Trump: I didn't record secret tapes of James Comey

[Anthony60]

Good point, its Goldman Sachs who is always running the white house.

And they are fine with the left or the right.

 

[Fenton Lum]

And they are fine with the left or the right.

Absolutely, always have it covered both ways. That's how ya get bailouts across "both" a "conservative" and "liberal" administrations with the same economic "advisement" team.

 

[jmotivator]

All available evidence points to the contrary. You have absolutely no clue what you're going on about.

What evidence would that be?

And again, by posting that, you just proved that you have no clue.

Again, wrong. There is no crime, no hint of a crime. The CIA deals in such inuendo, not law enforcement. I suppose maybe you don't know the difference between the CIA and FBI...

Newp. Wrong. There is an arkload of credible circumstantial evidence that created the PC to get the investigations off the ground. That frightens you, I know, but it's reality.

Bull****. The most credible source of evidence, the dossier, was debunked. Start posting the evidence. Should be easy if there is so much.

Whistle past that graveyard all you'd like. Reality will still be there when it all comes crashing down.

LOL! And add "whistle past the graveyard" to the long list of things you don't understand.

 

[Athanasius68]

There is a criminal investigation into Flynn. That is who Trump was intervening on behalf of.

Let me ask you: If I'm a governor -- and I have a cousin who is being investigated by the Chief of Police in Townsville for a potential felony -- if I call up that Chief, ask him to a private dinner at the Governor's mansion, and at that dinner, ask him “I hope you can see your way clear to letting my cousin go"

do you think that would be an attempt of obstruction of justice?

The Flynn sin is tied up into all the Russia.
And the investigation into Flynn did not end (even though Trump, as president, can order it ended. He doesn't need the approval of the FBI).

 

[Tanngrisnir]

What evidence would that be?

It's just astonishing how the intellectually lazy need this to be pointed out to them almost on an hourly basis.

A. No smoking gun is necessary at this time
B. There was enough circumstantial evidence to get PC to start the investigations.
C. There was enough to get FISA warrants.
D. Major players have been caught lying under oath about their contacts/communications with Russians and Russian intelligence.
E. One of those major players publicly asked for immunity and his lawyer stated he, 'has a story to tell'.
F. Many in Trump's inner circle have now lawyered up. Hell, one of those lawyers has now lawyered up.
G. Two clandestine attempts to create very suspicious back channels occurred, one of them apparently at the Russian embassy using Russian cryptographic systems
H. Russian mobsters have/had been using Trump properties for years for their activities, and Trump had to pay fines for money laundering
I could go on, but I don't want to ruin your trip whistling past that graveyard and get you more upset than you appear to be.

Again, wrong. There is no crime, no hint of a crime. The CIA deals in such inuendo, not law enforcement. I suppose maybe you don't know the difference between the CIA and FBI...

Yes, there is much more than just a 'hint of a crime, as I've just demonstrated, and law enforcement IS dealing with it right now. In fact, the Mueller investigation is not addressing three different areas: collusion, obstruction AND financial crimes. This is going to be interesting to watch for rational adults who arent' afraid of reality.

Bull****. The most credible source of evidence, the dossier, was debunked. Start posting the evidence. Should be easy if there is so much.

Yawn.

A. The dossier was not 'debunked'. To maintain that it was is to lie.
B. Nothing indicates that it was 'the most credible source'. You're lying again.

LOL! And add "whistle past the graveyard" to the long list of things you don't understand.

It's OK that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and simply cannot face reality.

I expect nothing less.

 

[Paperview]

The Flynn sin is tied up into all the Russia.
And the investigation into Flynn did not end (even though Trump, as president, can order it ended. He doesn't need the approval of the FBI).

I noticed you very glaringly avoided answering the question.

Hmmm.

 

[MAGAnificent]

The Tax Cuts are the primary drivers of the national debt. Republicans are responsible for the debt. It's a fairly simple concept. If the government needs 4 trillion to function, and you cut taxes so, the government only collects 3.5 Trillion, then you gave 1/2 Trillion away, and put it on the public's credit card.

Unfortunately you are ignorant about how tax cuts work much less how debts are created or grown. The GWB tax cuts, the Reagan tax cuts, and the JFK tax cuts all led to an increase in tax revenue. I don't expect that you will desire to understand the math, however it has to do with tax cuts having a positive effect on economic growth and in effect creating more jobs and more tax payers. Even the wealthy pay more based on more earnings. I should not have to explain the debt to you. Only deficit spending drives the debt. It happens when the government continues to spend a dollar and a half for every new tax dollar it takes in. And if you think the government needs to spend all of that money, I would like to sell you some beach front property in Kansas.

 

[Winston]

Unfortunately you are ignorant about how tax cuts work much less how debts are created or grown. The GWB tax cuts, the Reagan tax cuts, and the JFK tax cuts all led to an increase in tax revenue. I don't expect that you will desire to understand the math, however it has to do with tax cuts having a positive effect on economic growth and in effect creating more jobs and more tax payers. Even the wealthy pay more based on more earnings. I should not have to explain the debt to you. Only deficit spending drives the debt. It happens when the government continues to spend a dollar and a half for every new tax dollar it takes in. And if you think the government needs to spend all of that money, I would like to sell you some beach front property in Kansas.

Good luck selling any property in KS after Brownbacks ill advised jaunt with supply side.

Revenue as a % of GDP is what matters and after tax cuts it can hit as low as 15%. Bushs economy was propped up by a housing bubble that popped, if not for said bubble his tax cuts would have no cover.

We're telling the truth about voodoo economics in 2017. Not buying the garbage cons peddle.

 

[MAGAnificent]

:lamo :lamo

CNN deletes, retracts story linking Trump and Russia
CNN deletes, retracts story linking Trump and Russia

I think many of us will enjoy the following piece originating from the Washington Post. Ofcourse there are a few posters who may not.:mrgreen:

Opinion | How can you still doubt Trump?s intelligence?

 

[Athanasius68]

I noticed you very glaringly avoided answering the question.

Hmmm.

Ok-- the answer is this: the analogy is probably false. Most likely that police chief has power and authority independent of the governor. In other words, that policeman's authority is not delegated to him by the governor.

In the case of the director of the FBI, the Sec of Commerce, head of the Parks Department, ANY employee and official in the Executive Department, are subject to the authority and supervision of the president. The FBI director has NO authority, no power independent of the president. The president didn't need to ask Comey, he had the right (and still does btw) to simply order the investigation to stop. At that point, the option for a director would be to obey or resign.

 

[haymarket]

There was NO criminal investigation. There was NO JUSTICE to obstruct.

Exactly where are you getting this absurd claim from?

 

[haymarket]

Comey told Trump he was not under investigation. That means Trump was not obstructing an investigation and has every right as Comey's boss to fire him. Case closed.

As has been stated more times than I can count - Trump is many things.

Trump is a man.

Trump is the campaign.

Trump is the business empire.

Trump is the Administration.

And to some extent is all of these things and more - a public personna, an image, a mythic being larger than any of the individual components.

Comey assured Trump that the man was not the target of the FBI. At the same time, both knew that Trump the campaign was indeed being looked at by the investigation. And both men also knew that figures within the Trump administration were being looked at by the investigation as well. Trump was indeed being looked at by the investigation even if the human bing Donald Trump was not necessarily a target.

But Trump the Comey conversation as he does all things - as he wanted to take it... as he needed to take it ... as he had to take it to live with himself and advance his own goals. The mans reality is not necessarily the reality that others live in.

And besides, both Comey and Trump knew the investigation was developing and that its targets could change in a day. A person not the target on Tuesday could find themselves the target on Thursday. And if one has to fear Thursday, then one might well take action before Thursday ever rears its ugly head.

One can indeed obstruct justice by trying to impede an investigation in which they are involved - even if they are not at that moment the target of it.

 

[Athanasius68]

Exactly where are you getting this absurd claim from?

Which? That there was no criminal investigation? From Comey. He ought to know.
That if there was no justice being sought, it cannot be obstructed? Logic, I would think.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Good luck selling any property in KS after Brownbacks ill advised jaunt with supply side.

Revenue as a % of GDP is what matters and after tax cuts it can hit as low as 15%. Bushs economy was propped up by a housing bubble that popped, if not for said bubble his tax cuts would have no cover.

We're telling the truth about voodoo economics in 2017. Not buying the garbage cons peddle.

What you are doing is making it up as you go along. The indisputable fact is that the last three major tax cuts led to increases in tax revenue. Throwing in the GDP and the housing bubble is merely a half hearted attempt to baffle with bullsh*t. You made the claim that tax cuts drive deficits. They do not.

 

[Athanasius68]

As has been stated more times than I can count - Trump is many things.

Trump is a man.

Trump is the campaign.

Trump is the business empire.

Trump is the Administration.

And to some extent is all of these things and more - a public personna, an image, a mythic being larger than any of the individual components.

Comey assured Trump that the man was not the target of the FBI. At the same time, both knew that Trump the campaign was indeed being looked at by the investigation. And both men also knew that figures within the Trump administration were being looked at by the investigation as well. Trump was indeed being looked at by the investigation even if the human bing Donald Trump was not necessarily a target.

But Trump the Comey conversation as he does all things - as he wanted to take it... as he needed to take it ... as he had to take it to live with himself and advance his own goals. The mans reality is not necessarily the reality that others live in.

And besides, both Comey and Trump knew the investigation was developing and that its targets could change in a day. A person not the target on Tuesday could find themselves the target on Thursday. And if one has to fear Thursday, then one might well take action before Thursday ever rears its ugly head.

One can indeed obstruct justice by trying to impede an investigation in which they are involved - even if they are not at that moment the target of it.

And again... A counterintelligence investigation is not a criminal investigation. The president can absolutely stop a counterintelligence investigation-- as well as a criminal investigation---
The question becomes whether he does so for "corrupt" purposes.
Considering that there was not a criminal investigation of Trump the man, Trump the campaign, Trump the corporation, it's kind of tough to determine "corrupt" motives in force.

 

[haymarket]

Which? That there was no criminal investigation? From Comey. He ought to know.
That if there was no justice being sought, it cannot be obstructed? Logic, I would think.

Aha! Logic!!!! That invention of the creative mind when reality will simply not suffice with its own evidence.

Got it.

For a moment there I feared you were quoting the Constitution or law which defined such a leap. But now we see it was nothing of the kind.

Thank you for clarifying that.

And is not all inquiry into wrongs about justice in the end? I would think LOGIC tells us that. Either than or just plain common sense. Or maybe its in the Pledge of Allegiance which told us as children what this country is all about in the first place?

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Short, sweet , simple and to the point. I always liked it and it brings back memories of each day at school standing next to those desks, hand over heart saying those memorized words about what our nation is all about and its promise.

 

[Athanasius68]

Aha! Logic!!!! That invention of the creative mind when reality will simply not suffice with its own evidence.

Got it.

For a moment there I feared you were quoting the Constitution or law which defined such a leap. But now we see it was nothing of the kind.

Thank you for clarifying that.

And is not all inquiry into wrongs about justice in the end? I would think LOGIC tells us that. Either than or just plain common sense. Or maybe its in the Pledge of Allegiance which told us as children what this country is all about in the first place?

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Short, sweet , simple and to the point. I always liked it and it brings back memories of each day at school standing next to those desks, hand over heart saying those memorized words about what our nation is all about and its promise.

Ok-- so explain how justice can be obstructed if not being sought?

 

[Paperview]

Ok-- the answer is this: the analogy is probably false. Most likely that police chief has power and authority independent of the governor. In other words, that policeman's authority is not delegated to him by the governor.

I think he could find a way to fire, but let's zone it down and make it the Chief of the State Police, or the head of the state Law Enforcement Agency? What would you say then. No Obstruction of Justice to asking him to "see his way" to getting his cousin off potential felony charges? Ha!

I think you're trying to find a way to not say what is obvious to most: people in positions of power abusing their authority to protect their kin or friends from facing criminal charges is most def. O o J. And you know it.

In the case of the director of the FBI, the Sec of Commerce, head of the Parks Department, ANY employee and official in the Executive Department, are subject to the authority and supervision of the president. The FBI director has NO authority, no power independent of the president. The president didn't need to ask Comey, he had the right (and still does btw) to simply order the investigation to stop. At that point, the option for a director would be to obey or resign.

Because he had the authority -- all agree he did -- does not mean what he did was appropriate or ethical, given his stated reasons for firing him.

 

[Athanasius68]

I think he could find a way to fire, but let's zone it down and make it the Chief of the State Police, or the head of the state Law Enforcement Agency. What would you say then. No Obstruction of Justice? Ha!

I think you're trying to find a way to not say what is obvious to most: people in positions of power abusing their authority to protect their kin or friends from facing criminal charges is most def. O o J. And you know it.

Because he had the authority -- all agree he did -- does not mean what he did was appropriate or ethical, given his stated reasons for firing him.

Doesnt matter, legally, whether firing Comey was ethical or appropriate.
And that's what we are talking about here. Though at this point it's suddenly becoming abuse of power as opposed to obstruction of justice where the problem resides.

 

[Paperview]

Doesnt matter, legally, whether firing Comey was ethical or appropriate.
And that's what we are talking about here. Though at this point it's suddenly becoming abuse of power as opposed to obstruction of justice where the problem resides.

1. You seem to keep ignoring Flynn is under criminal investigation, of which Trump tried to abuse his power to obstruct justice. Der.

2. It's nice to see Trumpers come right out and say **** ethics or appropriateness. Obstruct away!

3. Legally, Nixon could fire Archibald Cox. It didn't work out too good for him. Should Trump order Mueller fired, whoa, Nelly, hang onto your horses.

 

[haymarket]

Ok-- so explain how justice can be obstructed if not being sought?

Justice is always being sought. That is one of the main purposes why man has government in the first place.

even Superman knew that when with every action he "fights a never ending battle for Truth, Justice and the American Way."

Justice is always being sought after and is a motivation of government and our very civilization.

 

[haymarket]

Because he had the authority -- all agree he did -- does not mean what he did was appropriate or ethical, given his stated reasons for firing him.

The practical reality that one can have power and authority and abuse and misuse that same power and authority for nefarious means never intended by those who entrusted them with power in the first place seems to escape the Trump apologists.

But it does not matter what they think because previous impeachment have indeed cited obstruction of justice as a crime the president can commit. That is already established and beyond dispute no matter how inventive or creative the Trump supporters want to be.

 

[Winston]

What you are doing is making it up as you go along. The indisputable fact is that the last three major tax cuts led to increases in tax revenue. Throwing in the GDP and the housing bubble is merely a half hearted attempt to baffle with bullsh*t. You made the claim that tax cuts drive deficits. They do not.

They are the primary driver of the national debt. We're done accepting cons lies.

 

[Paperview]

The practical reality that one can have power and authority and abuse and misuse that same power and authority for nefarious means never intended by those who entrusted them with power in the first place seems to escape the Trump apologists.

But it does not matter what they think because previous impeachment have indeed cited obstruction of justice as a crime the president can commit. That is already established and beyond dispute no matter how inventive or creative the Trump supporters want to be.

Yep. The only two presidents who have had Impeachment Articles drawn up since Andrew Johnson -- included Obstruction of Justice and Abuse of Power in their first two Articles.

(not that I think Trump will be impeached at this point, or even close to it, just sayin'...)

 

[haymarket]

And again... A counterintelligence investigation is not a criminal investigation. The president can absolutely stop a counterintelligence investigation-- as well as a criminal investigation---
The question becomes whether he does so for "corrupt" purposes.
Considering that there was not a criminal investigation of Trump the man, Trump the campaign, Trump the corporation, it's kind of tough to determine "corrupt" motives in force.

Where are you getting this false premise from --- that this must be a criminal investigation?