were asked to leave since they weren't making a purchase and they refused. The police were called and asked the men to leave and they again refused, so the police arrested them. Now there's a public outcry of racism, but what if that particular Starbucks has a problem with people loitering or conducting business without making purchases and they're taking up valuable space that could be used for paying customers, wouldn't that be a problem? Wouldn't if be fair to expect someone to purchase something when using their establishment?

Philly's mayor, defending the two black men, says that Starbucks is "not just a place to buy a cup of coffee, but a place to meet up with friends or family members, or to get some work done", but is it really up to the mayor to assume that Starbucks should provide an office or hang out place free of charge or purchases? Maybe the mayors office and home could be a place for the public to meet up with friends and get some work done? And is it really impossible to see that two white guys could be asked to leave as well under the same circumstances?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-on-controversial-arrest-of-2-black-men-in-ph

What do you think?

I think a complete picture is helpful. If we're playing fair, we also doubt the employees, since at this point the CEO has said that calling the police was the wrong thing to do. So the employees are going to want to cover their asses.



Your link also indicates that this does not and did not happen to other loiterers:

Onlookers in the background are incredulous.

"What did they do?" one man asks. "They didn't do anything," a woman responds. "I saw the entire thing."

@Starbucks The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything. They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing. pic.twitter.com/0U4Pzs55Ci
— Melissa DePino (@missydepino) April 12, 2018




Seems rather messed up regardless of what might objectively seem reasonable if the a bunch of people were hanging out without buying anything, but only two of them were asked to leave. Then, had the cops called.





Sounds like these events played out like a DP thread....

 

[buck]

I'll take your example at face value, but I simply have never seen it as an issue. At the very least its foolish business. And the fact that their third party showed up WHILE they were being arrested and they still arrested them? Sorry...thats just abusive.

Probably because when it happens to a white person, it doesn't make the news. No one cares.

Like me, most people are asked and they leave. Especially when the cops get there.

These two individuals didn't take it like most would have and wanted to make a scene and claim racism.

 

[JC Callender]

They were patrons waiting on a third person and patron, so it was dumb, stupid, and rude for Starbucks to tell them to leave and have arrested. Look how this has ended up for Starbucks.

Actually, they weren't patrons, that's why Starbucks asked them to leave. They wanted to use Starbucks as a restroom and meeting place rather than as paying customers, which is what a patron is.

 

[Superfly]

I often go to coffee shops like Starbucks, or this little hole in the wall coffee shop near me to meet friends, or to find a quiet place to study.

When I go, I always buy a cup of coffee. It's kind of like the price of admission, in my opinion.

A couple of dollars could have saved them a lot of trouble.

 

[TheGoverness]

They were patrons waiting on a third person and patron, so it was dumb, stupid, and rude for Starbucks to tell them to leave and have arrested. Look how this has ended up for Starbucks.

They were not patrons. They did not buy anything.

 

[VanceMack]

I often go to coffee shops like Starbucks, or this little hole in the wall coffee shop near me to meet friends, or to find a quiet place to study.

When I go, I always buy a cup of coffee. It's kind of like the price of admission, in my opinion.

A couple of dollars could have saved them a lot of trouble.

They would have. They were waiting for their third party, who arrived while the police were still there.

 

[SheWolf]

Hello mirror!

Make your point.

 

[SheWolf]

What do you mean you don't want to ruin someone's life. YOu said someone should be fired. How the hell does that not ruin someone's life?
No i doubt they will fire the manager. There is no reason to fire the manager.

If a policy is not working correctly at the store then you fix the policy.
There is no reason to fire anyone.

As i said. your mentality type has infected this society to the extreme.
It is a sad day and why we have entered a new dark age.

It doesn't ruin a person's life to fire them.

 

[Superfly]

They would have. They were waiting for their third party, who arrived while the police were still there.

So? Buy the coffee while you wait. Their arguments would have been a lot stronger had they done that. I meet people all the time at Starbucks. I don't wait for them to get there to buy coffee. I buy it and nurse it while I wait. I mean, what happens if you finish it before they get there? *gasp* Buy another cup? Oh, the humanity.

 

[JC Callender]

I think a complete picture is helpful. If we're playing fair, we also doubt the employees, since at this point the CEO has said that calling the police was the wrong thing to do. So the employees are going to want to cover their asses.



Your link also indicates that this does not and did not happen to other loiterers:

Onlookers in the background are incredulous.

"What did they do?" one man asks. "They didn't do anything," a woman responds. "I saw the entire thing."

@Starbucks The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything. They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing. pic.twitter.com/0U4Pzs55Ci
— Melissa DePino (@missydepino) April 12, 2018




Seems rather messed up regardless of what might objectively seem reasonable if the a bunch of people were hanging out without buying anything, but only two of them were asked to leave. Then, had the cops called.





Sounds like these events played out like a DP thread....

If you owned a Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, wouldn't you want to enact a policy to get people to make purchases if they're going to use your facilities?

 

[Mr Person]

If you owned a Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, wouldn't you want to enact a policy to get people to make purchases if they're going to use your facilities?

If I owned Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, I wouldn't select two out of "all these people" who aren't paying and then ask just those two to leave.

 

[JC Callender]

If I owned Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, I wouldn't select two out of "all these people" who aren't paying and then ask just those two to leave.

But Philly's black police chief, who feels Starbucks did nothing wrong, said that one of his own Sergeants was denied bathroom use at Starbucks another time. Would you like the link?

 

[enderpotato00]

Progressives be like....

 

[Mr Person]

But Philly's black police chief, who feels Starbucks did nothing wrong, said that one of his own Sergeants was denied bathroom use at Starbucks another time. Would you like the link?

You asked me: If you owned a Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, wouldn't you want to enact a policy to get people to make purchases if they're going to use your facilities?

I responded: If I owned Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, I wouldn't select two out of "all these people" who aren't paying and then ask just those two to leave.


If this thread does not come with an agenda, that is, if you really wanted to know what people think about a situation where a whole bunch of people are sitting there without having bought anything but only two were asked to leave, then I don't know why you're trying to press me about. I answered your question. To ignore my repeated answers and then press me about what a BLACK police chief says doesn't make any sense.....again, not unless this thread came with an unspoken agenda.

But it does come with an agenda, doesn't it? That's why when I answer your question by saying I certainly wouldn't ask just 2 out of X>2 people to leave, if the X>2 people are all not buying things, you respond by telling me what the BLACK police chief says. But I didn't say anything about race. All I said was I wouldn't ask just two out of X>2 people to leave.

Either ask them all or ask none. But don't ask just two of them, regardless of "just the two"'s races.

 

[VanceMack]

So? Buy the coffee while you wait. Their arguments would have been a lot stronger had they done that. I meet people all the time at Starbucks. I don't wait for them to get there to buy coffee. I buy it and nurse it while I wait. I mean, what happens if you finish it before they get there? *gasp* Buy another cup? Oh, the humanity.

This is silly. People go to coffee shops and restaurants and wait for third parties literally all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Grand Mal]

Probably because when it happens to a white person, it doesn't make the news. No one cares.

Like me, most people are asked and they leave. Especially when the cops get there.

These two individuals didn't take it like most would have and wanted to make a scene and claim racism.

Here's a scenario. You and your bud are goint to meet somone at Starbuck's. You get there before him, you want to pee but you're told you can't because you haven't bought a coffee yet.
---Now, right there, if it's me I've decided I'm not spending a dime in this place, but I've got to meet someone so...
Okay, to continue. You and your bud sit down to wait for your friend. We don't know if the next part happened but just for argument's sake let's say the manager comes out from behind the counter and asks if you're going to buy something or not.
---Now, right there I'm getting a little defensive. I'm wondering why this guy is putting pressure on me.
To continue. And again, we don't know if this happened. Indications are it didn't, but for the sake of argument you say no, you're not going to buy anything just yet, you're waiting for someone first. The manager threatens to call the cops if you don't leave.
Are you saying you'd get up and leave?

Me, I say, "Go ahead, I dare you to call the cops." And when the cops come, I say, "Go ahead, I dare you to arrest me." And I do everything I can, use every resource available to me to get back at Starbuck's generally and that manager personally.

edit- And the cops who showed abysmal judgement in handling a ridiculously simple situation.

 

[JC Callender]

You asked me: If you owned a Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, wouldn't you want to enact a policy to get people to make purchases if they're going to use your facilities?

I responded: If I owned Starbucks and realized that all of these people weren't paying for anything but just meeting friends and doing business, I wouldn't select two out of "all these people" who aren't paying and then ask just those two to leave.


If this thread does not come with an agenda, that is, if you really wanted to know what people think about a situation where a whole bunch of people are sitting there without having bought anything but only two were asked to leave, then I don't know why you're trying to press me about.

But it does come with an agenda, doesn't it? That's why when I answer your question by saying I certainly wouldn't ask just 2 out of X>2 people to leave, if the X>2 people are all not buying things, you respond by telling me what the BLACK police chief says. But I didn't say anything about race. All I said was I wouldn't ask just two out of X>2 people to leave.

Do you believe this is a case of racism? Because I don't, and it seems like this is what we're arguing about. If you don't care about the race but simply feel like two people shouldn't have been picked out, well my question to you would be to ask why not? Do you know that there were other people in Starbucks not purchasing at that time who weren't asked to leave?

 

[Mr Person]

I often go to coffee shops like Starbucks, or this little hole in the wall coffee shop near me to meet friends, or to find a quiet place to study.

When I go, I always buy a cup of coffee. It's kind of like the price of admission, in my opinion.

A couple of dollars could have saved them a lot of trouble.

The thing that bothers me about this is that apparently multiple other people at the scene didn't buy anything either, at least if the article is to be believed. If that's true, the employees should have either asked everyone to leave not just the two, regardless of what the motivation was. (Unless they were making a disturbance or something).

 

[Mr Person]

Do you believe this is a case of racism? Because I don't, and it seems like this is what we're arguing about. If you don't care about the race but simply feel like two people shouldn't have been picked out, well my question to you would be to ask why not? Do you know that there were other people in Starbucks not purchasing at that time who weren't asked to leave?

I have no idea. I deliberately avoided wading into those waters because I know what happens on DP. Suggest racism or even subconscious racial motivation, and everyone starts screaming about the race card; then the thread goes nowhere good. I don't know the past of any of the people involved in this story. I don't know if it's a complete report on what happened. Etc.


If the article is to be believed, then it seems like greater than 6 people were loitering without having bought anything, but only these two were asked to leave. Everyone was shocked when the police got there. I don't recall reading any reference to their having made a disturbance or some such.

So from my perspective, no matter what the motivation was, it was a bad call. Either you ask all non-paying customers to leave or you don't ask any of them to do so. Better yet, before asking them to leave, first ask if they intend to buy anything. Others here say the guys were just waiting for a third person. But you don't just say, either explicitly or via actions, "yeah, you two need to go. The rest are cool."



Granted, it's never a good idea to make a scene when cops are simply asking you to move - there's a tendency to get beaten up a bit and charged for disorderly conduct/resisting, though fortunately that didn't happen here. But it's still a ridiculous situation no matter who is what race.