They are not Christians

[Slartibartfast]

How about Romans 1? You keep avoiding Romans 1.

It’s laughable that you would compare eating bacon to defiling the body. That’s no argument.

You really can't understand the last part of Romans 1 well without comparing it to the first part of Romans 2

Romans 1 - These people deserve death
Romans 2 - Well actually, we all deserve death without salvation, be humble and nonjudgmental about it because you* suck too

They go hand in hand. This is overall consistent with Paul's stance of servant leadership.

*(general you, not you specifically)

 

[tonyeveland]

Science has a good idea, and back with actual objective evidence too. Creationism, not even a little.

Projection.

Bullshit.

Explain just a small amount of the "actual objective evidence". Just a clue. Anything

 

[Gordy327]

Bullshit.

Explain just a small amount of the "actual objective evidence". Just a clue. Anything

Specify for what.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Bullshit.

Explain just a small amount of the "actual objective evidence". Just a clue. Anything

Can you present your "God"?
Do you have anything besides the Bible and your "feelings"?

 

[tonyeveland]

Can you present your "God"?
Do you have anything besides the Bible and your "feelings"?

To "see" God you must have an open mind. You don't have a chance.

I searched for decades for an alternative to Creation.

Tell me what you have

 

[tonyeveland]

Specify for what.

What does "Specify for what." mean?

Just tell me about your alternative to Creation.

 

[Gordy327]

What does "Specify for what." mean?

Just tell me about your alternative to Creation.

"Creation" is a broad term. Specify what is created. I asked previously if you mean the origin of the universe or humans, as examples.

 

[Gordy327]

To "see" God you must have an open mind. You don't have a chance.

I searched for decades for an alternative to Creation.

Tell me what you have

Some of us are open minded to evidence. What evidence do you have for God or biblical "creation?" Are you open .indeed enough to accept your beliefs might be wrong?

 

[Crakhobarbie]

To "see" God you must have an open mind.

No.
To "see" God, all you need is a vivid imagination, or some good hallucinogens.
your belief is God is based on faith.
Nothing more.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

What does "Specify for what." mean?

Just tell me about your alternative to Creation.

The sun was formed from the collapse of a solar nebula 4.5 billion years ago instead of being spoken into existence 6000 years ago.

That's the alternative I am going with.

 

[yankintx]

The Far-right religious groups call themselves Christians, but they are not. Everything they stand for is totally against everything that Jesus Christ taught us when he was here on earth. Even their hatred of those not like them violates the creed that Jesus taught. They really think that by limiting what their children read is going to make them the new soldiers of the far right, but their children will end up hating them and leaving their churches as fast as they can. I always think of Jesus telling the little children to come to him. He did not say come to me except you who are gay and not you the one who my father made transgender.

Most are what I call cafeteria Christians. They take what they want from what's offered, and leave behind what does not suit.

 

[Gordy327]

No.
To "see" God, all you need is a vivid imagination, or some good hallucinogens.
your belief is God is based on faith.
Nothing more.

Well, delusions or other psychological ailments also help in that regard.

 

[weaver2]

Malarky.
ACTs 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy. For the Lord your God is gracious and compassionate.

Yeah, but the sins Jesus had in mind were intolerance of others, greed, selfishness, hypocrisy, worshipping Trump, picking and choosing Bible verses to suit your latest hate, screwing alter boys and/or the choir ladies, spreading propaganda from Fox and repeating the lies of Lila Rose, David Daleidon, Frank Pavone, Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, Family Research Council, 40 Days for Life and Phillip of Masterpiece Cakes. Jesus doesn't give a rat's ass if you frost a cake for a gay wedding, associate with atheists, get an abortion, gush out a wedding announcement for a lesbians, change sexes, read a racy novel, use birth control, dance, wear you hair short, rim the corners of your beard.

 

[it's just me]

There Is nothing about our universe that requires a supernatural creator - as far as we know. Everything tell us that the universe is unimaginably huge, chaotic, and that we are the result of a happy accident - as opposed to a planned creation. If you ask me what I believe, that is what I will say, and call myself an atheist. If you ask me what I can prove, I admit that there is a possibility that such a supernatural being exists - because we cannot prove a negative. I just don’t see any reason to believe it.

 

[Crunchtime]

The sun was formed from the collapse of a solar nebula 4.5 billion years ago instead of being spoken into existence 6000 years ago.

That's the alternative I am going with.

And what was before the sun? A solar nebula? Who says so? How do they know? I read something different.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

There was nothing, sort of, and then suddenly there was something. It was dark and then it was light. Nothing became something.

 

[Gordy327]

And what was before the sun? A solar nebula? Who says so? How do they know? I read something different.

Because science knows and observes how stars form.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

There was nothing, sort of, and then suddenly there was something. It was dark and then it was light. Nothing became something.

What was before god?

 

[upsideguy]

The Far-right religious groups call themselves Christians, but they are not. Everything they stand for is totally against everything that Jesus Christ taught us when he was here on earth. Even their hatred of those not like them violates the creed that Jesus taught. They really think that by limiting what their children read is going to make them the new soldiers of the far right, but their children will end up hating them and leaving their churches as fast as they can. I always think of Jesus telling the little children to come to him. He did not say come to me except you who are gay and not you the one who my father made transgender.

Amen...

Sorry I missed this discussion earlier as this is very much a topic of interest. I do believe many evangelical Christians have gone completely off the rails to the point where their behaviors and values seem antithetical to Christ's teachings. This begs the question as to whether they ever knew Christ in the first place. Many of this people are doing the "Devil's Work" pushing people away from Christ by their obvious (though likely unintentional) hypocrisy ("forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do")

Too many of them have become intoxicated with their perceived political power to the point they are choosing that over Christ, suggesting the Christ is too woke.

Evangelicals are now rejecting 'liberal' teachings of Jesus

Christian devotees of former President Donald Trump are denouncing Bible verses attributed to Jesus as "weak," according to an evangelical leader.

www.newsweek.com

Top evangelical says churchgoers view Jesus quotes as ‘liberal talking points’, warns Christianity ‘in crisis’

Russell Moore has warned that American Christianity is in crisis — with some churchgoers viewing the teachings of Jesus Christ as nothing more than “liberal talking points.”

nypost.com

Christianity Today Editor: Evangelicals Call Jesus “Liberal” and “Weak”

A former evangelical leader is sounding the alarm about the direction his religion is headed in.

newrepublic.com

How do you reject the teaching of Christ, yet call yourself Christian? I have been reading a bit on this subject as its quite fascination. But, my God, there are a lot of lost Christian souls.

Malarky.
ACTs 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy. For the Lord your God is gracious and compassionate.

NOT malarky at all. In fact, it is a very appropriate and timely question that requires reflection by any God-fearing Christian. Do our lives well illustrate our convictions and thereby promote Christ? Do we well represent Christ in our lives? That is a question we should be asking ourselves each day, maybe multiple times in a day and certainly in our prayers. The fact that the OP sees this issue should give us all pause.

I am not a Christian because I do not believe in many of those 'Christian miracles' most importantly the resurrection of Christ for my sins, or that the Christian God exists. But as I recall it, a lot of Christians are not especially good at prioritizing their values consistent with the biblical teachings. Are we wise to decide who is or is not a Christian based on that criteria? That's above our pay grade. There are a lot more Christians than there are exemplary examples of Christian teachings. I think that's true of any faith. Its an aspiration, as much as a state of being.

It's not above anyone's pay grade. As Christ revealed, you can tell Christians by the fruit they bear. He wants us to be known within the community. If we are Christians, it should be obvious in our thoughts and in our deeds.

Matthew 7: 16:20. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

If you do not recognize the fruit of a Christian as fruit that should be borne by a Christian, it is correct to question whether that person is indeed knows the Word and lives the Word. Indeed, it is right to call them out, and question if they indeed know God, as was done in the OP.

This is why anyone the professes to be Christian, should live the Christian life. That does not mean being perfect, as all fall short of the glory of God, surely means to strive for such.

Matthew 5: 48.

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[btthegreat]

Amen...

Sorry I missed this discussion earlier as this is very much a topic of interest. I do believe many evangelical Christians have gone completely off the rails to the point where their behaviors and values seem antithetical to Christ's teachings. This begs the question as to whether they ever knew Christ in the first place. Many of this people are doing the "Devil's Work" pushing people away from Christ by their obvious (though likely unintentional) hypocrisy ("forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do")

Too many of them have become intoxicated with their perceived political power to the point they are choosing that over Christ, suggesting the Christ is too woke.

Evangelicals are now rejecting 'liberal' teachings of Jesus

Christian devotees of former President Donald Trump are denouncing Bible verses attributed to Jesus as "weak," according to an evangelical leader.

www.newsweek.com

Top evangelical says churchgoers view Jesus quotes as ‘liberal talking points’, warns Christianity ‘in crisis’

Russell Moore has warned that American Christianity is in crisis — with some churchgoers viewing the teachings of Jesus Christ as nothing more than “liberal talking points.”

nypost.com

Christianity Today Editor: Evangelicals Call Jesus “Liberal” and “Weak”

A former evangelical leader is sounding the alarm about the direction his religion is headed in.

newrepublic.com

How do you reject the teaching of Christ, yet call yourself Christian? I have been reading a bit on this subject as its quite fascination. But, my God, there are a lot of lost Christian souls.


NOT malarky at all. In fact, it is a very appropriate and timely question that requires reflection by any God-fearing Christian. Do our lives well illustrate our convictions and thereby promote Christ? Do we well represent Christ in our lives? That is a question we should be asking ourselves each day, maybe multiple times in a day and certainly in our prayers. The fact that the OP sees this issue should give us all pause.

It's not above anyone's pay grade. As Christ revealed, you can tell Christians by the fruit they bear. He wants us to be known within the community. If we are Christians, it should be obvious in our thoughts and in our deeds.



If you do not recognize the fruit of a Christian as fruit that should be borne by a Christian, it is correct to question whether that person is indeed knows the Word and lives the Word. Indeed, it is right to call them out, and question if they indeed know God, as was done in the OP.

This is why anyone the professes to be Christian, should live the Christian life. That does not mean being perfect, as all fall short of the glory of God, surely means to strive for such.

Nothing is obvious in our 'thoughts'. Christians are not provided with telepathic attributes. Non Christians can act exactly like Christians, talk like Christians and pretend to believe in Christ as a messiah and savior. Are they Christians if they bear the same fruit, but do believe in the same master, the same creator?

 

[upsideguy]

Nothing is obvious in our 'thoughts'. Christians are not provided with telepathic attributes. Non Christians can act exactly like Christians, talk like Christians and pretend to believe in Christ as a messiah and savior. Are they Christians if they bear the same fruit, but do believe in the same master, the same creator?

If that went by you, I am sorry. The Bible tends to speak to people differently based on where they are in their walk. The lesson I take from Matthew 7, that is if you are truly in Christ, its pretty obvious to others that are in Christ, and generally should be obvious to others that are not. Your actions and manner speak for you. Your thoughts will manifest themselves in Christ-like action, manner and even speech.

If you find yourself questioning the heart of a Christians based upon their action, manner and speech, your question is likely well founded. I was trying to tell you that even if you are not Christian, you likely know a strong Christian when you see one. If someone merely tells you they are, but you see no fruit in their lives, they likely have a ways to go. Now, don't confuse that with such people are perfect, near perfect or sin-free, they absolutely are not.

As to the last question, yes, being a Christian does involve acceptance of Christ as your savior. You can be a good person and not be a Christian. I am addressing people that do not appear to be good persons, but proclaim to be Christian, of which there are far too many.

That said, Matthew 7 is meant to challenge Christians to realize their walk is obvious to others. If you claim to be in Christ, make sure its obvious that you are in Christ. If you leave others in doubt, you need to do some soul-searching.

 

[Mike1950]

This is a huge subject and it's very troubling. One of my concerns is that Trump and his MAGA followers come the closest thing to fitting the Bible's prediction for a Anti Christ. First thing is they seem too only believe in a strangely interpreted version of Revelations, parts of Paul's preaching and very select parts of the Old Testament. They seldom refer to anything that Jesus said and when they do it's usually a misinterpretation. On the few occasions when Trump was asked for an example of something he had to ask for God's forgiveness he has more than once answered that he really hasn't ever done anything that he would need to ask forgiveness for. When asked what church he belonged to he named the church that Norman Vincent Peale preached at. that church quickly put out a release saying that he had never been a member of that church. Then he named another church he said he attended and then that church said he had never been a member of that one. Being caught in these lies didn't faze him one bit.

He has referred to himself as The Chosen One at his rallies. He said the Israel should consider him their King. When reading the Teachings of Jesus not only does he not fit anything Christ taught he behaves in the exact opposite. You never hear him say anything that's scripture no matter how often he's been asked. He just waves off such questions by saying the whole Bible is so beautiful he can't pick out any one thing. He's about the only person I've ever seen who can't repeat anything from the Bible and that includes people who have never been to church, agnostics and atheists. He even appears to be so lazy and uninterested in even learning just a couple of lines for such occasions.

There is so much more than just this. Too much for just one posting.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

This is a huge subject and it's very troubling. One of my concerns is that Trump and his MAGA followers come the closest thing to fitting the Bible's prediction for a Anti Christ. First thing is they seem too only believe in a strangely interpreted version of Revelations, parts of Paul's preaching and very select parts of the Old Testament. They seldom refer to anything that Jesus said and when they do it's usually a misinterpretation. On the few occasions when Trump was asked for an example of something he had to ask for God's forgiveness he has more than once answered that he really hasn't ever done anything that he would need to ask forgiveness for. When asked what church he belonged to he named the church that Norman Vincent Peale preached at. that church quickly put out a release saying that he had never been a member of that church. Then he named another church he said he attended and then that church said he had never been a member of that one. Being caught in these lies didn't faze him one bit.

He has referred to himself as The Chosen One at his rallies. He said the Israel should consider him their King. When reading the Teachings of Jesus not only does he not fit anything Christ taught he behaves in the exact opposite. You never hear him say anything that's scripture no matter how often he's been asked. He just waves off such questions by saying the whole Bible is so beautiful he can't pick out any one thing. He's about the only person I've ever seen who can't repeat anything from the Bible and that includes people who have never been to church, agnostics and atheists. He even appears to be so lazy and uninterested in even learning just a couple of lines for such occasions.

There is so much more than just this. Too much for just one posting.

Welcome to the forum Mike.

 

[Mike1950]

Welcome to the forum Mike.

Thank you.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The Far-right religious groups call themselves Christians, but they are not. Everything they stand for is totally against everything that Jesus Christ taught us when he was here on earth. Even their hatred of those not like them violates the creed that Jesus taught. They really think that by limiting what their children read is going to make them the new soldiers of the far right, but their children will end up hating them and leaving their churches as fast as they can. I always think of Jesus telling the little children to come to him. He did not say come to me except you who are gay and not you the one who my father made transgender.

what I don't understand is how you can be so hateful and still claim to love Jesus!

 

[forn]

what I don't understand is how you can be so hateful and still claim to love Jesus!

From what I see, the left is far more hateful than the right. Look at Trump, I have never seen so much hate directed at one person (and his supporters) in my entire lifetime.

 

[Mike1950]

From what I see, the left is far more hateful than the right. Look at Trump, I have never seen so much hate directed at one person (and his supporters) in my entire lifetime.

hating someone for being a traitor to their country, a crook and a rapist, etc. is not inappropriate. Hating them because they are the first Black president or just have different views is inappropriate.