The handwriting on the wall

[LessBiased?]

actually the beauty of Republican capitalism is you benefit disproportionately when you contribute disproportionately. You could benefit wildly too all you gotta do is invent something everybody wants to buy more than anything else on earth. Do you have anything other than jealousy??Its sort of like you have to be a saint under capitalism. You want the guy inventing a cure for cancer to always benefit more not less. Now do you understand?

Your characterization of what I said is inaccurate, so it appears that you're not understanding my points, and further discussion on this topic with you is unlikely to be productive. That's fine, no harm done.

I would welcome comments and discussion which respond to what I actually said.

 

[James972]

I would welcome comments and discussion which respond to what I actually said.

you said, in effect, some benefit disproportionately from Republican capitalism and so should be ripped off at gun point by liberals collecting taxes for even more crippling welfare. I said you don't want to rip off the guy working on a cure for cancer but rather give him every incentive you can.

 

[LessBiased?]

you said, in effect, some benefit disproportionately from Republican capitalism and so should be ripped off at gun point by liberals collecting taxes for even more crippling welfare. I said you don't want to rip off the guy working on a cure for cancer but rather give him every incentive you can.

If you claim that's what I said, there's no need for us to discuss this further. What we've both said is there for others to read for themselves, and they can chime in as they think appropriate.

 

[Mac77]

Are you saying that Trump is an improvement then?

I think so

 

[James972]

If you claim that's what I said, there's no need for us to discuss this further. What we've both said is there for others to read for themselves, and they can chime in as they think appropriate.

Why are you so afraid to say what you really said? Maybe you should try again rather than run away?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Why not then go further and say that everyone should pay the same tax in absolute dollars, rather than the same tax rate? That would be a true "flat" tax, rather than tax increasing with income.

I don't even like what I brought up, but I think it would be the easier and better solution vs. what we have now. What you are calling a "true flat tax" is silly in my view.

There's no formula for tax rates which can be shown to be objectively "correct" or even "fair".

No matter what is changed, someone will gain and someone will lose.

So I take a step back and ask how much of their income a person should be able to keep, considering that very high incomes are largely due to the overall system created collectively by many generations, rather than solely individual ability and effort.

How about, not matter what method is derived, we have a minimum and maximum tax on a persons gross income. Maybe a minimum of 5% and a maximum of 25%.

The most capable person will be working hard just to survive (literally) if they have to live off the land as part of a small group.

There is no free land for that to happen any longer.

There was no one like a Warren Buffet or Donald Trump during the pre-domestication era of human history which lasted many tens of thousands of years.

But there were rulers.

So my argument is that incomes above say $1 million are increasingly due to the system, rather than individual effort and merit, so an increasingly large percentage of those incomes should be returned back to the system. The fact that the opposite happens, with effective tax rates actually dropping for the top 0.1%, shows that they've managed to rig the system in their favor and are using their powerful influence on our government to keep it rigged. Both parties are complicit in this, and meanwhile the 99% or 99.9% are getting duped.

Yet, if we were to tax at the same percentage, all income above a specific point, these people would pay progressively more money with greater income.

 

[Lord of Planar]

We export (sell) about $70 bil a year to china but they sell up to $500 billion a year to us.

So who has more to lose by a trade war?

Oh, so true.

Let the trade wars begin!

 

[Lord of Planar]

Because they can?

Why is a progressive tax considered fair and equitable (at all levels of income)? It's a matter of debate.

So, you are a Karl Marx fan I take it:

“In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!”
​

 

[Mach]

You are either delusional or a shill for the establishment. In either case your are beyond any enlightenment that I may bestow. Have a nice life.

Don't insult me just because you got called out on your B.S., and you have no cause to debate.

 

[Lord of Planar]

exactly, next liberals will force the rich to pay more at the supermarket.

I thought they already saw to that with SNAP.

My God. I see these people buying all kinds of costly goods on SNAP. I think we should have free Home Economics classes for everyone on SNAP, and limit the purchases to basic foods, and make them cook from scratch.

No more candy, sodas, TV dinners, etc.

We need to seriously curtail this expenditure, and add to the reasons people want to better themselves.

 

[Mac77]

Oh, so true.

Let the trade wars begin!

Hopefully not.

But if we must that is their choice

Average Americans need protection from trade agreements that mske them poorer

 

[Mac77]

I thought they already saw to that with SNAP.

My God. I see these people buying all kinds of costly goods on SNAP. I think we should have free Home Economics classes for everyone on SNAP, and limit the purchases to basic foods, and make them cook from scratch.

No more candy, sodas, TV dinners, etc.

We need to seriously curtail this expenditure, and add to the reasons people want to better themselves.

That is so true.

Badic assistance only to prevent starvation and nothing more.

 

[James972]

That is so true.

Badic assistance only to prevent starvation and nothing more.

yes, there was moral hazard when bankers were bailed out with loans they paid back but no moral hazard when failing individuals are bailed out with various forms of welfare that they never pay back, not even one penny.

 

[Mac77]

yes, there was moral hazard when bankers were bailed out with loans they paid back but no moral hazard when failing individuals are bailed out with various forms of welfare that they never pay back, not even one penny.

There was a moral hazard to both

Why do you blame me for what bish and obama did?

 

[James972]

There was a moral hazard to both

obviously, 100,000% more moral hazard when you bail out a failed individual for life with various welfare programs and without a penny payback than with a quick loan to a bank that is quickly paid back.