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Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans

The US has a trade deficit with steel. While I think that big of a tariff is not good, a smaller increase would be good. We are the largest importer of steel in the world, with the most coming from Canada. I don't like alienating our Northern neighbors.

What I'm trying to find out is what percent tariff other countries charge us for the imports.

https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf
 
You know, the more I read, the more there is to all of this. There are numerous complaints against other nations for their unfair practices of trade items. This, in general, is no different than what other countries do to the US. Nor is it anything new. The steel/aluminum issue seems to be in retaliation to China, who over a year ago was giving subsidies to their aluminum producers creating and unfair trade situation. The US, Japan, Canada, the EU and Russia joined in the complaint.

It's a lot more complicated than just "Trump sucks and is ruining our country".

It's an interactive site and you have to drill down to find info.
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/cases_e/ds519_e.htm

Main site link, if your interested: https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/org6_e.htm
 
Economics professor Adam Posen has roundly blasted the idea of imposing fresh tariffs on imports of steel and aluminium into the US.
Posen, the president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics, told CNBC the plan was “just straight up stupid,”, adding:

"This is fundamentally incompetent, corrupt or misguided.”

Posen also took issue with President Trump’s argument that he was protecting US jobs and industries, as:

"Steel is just a tiny input in the U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) — which is why it’s so crazy."

According to CNBC, there were roughly 140,000 Americans employed in steel mills in 2015, while 6.5 million Americans worked in industries that consumed steel.

Stock futures are tanking and dollar at lowest yen level since since 2016 as a response to Trump's tweet.
 
I'm hoping our president can silently pull his foot outta his mouth and say I am putting this 25%/10% tariff on bad actors not on my neighbors.
I know he doesn't like to admit wrong but maybe he could say fake news didn't cover his entire statement.
 
I'm simply arguing for fair trade as opposed to the violation of trade laws. We wouldn't need tariffs if all countries followed the trade agreements they agreed to. By Trump imposing tariffs, we can enforce provisions for countries engaged in illegal trade subsidies and illegal dumping of products below their cost.


If you don't believe that's the course we should take, offer your alternative solution. So far the only thing I've heard is Trump sucks with no explanation of how to correct the problem.
 
iguanaman said:
But who will be effected by these inane tariffs? Countries that export steel to the U.S. right? Here's the top 5. China is a small player here and it is these countries that will be hurt by the tariffs. Look who number 3 is...

I think we should stop buying ANYTHING from Russia period. Strangling that viper in his own greed.
PS China is NOT our enemy...

1. Canada
2. Brazil
3. South Korea
4. Mexico
5. Russia

https://www.voanews.com/a/top-us-import-sources-steel-aluminum/4277212.html
Click to expand...

And Canada imports more steel than it exports to the US
Approx 2 B more.
 
dobieg said:
Let me guess, the liberal idea is to let foreign countries keep manipulating trade so more of our manufacturing leaves our shores but by golly they'll give those displaced workers welfare and job training to make 'em feel a little better.

I'd just love to see any of you liberals go to some of these decimated areas of Ohio, Pa or Michigan and tell them they have to just suck it up.
Click to expand...
Try, just try, to inject facts into your posts.

According to you, little United States is being bullied by big-bad foreign nations manipulating trade -- and you agree with the Great Leader, that the solution is a tariff of 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum, in order to protect the "decimated areas of Ohio, Pa or Michigan."

The differences between my "liberal ideas" and the shoot-from-the-hip Trump ideas, is that liberal policies try to solve a problem by thinking out the ramifications so we get a solution that leaves us better off, as a nation. Conversely, Trump policies appease the emotions of his rah-rah-base, and leave them worse off. The reality is, as I stated previously in this thread, that the number of total steel and aluminum workers is about 300,000. The number of workers that will be negatively effected by this tariff is in the millions. New tariffs would probably boost costs for U.S. automakers, can manufacturers, infrastructure projects, and even defense contractors. Thousands of companies and millions of workers who rely on these metals as inputs would be hit, and eventually consumers would see prices increase.

Foreign nations would respond with their own tariff:
U.S. exporters could also be hurt by retaliatory moves. In response to Trump’s new safeguard tariffs on solar panels in January, China began its own investigation into $1 billion of U.S. sorghum exports that could result in Beijing imposing new tariffs — and U.S. farmers losing out.
(same link as above)
Click to expand...
 
slick said:
Where am I wrong here. If the USA produces 75% of the steel we use & import the other 25%. The effect of the 25% tariff on consumers would only be
6.25%. I don't think the 25% figure is etched in stone either a 20% tariff if my math is correct would mean a 4% increase to consimers of steel products.
Perhaps the tariffs would only be put on countries known for dumping & other devious practices. I think something should be done to make sure U.S. steel
makers get the necessary protection in order to remain viable. I'll wait until the dimensions of the tariff proposal is announced to give it a thumbs up or down,
but overall I'd like to see something done!

In the last decade I recall a few steel companies going under. The industry that was one of the primary factors in overtaking
Britain as the greatest economic & military power in the world about 100 years ago ought to remain productive & profitable.
Click to expand...

Well Bucky as the tariffs are applied to imported steel -aluminum, US producers raise their prices.
 
I understand that of all US Steel/Aluminum imports, China's portion is rather low. If China is able to produce such "low priced" metal, why isn't the US getting far more of its metal supply from China? There are 25 countries that China sells more steel to than the US.
 
MTAtech said:
Try, just try, to inject facts into your posts.

According to you, little United States is being bullied by big-bad foreign nations manipulating trade -- and you agree with the Great Leader, that the solution is a tariff of 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum, in order to protect the "decimated areas of Ohio, Pa or Michigan."

The differences between my "liberal ideas" and the shoot-from-the-hip Trump ideas, is that liberal policies try to solve a problem by thinking out the ramifications so we get a solution that leaves us better off, as a nation. Conversely, Trump policies appease the emotions of his rah-rah-base, and leave them worse off. The reality is, as I stated previously in this thread, that the number of total steel and aluminum workers is about 300,000. The number of workers that will be negatively effected by this tariff is in the millions. New tariffs would probably boost costs for U.S. automakers, can manufacturers, infrastructure projects, and even defense contractors. Thousands of companies and millions of workers who rely on these metals as inputs would be hit, and eventually consumers would see prices increase.

Foreign nations would respond with their own tariff:
Click to expand...


Once again, what's your solution?
 
Kushinator said:
It is cheaper for steel consumers, allowing them to produce more products for a lower price. If they are forced to pay 2x-5x more due to protectionism, how on earth does this benefit our economy or manufacturing base? How can you say in one hand higher taxes cost jobs and in another claim protectionism benefits the U.S. economy or manufacturing base?

No need to explain this deep discrepancy to me... i'm well aware of the blatant hypocrisy that has infected the U.S. conservative base.
Click to expand...

Actually, I never claimed to be a proponent of Trumps trade war rhetoric or tariffs for that matter.

Believe it or not, you can be a supporter of free trade AND call attention to unfair trade practices and the detriments of dumping without being a hypocrite

The EU just instituted new anti-dumping regulations aimed at China, and I didn't notice any Libersl poutrage over it, and our Commerce Dept just implemented new anti-dumping regulations.

If you people weren't so consumed with anti-Trump partisan hatred, you would probably agree that China's unfair trade policies need to be addressed
 
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Fenton said:
Actually, I never claimed to be a proponent of Trumps trade war rhetoric or tariffs for that matter.

Believe it or not, you can be a supporter of free trade AND call attention to unfair trade practices and the detriments of dumping without being a hypocrite

The EU just instituted new anti-dumping regulations aimed at China, and I didn't notice any Libersl poutrage over it, and our Commerce Dept just implemented new anti-dumping regulations.

If you people weren't so consumed with anti-Trump partisan hatred, you would probably agree that China's unfair trade policies need to be addressed
Click to expand...

If we were only talking about China, you’d have a point. And Trump hatred is bipartisan. He’s an embarrassment to any decent, thinking human being.
 
dobieg said:
Once again, what's your solution?
Click to expand...

In reference to post #86, what's the problem?

The world is a global economy. Foreign companies sell products to American individuals and companies and American companies sell products to foreign individuals and companies. Imports of steel were $29 billion and aluminum $17 billion in 2017. This production has been stable for decades. (see chart)

Moreover, employment in this industry is relatively small and isn't likely to grow with a tariff on foreign steel and aluminum.

fredgraph.png


Tariffs hurt everyone -- they hurt those exporting, who can't export and they hurt importers, who then are faced with supply problems that force them to pay higher prices for the current supply. They also hurt consumers, who have to pay higher prices for finished goods. They also hurt the importing country's economy, since exporters have less money to buy goods.

I don't agree with Trump, who said ‘trade wars are good, and easy to win’
 
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leekohler2 said:
If we were only talking about China, you’d have a point. And Trump hatred is bipartisan. He’s an embarrassment to any decent, thinking human being.
Click to expand...

The announcement was reckless and idiotic...Maybe it was just a bluff to make trump's base of angry men think he was fighting for them?...If implemented there is NO doubt other countries will follow suit with their own tariffs, where that will lead nobody knows
 
dobieg said:
I appreciate President Trump putting the interest of the American worker first. It's unbelievable how some would have us stand by as other countries decimate our steel industry thru unfair trade practices.
Click to expand...

How is starting a trade war at this point going to help American workers? When your economy is tied to a global market, isolationism is a recipe for ill tidings. It's very likely to kill more American jobs than it would eventually create and drive the price of goods upwards. More unemployment and less buying power for the domestic dollar doesn't sound all that great.

But, maybe Trump knows something economists don't know. He is a very healthy genius after all.
 
I'm not sure I agree with this.
 
leekohler2 said:
If we were only talking about China, you’d have a point. And Trump hatred is bipartisan. He’s an embarrassment to any decent, thinking human being.
Click to expand...

Nope, Tump hatred is the result of a overly emotional and irrational response to a election loss.
Weren't you the poster advocating for the release of the identities of Trump supporters ? If so you made my point.

And of-course I was talking about China
 
Fenton said:
Nope, Tump hatred is the result of a overly emotional and irrational response to a election loss.
Weren't you the poster advocating for the release of the identities of Trump supporters ? If so you made my point.

And of-course I was talking about China
Click to expand...
I must disagree. The objection to Trump is not out of an unfounded "hatred" but a rational objection to a leader who proves himself erratic, unstable, ill-equipped for the job -- with a healthy dose of failure to understand the issues or desire to learn about the issues and disrespect for constitutional and ethical norms. He proves it with nearly every Tweet.
 
With reference to the posts referring to China as a potential enemy, if war between the US and China occurs, it will be nuclear. Pre-war steel production would be meaningless since the tools for war are already in place. The duration of such a conflict would be less than an episode of NCIS. Post war industrial output will depend on who can most effectively fashion stone into a viable hand tool.
The best way to prevent war is to totally integrate the global economy. That was one of the reasons for the creation of the EU.
 
Looky what happened just days before trumps steel tariffs announcement...


Trump confidant dumped millions in steel-related stock last week
Carl Icahn has impeccable timing

Billionaire investor and longtime Trump confidant Carl Icahn dumped $31.3 million of stock in a company heavily dependent on steel last week, just days before Trump announced plans to impose steep tariffs on steel imports.

In a little-noticed SEC filing submitted on February 22, 2018, Icahn disclosed that he systematically sold off nearly 1 million shares of Manitowoc Company Inc. Manitowoc is a “is a leading global manufacturer of cranes and lifting solutions” and, therefore, heavily dependent on steel to make its products.

The filing came just seven days before a White House event where Trump announced his intention of imposing a 25 percent tariff on steel imports.​

What an amazing coincidence.
 
So strange to watch people on both sides pivot on trade protectionism, apparently simply because Trump is for it.

I can't say that I endorse this move in particular, I tend to be more worried about manufacturing than (nearly) raw goods, but I'm not going to rail against it. The thing is - there will almost certainly be negative economic consequences to this. However, if the US throws its weight around, it may wind up undermining the WTO and I think that will be a net positive in the long run.

Trump is clearly thinking about the rust belt here. He will be protectionist so long as it gets him the exact electoral votes that he needs.
 
dobieg said:
Why would anyone be against creating more steel jobs in the US? These were great paying jobs back in the day and on a fair trading plane, production in the states along with jobs will go up.

It just makes sense.
Click to expand...

It's just another tax, and increases costs to the consumer.
 
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