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Trump uses Defense Production Act to require GM to make ventilators

dirtpoorchris said:
It appears its worse than we thought. GM tried to sell 7,500 ventilators for 1 billion dollars during a time of crisis... Thats 130,000$ for 1 god damn ventilator.
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And where did you get that from?
 
calamity said:
Am I the only person here who is aware that GM does not know **** about manufacturing ventilators?
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Most likely. I have no idea why so many idiots think an automobile factory can magically transform to make ventilators.
 
TomFitz said:
Most likely. I have no idea why so many idiots think an automobile factory can magically transform to make ventilators.
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Because they’re working with a ventilator manufacturer to retool their factory. Not magical.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Oversimplification. The motor and the tank in each case is the difference. If you want to save money using a welding oxygen tank in any medical use, you will quickly learn the difference.
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Actually that isn't the case. I had that direct from the manufacturer's rep for the suction equipment and from the commercial gas dealer.
 
Napoleon said:
GM developed a partnership with ventilator manufacturer Ventec Life Systems that turned out to be a scheme to fleece taxpayers. Their original commitment of 20,000 at-cost ventilators became 7,500 ventilators for $1 billion.
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And you have a problem with "Capitalism In Action"?

What are you, some sort of left-wing, socialist, liberal, pinko, commie, nut case?

PS - Your figures work out to a unit cost of $133,333.33 which just might be an appropriate cost if the manufacturer is required to build a totally new production facility on an "IMMEDIATE RUSH" basis and will have no use for the production facility once the original sale has been completed. Or did you think that GM was going to eat the total cost of building the production facilities and then only charge the original unit cost of $50,000.

PPS - Did you know that a Puritan Bennett™ 980 ventilator retails at between $32,000 and $48,000 depending on how many optional gongs and whistles you want to hang on it AND that that price is for when there is no "bidding war" going on)?
 
RAMOSS said:
They have unused production that can deal with electronics in addition.
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Almost EVERY manufacturing enterprise has "unused production (ability) that can deal with electronics in addition", of course SOMEONE has to pay for the cost of conversion and new machinery. If you want to purchase (for use by your own family members) ventilators manufactured by untrained people using unsuitable machinery and in facilities that are as "surgically sanitary" as the facilities used by the people whose business is manufacturing ventilators, I pity your family members.
 
apdst said:
The unions are going to make out like bandits.
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Quite right!!!

Congress should IMMEDIATELY pass a law that taxes those rapacious union members 100% of anything that they make in a weel over and above what their average weekly earnings were over the past 106 weeks.

Not only that, but Congress should IMMEDIATELY pass a law making it a capital offence to refuse to work overtime for no pay.

That'll teach those left-wing, socialist, liberal, pinko, commies what **F*R*E*E*D*O*M** is all about.
 
MSgt said:
But a product that they have been told to produce. Fascism is another word to look up while trying to deny that this is socialism. If it is government sponsored, especially with the people's taxes, it is socialism.

Free market is also a term to look up. Trump is clearly pushing government into private business and today's bail-outs, which are merely a hold over from "too big to fail," hardly promote the cherished idea of free market competitiveness. Virus or not, according to the theme, companies should succeed or fail on their own.

Now, I'm not arguing for or against this. These are crazy times and I believe that government has a place when it comes to leading its tax-paying citizens through it. But all of what is going on is traditionally very Democrat, not Republican. All of what is going on has been an anti- platform for Trump since before he was even elected. Yet, conservatives are cheering it on. How in hell do people feel that they can denigrate for years and years and then suddenly flip-flop without the rest of us laughing? And make no mistake. Directly after this crisis becomes history, all of these same conservatives will default right back to their false arguments about socialism, fascism, and free markets.
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You pose an interesting question, one which I believe is best directed to Winston Smith.
 
Decypher said:
Sounds like Comrade Trump is riding roughshod over those capitalist dogs at GM. No one said the revolution would be smooth running. Besides that quote from GM reminds me of the Stakhanovites:
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If GM produces 199,998 "masks" and 3 "ventilators" per week then it would be producing "tens of thousands of masks and ventilators per week" - wouldn't it?

[ASIDE 199,998 "masks" would per week would be roughly enough masks for every American to wear one for approximately 6 seconds per week. To allow every American to wear a mask for three hours per day would require around 2,519,974,800 masks per week. (Is the actual size of the problem starting to become a bit clearer to you?)]
 
iguanaman said:
Cuomo said companies are asking $45,000 now. Capitalism at its best, pure unadulterated GREED.
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Prior to the crisis, the retail price for a Puritan Bennett™ 980 ventilator ranged between $32,000 and $48,000 depending on the number of gongs and whistles you wanted to hang on it.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
GM still owes taxpayers 11 billion dollars from their bankruptcy bailout. If they wanna fleece us during a time of crisis and there is a way for government to force GM to stop profit seeking instead of producing at cost; thanks to them accepting bailouts i'm all for it.
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"Technically, GM has repaid its big bailout loan from the U.S. government. ... Many are surprised to hear that General Motors (NYSE:GM) already has paid back its bailout loans from the U.S. government. GM has completely satisfied the terms of the deals it made with the U.S. Treasury back in 2009"
[source]

Admittedly the shares that the government had agreed to accept as part payment didn't sell for as much as the government thought that they were going to sell for, but that is a risk that EVERYONE who buys shares in anticipation of a rise in price has to pay.

It's called "Capitalism In Action".
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
If GM produces 199,998 "masks" and 3 "ventilators" per week then it would be producing "tens of thousands of masks and ventilators per week" - wouldn't it?

[ASIDE 199,998 "masks" would per week would be roughly enough masks for every American to wear one for approximately 6 seconds per week. To allow every American to wear a mask for three hours per day would require around 2,519,974,800 masks per week. (Is the actual size of the problem starting to become a bit clearer to you?)]
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Did you mean to reply to me? Not sure what your comment has to do with mine.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Prior to the crisis, the retail price for a Puritan Bennett™ 980 ventilator ranged between $32,000 and $48,000 depending on the number of gongs and whistles you wanted to hang on it.
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That must be a Cadillac model or Govts. don't pay retail.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
And you have a problem with "the protection of intellectual property rights"?

Why?

Is it because you are an agent for the Chinese?
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In a global pandemic I don't give two ****s about medical patents.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Actually that isn't the case. I had that direct from the manufacturer's rep for the suction equipment and from the commercial gas dealer.
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If you want to save money using a welding oxygen tank in any medical use, you will quickly learn the difference.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
If you want to save money using a welding oxygen tank in any medical use, you will quickly learn the difference.
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Feel free to have it your way.

I prefer to take the advice of those actually in the field.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Feel free to have it your way.

I prefer to take the advice of those actually in the field.
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Inventing sources is not a way to have a debate:

"The difference between the four various oxygen grades, (Aviation, Medical, Welding and Research) is not in the quality of the oxygen but rather, the custody chain of the tanks. "

Is Medical Oxygen Different
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
IOW "I don't care about the law if breaking it means that there is something in it for me." - right?
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If that "something in it for me" is literally saving my life? Absolutely, yes. What, you'd refuse a ventilator and ****ing die rather than trivially harm GM's profit margin? Jesus Christ. Would you make that decision for a family member too?
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Inventing sources is not a way to have a debate:
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In my 70+ years I have dealt with many people in many occupations under many different circumstances. Some of those were actual face-to-face business dealings on not simply on line forums.

AliHajiSheik said:
"The difference between the four various oxygen grades, (Aviation, Medical, Welding and Research) is not in the quality of the oxygen but rather, the custody chain of the tanks. "

Is Medical Oxygen Different
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Which differs from my statement that the contents are identical, and that the containers are identical - how?

HINT - "Not one damn bit."
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
In my 70+ years I have dealt with many people in many occupations under many different circumstances. Some of those were actual face-to-face business dealings on not simply on line forums.



Which differs from my statement that the contents are identical, and that the containers are identical - how?

HINT - "Not one damn bit."
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Your face to face sources don't translate well to an online forum.

I said that you were oversimplifying the distinction, not that the separate statements about cylinders and oxygen were incorrect. Not mixing the uses and having a chain of custody for their medical use is the distinction.
 
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