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Trump: 'Robert E. Lee was a great general'

Just the opposite, to say the slaves should be free but not the south is hypocritcal. Im saying BOTH should be free.

But the South explicitly went to war to prevent slaves from becoming free. There was no middle ground. Either slavery would end, or the south who become its own country. Thankfully, the Confederacy—-and slavery—-were crushed.

And considering that the south controlled the goverment for twenty-thirty years up until Lincoln, arguing that they “weren’t free” is pretty hilarious.
 
Just want you to continue filling the internet and any other media, with your fascist BS.
Please continue.

:lamo

Oh, so debunking your beloved myths is “fascist bs” now?
 
:lamo

Oh, so debunking your beloved myths is “fascist bs” now?

What myth?
You contend that Lee was a bastard...essentially.
I contend that bastard or not, he's a significant person in American history, there are allot of people who still revere his memory, that his service to the USA was important enough to warrant the monocle "noble", and finally...that Trump was quite correct when he called Lee a great general.
It is a basic tactic of fascism, to alter history to suit the outlook preferred by the fascist oppressor.
Hitler did it. So did Stalin. I think the question now has to be...
What are you condoning here Tiger?
 
But the South explicitly went to war to prevent slaves from becoming free. There was no middle ground. Either slavery would end, or the south who become its own country. Thankfully, the Confederacy—-and slavery—-were crushed.

And considering that the south controlled the goverment for twenty-thirty years up until Lincoln, arguing that they “weren’t free” is pretty hilarious.

And the north went to war to keep the south from being free. I think killing a million people to 'preserve the union' is pretty obvious that they werent free.
 
What myth?
You contend that Lee was a bastard...essentially.
I contend that bastard or not, he's a significant person in American history, there are allot of people who still revere his memory, that his service to the USA was important enough to warrant the monocle "noble", and finally...that Trump was quite correct when he called Lee a great general.
It is a basic tactic of fascism, to alter history to suit the outlook preferred by the fascist oppressor.
Hitler did it. So did Stalin. I think the question now has to be...
What are you condoning here Tiger?

Yes, people who fought for slavery are not good people. That is a really basic fact. And despite your hysterics we know full well that even in 1860 people knew slavery was a great evil.

His "service"? Nothing about Lee getting hundreds of thousands of Americans killed was "noble".

Aw, does the guy who wants to ethnically cleanse Europe think the south was "oppressed"? :lamo

Stalin wasn't a fascist, so your historical ignorance is even more laughable than I previously thought.

I think the question really is.....why are you far right posters so incredibly ignorant?
 
And the north went to war to keep the south from being free. I think killing a million people to 'preserve the union' is pretty obvious that they werent free.

But the south wouldn't have been "free" even if they had won, because they were fighting to keep other people enslaved.

No, the south wasn't free to continue enslaving other human beings, but they had every other right. They simply didn't care because they were desperate to preserve their precious system of selling human beings like cattle.
 
Each state sends two statues to Statuary Hall in the Capitol Building. The Feds have no say in it and simply put the statues in a suitable place. I suspect however that if some sh!thole state in the Deep South -- such as Louisiana for instance -- might try to send a statue of David Duke to the Hall the practice and procedure of the Feds accepting whatever statue a state sends for display would change overnight.

Mississippi as a further instance sent Jefferson Davis whose statue still stands. MS is Davis birthplace. Davis' Mississippi chum James Z. George stands next to Davis in the Hall...

He served as a private in the Mexican–American War under Colonel Jefferson Davis, and participated in the Battle of Monterey.[1] In 1931, the state of Mississippi donated a bronze statue of George to the United States Capitol's National Statuary Hall Collection.

As a member of the Mississippi Secession Convention, George signed the Ordinance of Secession. A Confederate colonel of the 5th Mississippi Cavalry during the Civil War, he was captured twice and spent two years in a prisoner of war camp. In 1879 he was appointed to the Supreme Court of Mississippi and immediately was chosen chief justice by his colleagues. From 1881 until his death, George represented Mississippi in the United States Senate. The J. Z. George High School in North Carrollton, Mississippi is named in his honor, which is less than two miles from his burial place. In addition, George County, Mississippi, is also named in his honor.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Z._George



Louisiana has statues of Huey Long and Edward Douglas White the 9th chief justice of the United States (1910 - 1921) who had been an associate justice since 1894...

White's Civil War service was taken as a matter of common knowledge at the time of his initial nomination to the United States Supreme Court, and the Confederate Veteran periodical, published for the United Confederate Veterans, congratulated him upon his confirmation. He sided with the Supreme Court majority in Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld the legality of state segregation to provide "separate but equal" public facilities in the United States, despite protections of the Fourteenth Amendment to equal protection of the laws.

White was a member of the Ku Klux Klan in the aftermath of the death of the Confederacy. Later, while on the Supreme Court, he approved of the film The Birth of a Nation, which helped reignite the Klan in the 1920s.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Douglass_White#American_Civil_War_service


In short, while Statuary Hall in the Capitol Building is dominated by noble and honorable American personages, it also has some shady characters sent mainly by certain states of the Deep South to include some vile lowlife scum.

A statue of David Duke in statuary hall would be magnificent. He represents a superior people of European heritage this nation was created for by our noble founders.
 
Just the opposite, to say the slaves should be free but not the south is hypocritcal. Im saying BOTH should be free.

If you support the secessionist Confederacy you aren't supporting freedom. You're supporting oppression and white supremacy.
 
Thats convenient for them, but the constitution says whats it says. It is the supreme law, not court opinions.

The says "We the people" not we the states, and it continues on with "in order to form a more perfect union. The Constitution is all about preserving and protecting the union.
 
Yes, people who fought for slavery are not good people. That is a really basic fact. And despite your hysterics we know full well that even in 1860 people knew slavery was a great evil.

His "service"? Nothing about Lee getting hundreds of thousands of Americans killed was "noble".

Aw, does the guy who wants to ethnically cleanse Europe think the south was "oppressed"? :lamo

Stalin wasn't a fascist, so your historical ignorance is even more laughable than I previously thought.

I think the question really is.....why are you far right posters so incredibly ignorant?

Historical texts refer to Lee as "a great general".
I think I'll believe the texts, over your opinion, thank you very much.
What makes you so eager to rewrite history? Do you actually think this outpouring of moral offense, justifies the altering of history?
How...magnanimously pompous. And quite the fascist idea, I must say.


What knocks me out is the leaders of the current version of the Democratic Party, are just about as fascist as you are. Maybe more in some cases.
I hope allot of "fence-sitters" are reading this. Less that 3 weeks now...
 
No, Im saying two wrongs dont make a right. Slavery is wrong, so was forcing the south under the authority of the union. Had they freed the slaves and gone home, we wouldnt be having an argument today. Heck, the union didnt even free the slaves in the north. The emancipation didnt apply to border states. And Lincoln was more concerned with keeping the union than slavery.

Of course the President was more concerned about protecting the Union. Protecting the country is the President's primary function. Lincoln was opposed to slavery from the very beginnings of his political career. The South was never going to free any of the slaves unless they were compelled to do so. Lincoln had it right when he said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. Not that he feared the house would fall. But rather the government could not continue on with being half slave and half free. It eventually will have to be all of one thing or the other.
 
Lee was a great general that's a fact that few deny but he was no Napoleon.
He led the 'Army of Northern Virginia' towards Pennsylvania whuch had been consistantly victorious against superior numbers. After Frederickburg (Dec 1862) & Chancellorsville
(May 63) his soldiers had as solid a faith in their leader as any army that ever marched.
That alone elevates Lee to greatness.

So at the high watermark of the confedercy Lee ventured north with the largest army
he ever led an army that may have matched for the first time the north in numbers
& munitions but he did so without Thomas Jackson & without the knowledge that
JEB Stuart, who was known to run circles around Union cavaly, would
fail him for the first time at the most important battle.
Historians have called Chancellorsville 'Lee's perfect battle' & though he may have planned it, it was Jackson's impletation of the battle that won the day,
No Jackson no 'Lee's perfect battle'. At Gettysburg no Jackson no chance!


Lee had no chance period whether you people talk about winning or stalemating.

Lee was the career Army engineer who needed fighting generals who knew what they were doing. Yet Lee had a habit of getting his senior officers in command killed or wounded -- by the dozens.


Dead Confederate Generals Society


Let's start with but one, a Brigadier General, Richard B. Garnett:

his brigade of five Virginia regiments, were in
the front rank of Pickett's assault. Garnett
disappeared in the holocaust of flame and
smoke, a few moments later, his riderless horse,
streaming blood came galloping to the rear.



Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War

The following list provides the names of the Confederate general officers killed in the American Civil War, the battle in which they received the wounds, and is organized by the position they held in the Confederate forces.


ARMY COMMANDERS

General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh.


CORPS COMMANDERS

Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg.


DIVISION COMMANDERS

Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run.


BRIGADE COMMANDERS/Brigadier-General Killed in Action = 62, among whom are:


Killed at Pea Ridge: Ben. McCulloch, James Mcintosh, William Y. Slack.
Adley H. Gladden, at Shiloh.
Killed at Antietam: George B. Anderson, L. O'B. Branch, William E. Starke.

Thomas R. Cobb, Fredericksburg; Maxcy Gregg, Fredericksburg.
James E. Rains, Stone's River; Roger W. Hanson, Stone's River.

Martin E. Green, Vicksburg.
Killed at Gettysburg: William Barksdale, Lewis Armistead, Richard B. Garnett, Paul J. Semmes.
J. J. Pettigrew, Falling Waters.
Chickamauga: Preston Smith, Benjamin H. Helm, James Deshler.

W. R. Scurry, at Jenkins Ferry.
Killed at Wilderness: John M. Jones, Micah Jenkins, L. A. Stafford.
Abner Perrin, at Spotsylvania; Julius Daniel, Spotsylvania.
James B. Gordon, Yellow Tavern.

W. E. Jones, Piedmont.

Killed at Petersburg: Stephen Elliott, Jr., Victor J. Girardey; Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Killed at Franklin: John Adams, Oscar F. Strahl, S. R. Gist, H. B. Granberry.
James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.

Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War
 
Please see #747.

I read that many times in the past. I do not agree with it. I think the people are the issue. If 10 million people do not wish to be governed by some 40 million other people they should have the right to self govern without fear of military reprisal or basically the majority taking their freedom of choice. Say everyone in the state agrees to leave the union they should have the right to choose. This whole notion all these people need someone else's permission means they are not free to choose. We are no better than the USSR when we take away peoples freedom.
 
Lee had no chance period whether you people talk about winning or stalemating.

Lee was the career Army engineer who needed fighting generals who knew what they were doing. Yet Lee had a habit of getting his senior officers in command killed or wounded -- by the dozens.


Dead Confederate Generals Society


Let's start with but one, a Brigadier General, Richard B. Garnett:

his brigade of five Virginia regiments, were in
the front rank of Pickett's assault. Garnett
disappeared in the holocaust of flame and
smoke, a few moments later, his riderless horse,
streaming blood came galloping to the rear.



Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War

The following list provides the names of the Confederate general officers killed in the American Civil War, the battle in which they received the wounds, and is organized by the position they held in the Confederate forces.


ARMY COMMANDERS

General Albert Sydney Johnston Killed at Shiloh.


CORPS COMMANDERS

Lieutenant-General Thomas J. Jackson Killed at Chancellorsville.
Lieutenant-General Leonidas Polk , Killed at Pine Mountain.
Lieutenant-General Ambrose P. Hill, Killed at Fall of Petersburg.


DIVISION COMMANDERS

Major-General William D. Pender Killed at Gettysburg.
Major-General J. E. B. Stewart, Killed at Yellow Tavern.
Major-General W. H. Walker, Killed at Atlanta.
Major-General Robert E. Rodes, Killed at Opequon.
Major-General Stephen D. Ramseur, Killed at Cedar Creek.
Major-General Patrick R. Cleburne, Killed at Franklin.
Brigadier-General John Pegram, Killed at Hatcher's Run.


BRIGADE COMMANDERS/Brigadier-General Killed in Action = 62, among whom are:


Killed at Pea Ridge: Ben. McCulloch, James Mcintosh, William Y. Slack.
Adley H. Gladden, at Shiloh.
Killed at Antietam: George B. Anderson, L. O'B. Branch, William E. Starke.

Thomas R. Cobb, Fredericksburg; Maxcy Gregg, Fredericksburg.
James E. Rains, Stone's River; Roger W. Hanson, Stone's River.

Martin E. Green, Vicksburg.
Killed at Gettysburg: William Barksdale, Lewis Armistead, Richard B. Garnett, Paul J. Semmes.
J. J. Pettigrew, Falling Waters.
Chickamauga: Preston Smith, Benjamin H. Helm, James Deshler.

W. R. Scurry, at Jenkins Ferry.
Killed at Wilderness: John M. Jones, Micah Jenkins, L. A. Stafford.
Abner Perrin, at Spotsylvania; Julius Daniel, Spotsylvania.
James B. Gordon, Yellow Tavern.

W. E. Jones, Piedmont.

Killed at Petersburg: Stephen Elliott, Jr., Victor J. Girardey; Archibald Gracie, Jr. Killed at Petersb'g Trenches.
Killed at Franklin: John Adams, Oscar F. Strahl, S. R. Gist, H. B. Granberry.
James Dearing, Killed at High Bridge.

Confederate Generals Killed In The Civil War
Barksdale was left to rot by the Yankees. They wouldn’t even attempt to keep his lung from collapsing. Lincoln got what he deserved.
 
And immense groups of people in the Confederacy had no right to choose anything.

So you do not believe people have the freedom of choice. Interesting.

Only if one handwaves away the fact that the vast majority of the deaths were due to disease and happened before there was an United States.

Disease was incidental at first but became a weapon. The westward expansion and the removal of Native Americans started after we became a country starting with the Louisiana purchase. The destruction of habitat and the eradication of their food source was no accident.

I get that you are reaching for a moral equivalence in a desperate attempt to justify your support for the Confederacy but it simply isn’t there.

I support the right of people to secede and govern themselves as they choose. I can do this without condoning slavery, the exploitation of immigrants, and illegal aliens.
 
A statue of David Duke in statuary hall would be magnificent. He represents a superior people of European heritage this nation was created for by our noble founders.

Barksdale was left to rot by the Yankees. They wouldn’t even attempt to keep his lung from collapsing. Lincoln got what he deserved.


It was Barksdale's collapsed morality that did him in. Which brings us to David Duke and his Nazi driven dementia. And to the Fanboyz of the Confederacy who want those days back again...


Gettysburg Off the Beaten Path: The Death of William Barksdale

“Gen. Barksdale was wounded, and he reeled but did not halt,” claimed the general’s nephew Capt. Harris Barksdale. The elder Barksdale was hit at least three. He fell to the earth. Lost in the tumult of the Union counter-attack, Barksdale was left behind as the Confederate’s retreated. His wounds proved fatal. Shot in the leg, ankle, and chest—according to one Confederate. When the general attempted to drink from a canteen the contents pour out through the gaping chest wound.

Once Barksdale was felled, his men were unable to extract him from the field.

Barksdale’s wound was indeed mortal and Robert A. Cassidy, a musician with the 148th PA. befriended the general. Cassidy tended to Old Barks in his final hours. “I found him just after dark,” Cassidy wrote to Narcissa Saunders Barksdale after the war, recounting her husband’s final hours.

“I came upon the General accidentally. Kneeling at his side, I asked him if he desired any assistance. He informed me that he was very thirsty, and I endeavored to give him water from the canteen but was unable to do so in consequence of his recumbent position, and the pain from his wounds…taking my spoon from my haversack I filled it several times and the General drank the water feverish avidity…the lung was cut and at every inhalation the blood was force copiously—with a sputtering noise—from the wound…. Noticing that his strength was failing rapidly, I…continued to administer water; dissolved morphine and diluted liquor alternately until I saw he was on the edge of the dark river.”


After the conclusion of the fight a Federal search party came across a Mississippian from Barksdale’s brigade, who, informed Lt. George G. Benedict of the 14th Vermont that his commander was badly wounded. James G. Cooper of the 1st Massachusetts and Birch Herkizemer of the 26th PA located the fallen officer. The new captive “was very abusive to the men who carried him.”

The general was carried to the home of the widower Jacob Hummelbaugh, whose farm sat adjacent to the Taneytown Road. Dr. Alfred Hamilton of the 148th Pennsylvania worked at the 2nd Corps field hospital that was setup at the farm earlier in the day. Hamilton examined the wounds “He was shot through the left breast & the left leg was broken by two missiles. He asked whether I considered his wounds necessarily mortal. I told him I did.

Although there was no slave to bring Barskdale a cold cup of water, there was a compassionate enemy that tended to the “haughty and supercilious” general in his final hours.


https://emergingcivilwar.com/2016/0...e-beaten-path-the-death-of-william-barksdale/
 
It was Barksdale's collapsed morality that did him in. Which brings us to David Duke and his Nazi driven dementia. And to the Fanboyz of the Confederacy who want those days back again...


Gettysburg Off the Beaten Path: The Death of William Barksdale

“Gen. Barksdale was wounded, and he reeled but did not halt,” claimed the general’s nephew Capt. Harris Barksdale. The elder Barksdale was hit at least three. He fell to the earth. Lost in the tumult of the Union counter-attack, Barksdale was left behind as the Confederate’s retreated. His wounds proved fatal. Shot in the leg, ankle, and chest—according to one Confederate. When the general attempted to drink from a canteen the contents pour out through the gaping chest wound.

Once Barksdale was felled, his men were unable to extract him from the field.

Barksdale’s wound was indeed mortal and Robert A. Cassidy, a musician with the 148th PA. befriended the general. Cassidy tended to Old Barks in his final hours. “I found him just after dark,” Cassidy wrote to Narcissa Saunders Barksdale after the war, recounting her husband’s final hours.

“I came upon the General accidentally. Kneeling at his side, I asked him if he desired any assistance. He informed me that he was very thirsty, and I endeavored to give him water from the canteen but was unable to do so in consequence of his recumbent position, and the pain from his wounds…taking my spoon from my haversack I filled it several times and the General drank the water feverish avidity…the lung was cut and at every inhalation the blood was force copiously—with a sputtering noise—from the wound…. Noticing that his strength was failing rapidly, I…continued to administer water; dissolved morphine and diluted liquor alternately until I saw he was on the edge of the dark river.”


After the conclusion of the fight a Federal search party came across a Mississippian from Barksdale’s brigade, who, informed Lt. George G. Benedict of the 14th Vermont that his commander was badly wounded. James G. Cooper of the 1st Massachusetts and Birch Herkizemer of the 26th PA located the fallen officer. The new captive “was very abusive to the men who carried him.”

The general was carried to the home of the widower Jacob Hummelbaugh, whose farm sat adjacent to the Taneytown Road. Dr. Alfred Hamilton of the 148th Pennsylvania worked at the 2nd Corps field hospital that was setup at the farm earlier in the day. Hamilton examined the wounds “He was shot through the left breast & the left leg was broken by two missiles. He asked whether I considered his wounds necessarily mortal. I told him I did.

Although there was no slave to bring Barskdale a cold cup of water, there was a compassionate enemy that tended to the “haughty and supercilious” general in his final hours.


https://emergingcivilwar.com/2016/0...e-beaten-path-the-death-of-william-barksdale/
So you agree then that they did not attempt to keep the lounge from collapse. Thankyou.
 
So you agree then that they did not attempt to keep the lounge from collapse. Thankyou.


That's your statement from the pits not mine. Or perhaps your delusional statement about the lung comes from the lounge. Have one for Old Barks okay? We're not laffing at you, we're laughing near you. We see the further evidence and proof at the thread that the reconstruction failed and it failed miserably. Which is why I and others believe we need a second and final one. In Lincoln's name and under the Constitution of course which will be after we save it and restore it from the diehard Confederate Fanboyz.
 
That's your statement from the pits not mine. Or perhaps your delusional statement about the lung comes from the lounge. Have one for Old Barks okay? We're not laffing at you, we're laughing near you. We see the further evidence and proof at the thread that the reconstruction failed and it failed miserably. Which is why I and others believe we need a second and final one. In Lincoln's name and under the Constitution of course which will be after we save it and restore it from the diehard Confederate Fanboyz.
Diehard................so flamboyant are you.
 
So you do not believe people have the freedom of choice. Interesting.



Disease was incidental at first but became a weapon. The westward expansion and the removal of Native Americans started after we became a country starting with the Louisiana purchase. The destruction of habitat and the eradication of their food source was no accident.



I support the right of people to secede and govern themselves as they choose. I can do this without condoning slavery, the exploitation of immigrants, and illegal aliens.

No, they were slaves, and therefore very clearly didn't have any such freedom of choice. Really basic history bud.

Considering the fact that historical documentation of "weaponized disease" actually being implemented is extremely lacking, your claims are a stretch at best. Shooting buffalo en masse was a nightmare form a conservation standpoint, but it was not an "eradication attempt" like you seem to think. Native Americans are not mountain lions or wolves---they have the ability to eat more than just buffalo.

Lol no, actually, you can't support the "right of the confederacy to secede" without condoning the slavery that they were seceding to protect in the first place.
 
Historical texts refer to Lee as "a great general".
I think I'll believe the texts, over your opinion, thank you very much.
What makes you so eager to rewrite history? Do you actually think this outpouring of moral offense, justifies the altering of history?
How...magnanimously pompous. And quite the fascist idea, I must say.


What knocks me out is the leaders of the current version of the Democratic Party, are just about as fascist as you are. Maybe more in some cases.
I hope allot of "fence-sitters" are reading this. Less that 3 weeks now...

Historical texts make it clear the south was fighting for slavery, that Lee lost the war, and that people understood even then that slavery was a great evil.

There is no "rewriting" involved in pointing out that Lee fought for slavery. There is no "alteration" involved. The south was very clear that is what they are fighting for.

What knocks me out is that the guy who wants to ethnically cleanse Europe actually has the gall to whine and wail about people debunking historical myths.

Yep, and what will they read? That Republicans don't have any problems with treason or fighting for slavery but whine and wail about "fascism" whenever their precious myths are debunked.
 
I read that many times in the past. I do not agree with it. I think the people are the issue. If 10 million people do not wish to be governed by some 40 million other people they should have the right to self govern without fear of military reprisal or basically the majority taking their freedom of choice. Say everyone in the state agrees to leave the union they should have the right to choose. This whole notion all these people need someone else's permission means they are not free to choose. We are no better than the USSR when we take away peoples freedom.

Regarding Texas v. White, your opinion does not matter in the slightest. Neither does mine. It is the law of the land, period.
No state has the right to leave the Union without the consent of the other states. Any attempt to secede will be met by force.

 
No, they were slaves, and therefore very clearly didn't have any such freedom of choice. Really basic history bud.

I do not condone slavery or any exploitation of people. I have no clue what you are talking about.
 
Considering the fact that historical documentation of "weaponized disease" actually being implemented is extremely lacking, your claims are a stretch at best. Shooting buffalo en masse was a nightmare form a conservation standpoint, but it was not an "eradication attempt" like you seem to think. Native Americans are not mountain lions or wolves---they have the ability to eat more than just buffalo.

There is documentation of people using disease going back to 400BC and most likely a lot longer than that.

... Captain Simeon Ecuyer had bought time by sending smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the Indians surrounding the fort -- an early example of biological warfare -- which started an epidemic among them. Amherst himself had encouraged this tactic in a letter to Ecuyer.
 
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