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The 1950s are coming back

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i just ignore them when they show themselves to be that ignorant or dishonest.

It's dishonest to suggest that because Democrats are more liberal than Republicans now, that they were 150 years ago.

It's like saying that because the original 13 states were British once, that they still are British now.
 
It's dishonest to suggest that because Democrats are more liberal than Republicans now, that they were 150 years ago.

It's like saying that because the original 13 states were British once, that they still are British now.

what are you even talking about?
 
It's dishonest to suggest that because Democrats are more liberal than Republicans now, that they were 150 years ago.

It's like saying that because the original 13 states were British once, that they still are British now.

?????

I said that Republicans were the liberal party after the Civil War.
What are you trying to say?
 
?????

I said that Republicans were the liberal party after the Civil War.
What are you trying to say?

Surprisingly I'm saying it's dishonest to present Democrats as liberals in the 1800s.

What do you think I was saying?
 
Surprisingly I'm saying it's dishonest to present Democrats as liberals in the 1800s.

What do you think I was saying?

I couldn't figure it out.
Yes, the Democrats were the party of the segregationists in the post Civil War era, the GOP were relatively "liberal".
But parties change their ideology all the time, and our two main parties have both undergone sea changes on several occasions.

The last time the Dems made a change that large, they tossed the blue collar labor folks overboard and cozied up to Wall Street and East Coast elites and faux "conserv-a-Dems"... but the time before that, they tossed the Southern segregationist Dixiecrat Dems overboard.
They became George Wallace voters, then Nixon romanced them and turned them all Republican Red...the Southern Strategy.
 
I couldn't figure it out.
Yes, the Democrats were the party of the segregationists in the post Civil War era, the GOP were relatively "liberal".
But parties change their ideology all the time, and our two main parties have both undergone sea changes on several occasions.

The last time the Dems made a change that large, they tossed the blue collar labor folks overboard and cozied up to Wall Street and East Coast elites and faux "conserv-a-Dems"... but the time before that, they tossed the Southern segregationist Dixiecrat Dems overboard.
They became George Wallace voters, then Nixon romanced them and turned them all Republican Red...the Southern Strategy.

And the biggest problem is when people use such facts to misrepresent. Happens a lot out there.

Just as Hitler gets presented as left wing because the NSDAP has the word "Socialist" in it.

It's becoming a massive problem in this partisan politics age. Where both sides of the partisan debate are trying to paint themselves as something, when really they should be sticking to the present and politics. But this isn't possible with only two viable politic parties. As they have to try and attract so many people, the insulting, the accusations and all of that are ridiculous.
 
Many liberals see the rise of Trump and far-right leaders in Europe, the Philippines and other parts of the world as a repeat of the fascist rise of Hitler, Mussolini and Francisco Franco. But if history is truly repeating itself, the defeat of fascism in this century will be followed not by a progressive paradise but by a post-World War II-type era of social conservatism and bourgeoise ideals: the “1950s,” a period often mocked and derided by the left.

If the 1950s are coming back, look for woman to focus more on family and children and less on careers. The alphabet soup can of LGBQT will be pushed to the rear of the pantry. The self-segregation by ideology occurring now may be extended to self-segregation by lifestyle and race. The cosmopolitan elites will persevere, but they will lose much of their influence in the media.

While the culture will move right, a liberal amount of government intervention will be required to focus on the family. For example, generous Social Security credits might be given to stay-at-home moms.

View attachment 67256461

I've said for years the right is still living in the nineteen fifties where father knows best and mom serves dinner in a dress.
 
While the culture will move right, a liberal amount of government intervention will be required to focus on the family. For example, generous Social Security credits might be given to stay-at-home moms.

Questions for thread participants: The scope of the discussion has gone far into the more abstract but I'd still like to explore the OP in a more practical sense.

As I asked earlier, would such financial incentives be offered to families where the male stayed home too? Or gay and lesbian couples?

If yes, would this be a good program to pilot perhaps in a state? Provide a financial incentive to help enable one parent to remain home with the children up to school age? When all kids are of school age, the payments/tax credits end.

(I dont understand how it would be helpful to use social security credits tho...why not just a major tax credit or monthly payment thru an agency already set up? I think it's the 'credits' thing that threw me off, as I believe the families would need cash.)

And of course, if the answer to my first question is no...why? The OP didnt really explain his answer to me and I hadnt mentioned homosexual couples.
 
Questions for thread participants: The scope of the discussion has gone far into the more abstract but I'd still like to explore the OP in a more practical sense.

As I asked earlier, would such financial incentives be offered to families where the male stayed home too? Or gay and lesbian couples?

If yes, would this be a good program to pilot perhaps in a state? Provide a financial incentive to help enable one parent to remain home with the children up to school age? When all kids are of school age, the payments/tax credits end.

(I dont understand how it would be helpful to use social security credits tho...why not just a major tax credit or monthly payment thru an agency already set up? I think it's the 'credits' thing that threw me off, as I believe the families would need cash.)

And of course, if the answer to my first question is no...why? The OP didnt really explain his answer to me and I hadnt mentioned homosexual couples.

Perhaps you could simply start this as a new thread, "Should stay-at-home parents be subsidized?" either in political discussion or even economics.
 
If the pro-dease anti-vaccine people get their way that might also be complete with polio.
 
That is very true, but this would be a much happier country if mother stayed at home to cook and greet the children when they returned from school. And how great for a marriage if a man could return from work and look forward to a delicious meal.

Well, not every woman is a great cook. But I know what you mean. My mother and all my aunts were RNs. What my mother earned paid for my dad's med school. When baby #2 came along, she happily retired. The stay-at-home parent is the family's "glue," I think. I chose to stay home and back-burner my career, and I still deeply regret that circumstances forced me to return to the workforce (and at a huge deficit, having chosen to back-burner, sigh). I think being a good mother is the most important job in the world, and I loved every minute I was at home.
 
Perhaps you could simply start this as a new thread, "Should stay-at-home parents be subsidized?" either in political discussion or even economics.

It seemed an important and one of the few specific things that could be acted on in your OP.

If you dont want to see it supported...or not, cant say how the discussion would go, fine.
 
Many liberals see the rise of Trump and far-right leaders in Europe, the Philippines and other parts of the world as a repeat of the fascist rise of Hitler, Mussolini and Francisco Franco. But if history is truly repeating itself, the defeat of fascism in this century will be followed not by a progressive paradise but by a post-World War II-type era of social conservatism and bourgeoise ideals: the “1950s,” a period often mocked and derided by the left.

If the 1950s are coming back, look for woman to focus more on family and children and less on careers. The alphabet soup can of LGBQT will be pushed to the rear of the pantry. The self-segregation by ideology occurring now may be extended to self-segregation by lifestyle and race. The cosmopolitan elites will persevere, but they will lose much of their influence in the media.

While the culture will move right, a liberal amount of government intervention will be required to focus on the family. For example, generous Social Security credits might be given to stay-at-home moms.

View attachment 67256461

LOL I will believe that when income tax rates on top earners goes to 90% like it was in the 50's. You didn't think about that did you? Those rates made a single earner family the norm back then. Thanks to tax cuts, today those families can't even make ends meet with both parents working.
 
Many liberals see the rise of Trump and far-right leaders in Europe, the Philippines and other parts of the world as a repeat of the fascist rise of Hitler, Mussolini and Francisco Franco. But if history is truly repeating itself, the defeat of fascism in this century will be followed not by a progressive paradise but by a post-World War II-type era of social conservatism and bourgeoise ideals: the “1950s,” a period often mocked and derided by the left.

If the 1950s are coming back, look for woman to focus more on family and children and less on careers. The alphabet soup can of LGBQT will be pushed to the rear of the pantry. The self-segregation by ideology occurring now may be extended to self-segregation by lifestyle and race. The cosmopolitan elites will persevere, but they will lose much of their influence in the media.

While the culture will move right, a liberal amount of government intervention will be required to focus on the family. For example, generous Social Security credits might be given to stay-at-home moms.

View attachment 67256461

What looks like conservatives ideals today were vast progressive changes to the past before them.

Glad I could help you understand the concept of time and all.
 
I realize you couldn't care less, but I can't decide if you're a proud white nationalist/racist or a nice guy who's just completely out of touch with the black community. Like the conservatives who believe blacks are confused and don't know what's best for them.

First of all claiming that civil rights were somehow the reason divorce rates went up is ludicrous. Blacks have always had lower marriage and higher divorce rates, but these are the reasons everyone's divorce rates went up;

"...Many changes in the last half century have affected marriage and divorce rates. The rise of the women’s liberation movement, the advent of the sexual revolution, and an increase in women’s labor force participation altered perceptions of gender roles within marriage during the last 50 years. Cultural norms changed in ways that decreased the aversion to being single and increased the probability of cohabitation.1 In addition, a decrease in the stigma attached to divorce and the appearance of no-fault divorce laws in many states contributed to an increase in divorce rates..."

Regardless of the reasons, do you really believe minotiries would give up their civil rights for a lower divorce rate? You say, "we threw away the good things because we also promoted civil rights". What good things were thrown out because we promoted civil rights?...

I nowhere in any post said that the civil rights movement was the reason that divorce rates went up. I never made any such connection. What I said was that the effort to trash everything about the 50's because of the societal situation of blacks, overlooks some things that were very good and that have now been lost. Marriage, family cohesion and low rates of illegitmacy are some of the cornerstones of success in life and this has been shown over and over for all races. My comment which you've highlighted is my take on the thoughts of the left regarding the 50's. IOW, that it doesn't matter if many things got worse because civil rights got better. This is shown by the fact that it was prefaced by "So I guess it doesn't matter..." I'm sorry if you were confused.
 
Liberals promoted and passed civil rights legislation, not out of concern for people, just for political expediency? Jeez, it's amazing how starkly dark and harsh conservatives view history and their fellow citizens.

For the sake of argument lets say your accusation were true, which is moral and helpful to America and which is harmful? Giving Americans their civil rights out of political expediency or asking for and receiving help from our county's biggest foreign adversary out of political expediency?

That's a false equivalency even if both happened. It's particularly not apposite because the latter never happened. Maybe you should ask which is more moral and helpful, looking out first for the rights of our citizens or looking out first for the rights of illegal aliens because they will form your future political base?
 
That's a false equivalency even if both happened. It's particularly not apposite because the latter never happened. Maybe you should ask which is more moral and helpful, looking out first for the rights of our citizens or looking out first for the rights of illegal aliens because they will form your future political base?

I'm not going to get into another exchange about immigration reform, so you can have the last word. But two points;

First, the Democrats offered Don all the funding he asked for, they just want it spent on newer more effective technology than a wall. In reality Don's symbolic campaign promise would allow more illegal immigrants to cross the boarder than the Democrats practical approach.

We'll never end it completely, but I'm all for reducing illegal immigration. We lost the war on drugs due to the huge demand, it's the same here. And the best way to reduce the demand is penalizing the employers equally or more severely than the undocumented worker. It's understandable why Repubs aren't too keen on this idea, they make up the majority of employers.

You need to ask yourself, are refusing to distinguish between actual refugees and illegal immigrants, or separating children from the parents of either, moral acts?

Second, immigrants have always been more liberal than conservative, so they've always been a large part of the Democratic party. It's the reason why the phrase, 'America is a nation of immigrants', isn't very popular in conservative circles. Conservatives have a traditional aversion to immigration and non-white immigration in particular. As such, they always work to reduce and pass anti-immigration policies. But long term, they're fighting a losing battle. It's a reason why I fear Don may refuse to recognize his election loss in 20'.

The bottom line? Between the baby boomers being replaced by a more liberal generation and the million legal immigrants we allow in annually, Democrats don't need illegal immigrates for their political base...
 
I'm not going to get into another exchange about immigration reform, so you can have the last word. But two points;

First, the Democrats offered Don all the funding he asked for, they just want it spent on newer more effective technology than a wall. In reality Don's symbolic campaign promise would allow more illegal immigrants to cross the boarder than the Democrats practical approach.

We'll never end it completely, but I'm all for reducing illegal immigration. We lost the war on drugs due to the huge demand, it's the same here. And the best way to reduce the demand is penalizing the employers equally or more severely than the undocumented worker. It's understandable why Repubs aren't too keen on this idea, they make up the majority of employers.

You need to ask yourself, are refusing to distinguish between actual refugees and illegal immigrants, or separating children from the parents of either, moral acts?

Second, immigrants have always been more liberal than conservative, so they've always been a large part of the Democratic party. It's the reason why the phrase, 'America is a nation of immigrants', isn't very popular in conservative circles. Conservatives have a traditional aversion to immigration and non-white immigration in particular. As such, they always work to reduce and pass anti-immigration policies. But long term, they're fighting a losing battle. It's a reason why I fear Don may refuse to recognize his election loss in 20'.

The bottom line? Between the baby boomers being replaced by a more liberal generation and the million legal immigrants we allow in annually, Democrats don't need illegal immigrates for their political base...

If the immigrants haven't followed proper procedures, they are illegal. Obama separated children, too. It's for their own protection. The "cages" the left whines about (which are NOT cages) were built by Obama, not Trump. Immigrants are free to come in LEGALLY, regardless of who they eventually vote for. It's the legal part the left seems to have a problem with. As for Democrats, they want illegal immigration to continue. It's why they steadfastly oppose the wall. They know it will work to greatly cut down the flow. Everyone knows this but they pretend otherwise.
 
I realize you couldn't care less, but I can't decide if you're a proud white nationalist/racist or a nice guy who's just completely out of touch with the black community. Like the conservatives who believe blacks are confused and don't know what's best for them.

First of all claiming that civil rights were somehow the reason divorce rates went up is ludicrous. Blacks have always had lower marriage and higher divorce rates, but these are the reasons everyone's divorce rates went up;

You keep stating things that are just false. Blacks had higher marriage rates than whites. Yes, their divorce rates have always been higher than whites, but their rates then were lower than the rate among whites today.

Regardless of the reasons, do you really believe minotiries would give up their civil rights for a lower divorce rate? You say, "we threw away the good things because we also promoted civil rights". What good things were thrown out because we promoted civil rights?...

Stable communities.
 
Yes, during my years as a Z-1 On Call Picture Editor for Local 776 (IATSE Motion Picture Editor's Guild) I was making well over $2500 a week, which in the late 1980's was the equivalent of double that sum today, so pretty much "more money than God" for most people and my wife did not have to work either.

So tell me, conservatives, where are all the wage earners who can afford to do that today on an average working class salary?
Because back in the 1950's you did not have to make "more money than God" to do that. Almost any full time job made it possible.
What you conservatives refuse to admit is, you've used Trickle Down economics to screw the working class out of nearly everything they once had.

Trickle Down is a forty year experiment in FAILURE.

It's no experiment. It's a scam meant to deny working people their wages.
 
Our sixth grade class was assigned "Black Like Me" and "The Ground Is Our Table".

Interestingly, we wound up living in Mansfield, TX, which was John Howard Griffin's home town.
When he published "Black Like Me" the reaction was swift. Local Klan acted WITH THE HELP OF MANSFIELD POLICE, hanging Griffin in effigy and then burning the effigy in the middle of Main Street. Griffin fled with his family to Mexico for four years due to death threats.
Eventually he returned to Mansfield and lived out the rest of his life but when he died, NO LOCAL CEMETERY would take his body except what used to be called "The Old Colored Cemetery" which was just outside the town borders.

When I asked the church which had custody of the cemetery if I could visit his grave, they got very upset and refused to talk to me.

I wonder why those people, who had libel committed against them by a guy spreading propaganda to destroy their reputation across the country and world would hold such animus against the author. It's so weird!
 
I nowhere in any post said that the civil rights movement was the reason that divorce rates went up. I never made any such connection. What I said was that the effort to trash everything about the 50's because of the societal situation of blacks, overlooks some things that were very good and that have now been lost. Marriage, family cohesion and low rates of illegitmacy are some of the cornerstones of success in life and this has been shown over and over for all races. My comment which you've highlighted is my take on the thoughts of the left regarding the 50's. IOW, that it doesn't matter if many things got worse because civil rights got better. This is shown by the fact that it was prefaced by "So I guess it doesn't matter..." I'm sorry if you were confused.

We can argue that the civil rights movement lead to destabilization of communities, black movement into cities, white flight away from cities, etc. And the evidence is clear that lower social trust leads to more divorce.

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/...&article=1601&context=law_faculty_scholarship
 
And there was a ton of propaganda pushing it. Remember the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" It's a terrible movie. It's pure propaganda.
Just have to ask: What was so bad? The movie's idealized nature?

My opinion:

In an era where races often didn't mix, leaving Caucasians with little social contact with men & women of colour, Sydney Poitier did a great deal to advance the besmirched and mis-maligned perception of African-American men. So did Bill Cosby, irrespective of his current fall from grace.
 
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