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Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans

JANFU

JANFU

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Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name:homepage/story
President Trump on Thursday said he has decided to impose punishing tariffs on imported steel and aluminum in a major escalation of his trade offensive, disappointing Republican congressional leaders and inviting retaliation by U.S. trading partners.

Speaking at the White House, the president said he has decided on tariffs of 25 percent for foreign-made steel and 10 percent for aluminum.
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This has everything from increased profits for companies, to job losses to countries retaliating.

And the DOW dropped 500 on this news.
 
JANFU said:
Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs Thursday over objections from advisers and Republicans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d=hp_hp-top-table-main_no-name:homepage/story

This has everything from increased profits for companies, to job losses to countries retaliating.

And the DOW dropped 500 on this news.
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....and I don't think he can even legally do this. He cannot act unilaterally to alter or cancel an international treaty and I'm pretty sure the majority of steel coming into the US is by trade agreement.

But, if somehow he can, we have learned that the Liberal Government in Canada has budgeted for the end of NAFTA. By setting aside expenditure they serve notice they WILL retaliate.

MHO, he can't stand it that he hasn't had a banner headline since some school children were slaughtered and he's gotten his fat ass too embroiled in bump stocks and minimum ages for gun "purchases"; and being in a very lame middle is causing major heat from both ends...so? What to do? Scare the **** out of the Canadians and the Mexican's and show corporate America who's really "running" the "show".
 
Fearandloathing said:
....and I don't think he can even legally do this. He cannot act unilaterally to alter or cancel an international treaty and I'm pretty sure the majority of steel coming into the US is by trade agreement.

But, if somehow he can, we have learned that the Liberal Government in Canada has budgeted for the end of NAFTA. By setting aside expenditure they serve notice they WILL retaliate.

MHO, he can't stand it that he hasn't had a banner headline since some school children were slaughtered and he's gotten his fat ass too embroiled in bump stocks and minimum ages for gun "purchases"; and being in a very lame middle is causing major heat from both ends...so? What to do? Scare the **** out of the Canadians and the Mexican's and show corporate America who's really "running" the "show".
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He can using an obscure law, I think it is based upon imports undermining industries critical to the Military/National Security
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=de30c2fa-bb98-49b4-9b8a-ee6c21588a9f

On Feb. 16, 2018, the Department of Commerce (DOC) issued lengthy reports recommending large-scale restrictions on the imports of aluminum and steel pursuant to Section 232 of the 1962 Trade Expansion Act, the national security provision of the U.S. trade laws.1 These reports had already been forwarded to President Donald Trump on Jan. 11 (steel) and Jan. 17 (aluminum).
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https://www.commerce.gov/news/press...s-steel-and-aluminum-232-reports-coordination
 
Fearandloathing said:
....and I don't think he can even legally do this. He cannot act unilaterally to alter or cancel an international treaty and I'm pretty sure the majority of steel coming into the US is by trade agreement.
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It seems like it is a bit too much power, right? Like this is something that Congress should really be in charge of. I think he's trying to push this to really start changing the headlines. He's already announced that he's looking at gun control reform, and now this as well, aimed to "protect America".

It's hard to say what is going to come of it in the end, and we'll have to see what actually gets implemented because it can be drastically different than what Trump is saying. But certainly we have to be careful of retaliation, it's common in trade wars and the US has ceded too much of its manufacturing capabilities to effectively fight a trade war.
 
This is an incredibly dumb move by the administration. It blatantly panders to a small sector of the economy while punishing the vast majority of Americans who wish to purchase products containing these metals. I don't think there is much of a thought-process behind this, as it looks like Trump is just trying to show that he is 'tough on trade'.
 
The capitalists and the communists never stopped their war. They've just found a way to wage it without guns.
 
JANFU said:
He can using an obscure law, I think it is based upon imports undermining industries critical to the Military/National Security
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=de30c2fa-bb98-49b4-9b8a-ee6c21588a9f



https://www.commerce.gov/news/press...s-steel-and-aluminum-232-reports-coordination
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I would not be betting on that, it can only be determined that all parties knew about that law before signing, and that it is addressed in the treaty. International law is very tricky stuff, and usually people don't understand how their own laws can be overturned in the Supreme court. Treaties are struck for the very reason to prevent the next administration or the same one, from unilaterally dumping it.

And, a week's notice?

That says it's either bull**** or another court fight where Trump can play victim again. No contract can be killed without proper notice so at the very most what he's announcing next week will be the date, otherwise we're in for a long, drawn out court fight. And Canada has won the last 4, including the Boeing horse****. Canada is the number one supplier of steel and aluminum so we will see next week.
 
I appreciate President Trump putting the interest of the American worker first. It's unbelievable how some would have us stand by as other countries decimate our steel industry thru unfair trade practices.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I would not be betting on that, it can only be determined that all parties knew about that law before signing, and that it is addressed in the treaty. International law is very tricky stuff, and usually people don't understand how their own laws can be overturned in the Supreme court. Treaties are struck for the very reason to prevent the next administration or the same one, from unilaterally dumping it.

And, a week's notice?

That says it's either bull**** or another court fight where Trump can play victim again. No contract can be killed without proper notice so at the very most what he's announcing next week will be the date, otherwise we're in for a long, drawn out court fight. And Canada has won the last 4, including the Boeing horse****. Canada is the number one supplier of steel and aluminum so we will see next week.
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I think most steel companies in Canada are US owned.
 
JANFU said:
I think most steel companies in Canada are US owned.
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Could be. They're still Canadian jobs.

I've been to every site, heard all four CBC radio channels and they have merely run ONE item simply saying "Trump says...."

If this were a real deal I suspect some people would be going nuts by now. The news came out as Question Period began today and nothing. The news just led with the NDP provincial budget, a missing man, MEC - Mountain Equipment Co-Op confirms it is ceasing carrying 'Vista" products because that company is an arms manufacturer - MEC is the largest sporting goods supplier in Canada, has its own brands. Company is "bowing to public pressure" (they're owned by the members)

That's it for news so it's not being taken seriously here.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Could be. They're still Canadian jobs.

I've been to every site, heard all four CBC radio channels and they have merely run ONE item simply saying "Trump says...."

If this were a real deal I suspect some people would be going nuts by now. The news came out as Question Period began today and nothing. The news just led with the NDP provincial budget, a missing man, MEC - Mountain Equipment Co-Op confirms it is ceasing carrying 'Vista" products because that company is an arms manufacturer - MEC is the largest sporting goods supplier in Canada, has its own brands. Company is "bowing to public pressure" (they're owned by the members)

That's it for news so it's not being taken seriously here.
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Who know what next week will bring - oops my bad - the next day will bring- oops my bad - the next tweet will bring, finally got it right.
 
explorepahistory.com/story.php?storyId=1-9-19&chapter=3

Though the market may lose some of the recent remarkable gains that has put billions into the hands of upscale & middle class
citizens what Trump plans here is in the best interest of the country. During the war 1942-45 one state Pennsylavania
produced 20% of the worlds steel, get it, 20%
of the steel in the entire world came from Pennsylvania, it furthermore made 31% of the steel produced
in the USA. If you know math that meant that in that time period the USA was able to produce
60% of the worlds steel. We won the war because of these & similar singular edges, the availability of raw materials
& the ability to manufacture the raw materials.

China is now the worlds leading producer of steel averaging 627 metric tons of steel per year, Japan is
second 109 metric tons & the US imports steel dumped here from both of them.
So a country that produced 60% of the worlds steel during WWII is now producing one ninth of the
steel produced by a possible enemy & less than we need. How could our leaders ever allow
that to happen.

Trump will insure these disadvantages among others will change drastically, no one is
saying we need to produce 60% of the worlds anything again but Trump will make sure
we are not in these vulnerable situations in the future and a worthwhile by product of
this policy we be bringing back jobs & industry to the homeland.

Again the availability of raw materials combined with the production expertise of
the USA demonstrates the advantage this country had over its WWII adversaries, nothing
close to that exists now.
 
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Why would anyone be against creating more steel jobs in the US? These were great paying jobs back in the day and on a fair trading plane, production in the states along with jobs will go up.

It just makes sense.
 
slick said:
explorepahistory.com/story.php?storyId=1-9-19&chapter=3

Though the market may lose some of the recentremarkable gains that has put billions into the hands of upscale & middle class
citizens what Trump plans here is in the best interest of the country,During the war 1942-45 one state Pennsylavania produced 20% of the worlds steel, get it, 20%
of the steel in the entire world came from Pennsylvania, it furthermore made 31% of the steel produced
in the USA. If you know math that meant that in that time period the USA was able to produce
60% of the worlds steel. We won the war because of these & similar singular edges, the availability of raw materials
& the ability to manufacture the raw materials.

China is now the worlds leading producer of steel averaging 627 metric tons of steel per year, Japan is
second 109 metric tons & the US imports steel dumped here from both of them.
So a country that produced 60% of the worlds steel during WWII is now producing one ninth of the
steel produced by a possible enemy & less than we need. How could our leaders ever allow
that to happen.

Trump will insure these disadvantages among others will change drastically, no one is
saying we need to produce 60% of the worlds anything again but Trump will make sure
we are not in these vulnerable situations in the future and a worthwhile by product of
this policy we be bringing back jobs & industry to the homeland.

Again the availability of raw materials combined with the production expertise of
the USA demonstrates the advantage this country had over its WWII adversaries, nothing
close to that exists now.
Click to expand...

This is a different world than it was in 1940. The idea that we need to produce all we need is a antiquated notion. There is more value in finished goods than raw materials like steel or aluminium. We need to concentrate our efforts where the profits are, not put up trade barriers that will be reciprocated. All these tariffs will accomplish is to raise the cost of goods for Americans while increasing our trade imbalance.
 
iguanaman said:
This is a different world than it was in 1940. The idea that we need to produce all we need is a antiquated notion. There is more value in finished goods than raw materials like steel or aluminium. We need to concentrate our efforts where the profits are, not put up trade barriers that will be reciprocated. All these tariffs will accomplish is to raise the cost of goods for Americans while increasing our trade imbalance.
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Yea, it's a great idea to produce 1/10th the steel that China does. Thanks for offering the wealth of what you know & cluing me in.
 
iguanaman said:
This is a different world than it was in 1940. The idea that we need to produce all we need is a antiquated notion. There is more value in finished goods than raw materials like steel or aluminium. We need to concentrate our efforts where the profits are, not put up trade barriers that will be reciprocated. All these tariffs will accomplish is to raise the cost of goods for Americans while increasing our trade imbalance.
Click to expand...

The US is the 2nd largest manufacturer in the World. Surpassed by China in 2010.


It would be idiotic to not protect our manufacturing and if you feel different, make sure to have Democrats run on the platform, "your jobs don't matter" because that's basically what you're saying.
 
iguanaman said:
This is a different world than it was in 1940. The idea that we need to produce all we need is a antiquated notion. There is more value in finished goods than raw materials like steel or aluminium. We need to concentrate our efforts where the profits are, not put up trade barriers that will be reciprocated. All these tariffs will accomplish is to raise the cost of goods for Americans while increasing our trade imbalance.
Click to expand...

The world is not so different that you can run an economy without making products. Let's say it takes 200 folks to make a bunch of widgets yet only 20 to market and deliver those widgets to US customers. If we kept the 20 widget sales/service jobs but lost the the 200 widget making jobs (to China?) then that is 200 unemployed widget making folks that are now free to do what?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The world is not so different that you can run an economy without making products. Let's say it takes 200 folks to make a bunch of widgets yet only 20 to market and deliver those widgets to US customers. If we kept the 20 widget sales/service jobs but lost the the 200 widget making jobs (to China?) then that is 200 unemployed widget making folks that are now free to do what?
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You didn't read very well. There is more profit from selling automobiles made with steel than on the steel in them. Same goes with any other product made with steel or aluminum. As an advanced nation we need to stick with high profit items that provide good paying jobs for Americans. Those jobs are in jeopardy if a trade war makes those high value products no longer exportable because of retaliatory tariffs on American goods. We cannot make every "widget" and expect wages that are satisfactory for Americans. Jobs for low profit items are not coming back nor should they.
 
dobieg said:
The US is the 2nd largest manufacturer in the World. Surpassed by China in 2010.


It would be idiotic to not protect our manufacturing and if you feel different, make sure to have Democrats run on the platform, "your jobs don't matter" because that's basically what you're saying.
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Tariffs on raw materials will place the jobs of millions in jeopardy. Trade wars always hurt all involved. Check your history books.
 
dobieg said:
I can't believe I have to tell you we still produce steel in this country.


https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/steel-production
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Read your own link. It proves my point:

Steel Production in the United States averaged 7924.35 Thousand Tonnes from 1969 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 11951 Thousand Tonnes in May of 1973 and a record low of 3799 Thousand Tonnes in April of 2009.
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And where did I say we don't produce steel in this country? The industry most definitely has been decimated though.
 
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