The handwriting on the wall

[Mac77]

That part is true as well, but the purge of union jobs and strength is the real reason that the demand side of our economy has lost so much ground in the last 36 years.

Unions have their place

But in states where union membership was manditory the unions overreached and ended up hurting the workers

The unions have to be smart and not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

However all workers both union or not were stabbed in the back by the globalist politicians in washington

 

[jet57]

Unions have their place

But in states where union membership was manditory the unions overreached and ended up hurting the workers

The unions have to be smart and not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

However all workers both union or not were stabbed in the back by the globalist politicians in washington

Your first line couldn't be further from the truth if you got paid to write it.

Your last line omits the reality that without protections you are subjected to whatever the employer wants and even more regulation.

 

[Northern Light]

The irony that few people seem to be honing in on here is that what's happening is a natural phenomenon of global capitalism. We created it, we exported it, and now it is superseding our own domestic economy. This was supposed to happen, by design. The neo-liberal globalists have zero loyalty to any one country, just to their profits. The plus side is that we have the early framework for a kind of global cooperative, if the fiduciary responsibility can be shifted to something other than pure profit. The downside is that's unlikely to happen without significant conflict. The old regime is still clinging tightly to their coffers and they won't let go without playing a hard chess game with sovereign nations.

I'm eternally curious about what it's going to take for some of the key countries, like the United States, to rise up in greater force to end the insanity. My feeling is that the virtues that made the U.S. so great in the first place, like independence and autonomy, will come in handy for resetting the global playing field... but first people have to wake up from their media haze and start really understanding who is trying to control them.

 

[Mac77]

Your first line couldn't be further from the truth if you got paid to write it.

Your last line omits the reality that without protections you are subjected to whatever the employer wants and even more regulation.

The best protection for workers is to remove the oversupply of labor caused by immigration and free trade

 

[Mac77]

The irony that few people seem to be honing in on here is that what's happening is a natural phenomenon of global capitalism.

We created it, we exported it, and now it is superseding our own domestic economy.

This was supposed to happen, by design. The neo-liberal globalists have zero loyalty to any one country, just to their profits. The plus side is that we have the early framework for a kind of global cooperative, if the fiduciary responsibility can be shifted to something other than pure profit. The downside is that's unlikely to happen without significant conflict. The old regime is still clinging tightly to their coffers and they won't let go without playing a hard chess game with sovereign nations.

I'm eternally curious about what it's going to take for some of the key countries, like the United States, to rise up in greater force to end the insanity. My feeling is that the virtues that made the U.S. so great in the first place, like independence and autonomy, will come in handy for resetting the global playing field... but first people have to wake up from their media haze and start really understanding who is trying to control them.

Globalism will supercede our economy only if America allows it to

Otherwise we can have protectionism and balanced trade only

 

[James972]

Unions have their place

1) you mean like driving 15 million jobs off shore???
2) you mean like ripping off non union workers by driving up prices that they have to pay with their non union wages??

anybody with intelligence knows unions should be made illegal again.

 

[James972]

Globalism will supercede our economy only if America allows it to

Otherwise we can have protectionism and balanced trade only

trade between people cities states and countries enriches us all obviously. The more with whom you trade the richer you get. Children know this.

 

[James972]

Globalism will supercede our economy only if America allows it to

shall we limit trade between rich and poor areas of America too??? Liberalism is the total absence of thought-right?

 

[James972]

The best protection for workers is to remove the oversupply of labor caused by immigration and free trade

yep ship 30 million illegals home would open 30 million jobs for real Americans and generate huge upward pressure on wages!! Liberals oppose of course. Hillary dreamed of open borders. Workers are consumers too so free trade enriches them. Complex concept over a liberals head.

 

[Mac77]

yep ship 30 million illegals home would open 30 million jobs for real Americans and generate huge upward pressure on wages!! Liberals oppose of course. Hillary dreamed of open borders. Workers are consumers too so free trade enriches them. Complex concept over a liberals head.

Sometimes the best answers are too simple for some people to understand

 

[James972]

Sometimes the best answers are too simple for some people to understand

simple or complex a liberal will be unable to understand them.

 

[Mac77]

1) you mean like driving 15 million jobs off shore???
2) you mean like ripping off non union workers by driving up prices that they have to pay with their non union wages??

anybody with intelligence knows unions should be made illegal again.

Free trade drove the jobs offshore

Without that jobs may have shifted from union states to right-to-work states within the US economy

And before the unions lost all their members they would have compromised and adapted

But thats not possible when your competition is in Mexico or India and lives in a cardboard box making a dollar a day or less

 

[Lord of Planar]

For that to happen, however, we must have a Tertiary Education system that is far less costly. Only one out of every two American kids who graduate with a high-school degree go on to obtain a post-graduate degree. Whyzzat?

So let me get this right.

You want McDonalds employees to have to have a 4 yr degree to be hired...

 

[Lord of Planar]

What % of US jobs require a degree? Is it over 50% - your claimed current % of degreed applicants? If not then what we will have is downward pressure on degree required job wages - more qualified applicants than open positions means that lower salary offers will be accepted.

Crickets....

Yep. Supply and demand will lower the wages of those jobs.

We already have more college educated citizens than are working in the fields they trained.

What we need is to bring manufacturing jobs back to our shores, and stop allowing illegal immigrants to work.

 

[Northern Light]

Globalism will supercede our economy only if America allows it to

Otherwise we can have protectionism and balanced trade only

Seems pretty clear that the establishment is allowing it. :shrug:

That's because the people running the show, although American by birth, see themselves as above sovereign states.

 

[Mach]

I have helped many people over the course of my life to achieve improved degrees of financial security both here and overseas. In fact I derive a great deal of satisfaction seeing others prosper, but then my goal is not to exploit them.

Sure you have.
Exploitation is primarily a concern in third world and developing countries. Stop acting as though you have any evidence that top income earners in the U.S. are doing what they do for "exploitation". It's terrible of you to do so.

The lust for material goods can and does become an addiction and a religion unto itself. It can never be satisfied for those who believe materialism is where contentment will be achieved.

You have it exactly wrong. The freedom to pursue ones lust for material goods in a regulated market economy is one of the greatest inventions in modern history, and is part of what makes the west, and capitalism in general, such a wild success at lifting historically astounding levels of people out of absolute poverty, into the modern age.

You just don't get it. Instead of raping and pillaging, we have CEOs that contribute to your 401K portfolio so you can retire, and train, hire, and invest in our economy, under federal and state corporate and labor regulations. It's so brilliant that if one person had figured all this out, we'd refer to them as Little Jesus...and I'm not even religious.

Some people do it only for power, not for material goods at all, you actually really engaged in our economy.
Some people do it to keep with the Jones's in terms of career progression, caring little for power or money.
Some do it for joy, some for hate, some because they have really just been on auto-pilot of most of their career, and when where they were asked to, and did a good job when told.
And everything i between. this is how a free marketplace works, no jackass is here to tell you, even though you don't appreciate it, what your job is, or why you should do it. It's facism to try and force people to live and work in the manner in which you proclaim from up high...

The fact is, either the "haves" in this world must learn how to share with the "have not's", or they will find themselves defending themselves from the masses who are fighting for survival.

100% nonsense.

In the U.S., we provide federal assistance to poverty level and above, for those of low or no income. Survival is not at stake for most of the poor in the U.S., you are making that up.
Furthermore, the "haves" already pay the vast majority of our federal tax burden! The top 20% earners pay 84% of all income taxes.
You are trivially shown to be wrong in every meaningful way.

Meanwhile we had occupy wall street, the big bad hipsters and pot smokers with starbucks in one hand, cell phones in the other, protesting...well, they didn't ****ing have a clue what they were really protesting, but they sure had fun and were "part of a major event!". It went nowhere and did nothing, because everyone knows including them, that their standard of living is so high, that it puts most of the free world, and certainly most everyone in human history, to complete and utter shame.

 

[James972]

What we need is to bring manufacturing jobs back to our shores, and stop allowing illegal immigrants to work.

yep eliminate the idiotic Democratic corporate tax (highest in world) and bring back 10 million jobs in a year!! Democrats are for the worker class by driving their jobs off shore!! It should an illegal scam but Democrats get away with it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

yep eliminate the idiotic corporate tax and bring back 10 million jobs in a year!!

That would be one way to do it. The share holders pay taxes on the corporations through their shares, then taxes on their income. Why is that necessary?

 

[James972]

That would be one way to do it. The share holders pay taxes on the corporations through their shares, then taxes on their income. Why is that necessary?

yes, stockholders pay tax on dividend income, capital gains income, and receive less of each income since corporate profit is also taxed before it is distributed to stockholders.

Its a stupid liberal scam that has driven 10 million jobs offshore. Thats how Democrats support the worker!!

"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."

-- Thomas Paine

 

[austrianlib]

Stupid argument. Automobiles do not have the ability to produce themselves. See the difference.

But robots do?

 

[Lafayette]

The drive to get higher educations in the wake of the NAFTA roll out began in the early 90's, everyone knew that entry level and production line jobs would slowly vanish.

Trump has sold a pig in a poke convincing fools that the simple solution is to tear up NAFTA; good luck with that. Tearing up NAFTA will not restore high paying low skilled jobs. Those days are over.

Well put.

The regressive attitude has caught the American mentality - Trump has captured the mindset.

Like all such mentalities it is fixated on just one thing, jobs-jobs-jobs. This happens frequently when the people are asked their opinion. They respond with emotion and not clever thinking.

What's a country to do? What can America do?

Not much, until this present wave has crested. Till then, keep working at the bottom of the pile whilst the top of the pile does what it only knows how to do - make megabucks-of-moolah on our sweat

Those with a functional brain could boycott Trumpery Enterprises. Avoid the casinos, the hotels, the properties, etc., etc., etc.

It's not much, but something ...

 

[Lafayette]

Wages are nowhere near what they once were and good benefits and a future are long gone. THAT'S what's happening.

For sure, there will be no further attempt at a national minimum-wage. So, neither will there be much of a remedy for the Poverty Threshold people working at 7 bucks-an-hour. A decent minimum wage is double that sum, which thinking-heads in California and NYC have instituted. And some others*.

Let's not give up hope entirely - one victory does not make for an annihilating defeat ...

*See the list of cities here. It's not very long.

 

[Lafayette]

So let me get this right. You want McDonalds employees to have to have a 4 yr degree to be hired...

Not really.

But it would be nice to see people who read my posts and do not come to such mindless conclusions.

Of course, given the general level of clientele here in this forum, neither am I the least bit surprised ...

 

[Lafayette]

THE INCOME VOMIT

I think it's more accurate to attribute the plight of working class people who are falling behind mainly to natural economic forces and trends, rather than actions of people at the very top of the pyramid (but that doesn't mean that a very small percentage of people don't have unjustifiably high incomes due to the way our capitalistic system works).

No, I would not let management off so lightly. They have been part and parcel of a corrupt system wholly unfair.

And it will not be fair until our industry and commerce are forced to assure that total compensation is fair and equitable. Meaning that "reward management" must change wholly. How? It must not be discriminatory.

There are various rewards in any company. Have a look here, if interested. Rewards come in to kinds, Extrinsic and Intrinsic for purposes of motivation; the former tangible (monetary) and the latter intangible (recognition).

My point is that these "rewards for performance" should not be reserved, either in part or in whole, for specific groups within a corporate structure. They should be distributed perhaps not equally* but equitably throughout.

They may not all be "equal" in proportion, but they must be equitable - ie. applicable to all differing only in degree of applicability. Which is simply a question of fairness.

But, that is hardly the case in the US (and only minorly in the EU). The far, far larger part of rewards go to upper-management, where they are not progressively taxed. Which is why we have in the US a lop-sided upper-income taxation system that is literally "vomiting Net Income into Wealth".

This "vomit" starts at the flat-rate taxation level of $100K (household income), and continues up to and including the 0.1Percenters. Given bounteous tax-boondoggles, they are far less than the 30%-level shown elsewhere:

and


I've known many companies in my lifetime of work - and in not one was a company's success due only to a handful of managers at the top. Oh yes, they may have though-so. But the real truth is that a company is entirely successful or not at all.

Quite simply, the above examples are unacceptable in a fair and just economic system ...

*These depend upon the type of reward. There are "group awards" that can be of a financial nature.

 

[LessBiased?]

^ The top 0.1% is where you need to focus your attention, IMO. The income threshold for entering this category is about $1.5 million, and the sky is the limit from there, with some people known to have taken in more than $1 billion a year.

By definition, people in top 0.1% are rare. Owners and managers of small and medium sized businesses rarely make it to this level.

People in the top 0.1% are able to reduce their tax rates in ways that aren't accessible to everyone else. I personally believe it would be "fair" for loopholes to be gotten rid of and the federal income tax rate to go up progressively and substantially for incomes beyond about $1 million, with a top tax rate starting at say $100 million.

Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%