The 1950s are coming back

[Lursa]

I expect the current era of conflict and fascism to last at least another decade before the resurgence of a 50s-like period where most women will see childbearing as a joy or maybe even an obligation, depending on the spirit of the times. The world is governed by a collective consciousness, which places limitations of different kinds on both men and women. While every era has its rebels, most people don't get to decide what to focus on, at least not in the context of the larger social construct. We are all players on a stage and the script is already written.

Why would women accept this submission if they dont want it? How would the govt or society 'sell' that obligation, what would be the reason? Women arent accepting Dobbs, every state has failed to make having an abortion illegal. Society, corporations, continue to successfully fight against state-imposed discrimination and limitations on the LGBT+ community.

In the past, I can only think of 'rebels' that won, like for women's rights, civil rights, for the environment, against the Vietnam War, etc. Which rebels failed in the context of the larger social construct, who are you thinking of?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Why would women accept this submission if they dont want it? How would the govt or society 'sell' that obligation, what would be the reason? Women arent accepting Dobbs, every state has failed to make having an abortion illegal. Society, corporations, continue to successfully fight against state-imposed discrimination and limitations on the LGBT+ community.

In the past, I can only think of 'rebels' that won, like for women's rights, civil rights, for the environment, against the Vietnam War, etc. Which rebels failed in the context of the larger social construct, who are you thinking of?

Yeah that whole desire to be controlled is very weird.

 

[ataraxia]

When you say the defeat of facism in this century, you mean THIS (21st) century?
Do you foresee a rise of facism in the near future?

Forget the 1950s. We will be lucky if we can keep the GOP from taking this country back to the 1650s: where religion ruled society, women knew their place barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, scarlet letters, praying away the sin, trials by ordeal, witch burnings, etc...

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So I guess we can look forward to the day when a single 40 hour per week income can cover home purchase, at least one if not two cars, college for the kids, healthcare, and maybe a little mad money left over for bowling or some other Saturday night entertainment?

 

[RobertU]

Why would women accept this submission if they dont want it? How would the govt or society 'sell' that obligation, what would be the reason? Women arent accepting Dobbs, every state has failed to make having an abortion illegal. Society, corporations, continue to successfully fight against state-imposed discrimination and limitations on the LGBT+ community.

In the past, I can only think of 'rebels' that won, like for women's rights, civil rights, for the environment, against the Vietnam War, etc. Which rebels failed in the context of the larger social construct, who are you thinking of?

Examples of rebels who failed:

Revolutions of 1848, series of republican revolts against European monarchies, beginning in Sicily and spreading to France, Germany, Italy, and the Austrian Empire. They all ended in failure and repression and were followed by widespread disillusionment among liberals.

Or more recently, the Arab Spring.

 

[Citizen]

Do you really want to compare the litany of racial sins committed every day in this country in the 1930's with 1951? The difference between 1935 and 1951 is that the country in 1951 was going through the great migration of Black Americans from the South seeking work and a better life in the industrialized North. That created a backlash that put to rest notions that they would no longer face racial bias and violence. The only real "difference" they found is that racism had not been systematically institutionalized as it was in th South. But Northern cities were quickly reading their Cliff Notes from the South and learning fast.

But unlike today and the 1930's in this country, NAZI's and various and sundry other Fascists were not that big a deal in 1951. We just had kicked their tugging asses and unlike today and in the 30's what American NAZI's there were had for the most part climbed back under their rock where they belong. In fact, NAZI's were pretty much back under their rocks everywhere in 1951. Fascism in America was back on the rise to some extent with the founding of the The American NAZI party in 1959. They never really went anywhere and the number of Fascist, white nationalist, violent movements in America today appear to be at an all time high. Make no mistake violence is the order of day for all of these groups including the so called Christian Nationalists. They will have to explain to me some day what Christianity means to them. I fear I know the answer.

Just for context, Cicero, IL is today mainly Hispanic by demographic.

Uh, What does 1930 have to do with what i posted. The incident I posted occured in 1951

 

[Lursa]

Examples of rebels who failed:

Revolutions of 1848, series of republican revolts against European monarchies, beginning in Sicily and spreading to France, Germany, Italy, and the Austrian Empire. They all ended in failure and repression and were followed by widespread disillusionment among liberals.

Or more recently, the Arab Spring.

We're discussing the US. Try some for here. Please.

I mean if you want a failure here, look at Jan 6.

 

[RobertU]

We're discussing the US. Try some for here. Please.

I mean if you want a failure here, look at Jan 6.

I think Jan. 6 is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. I think globally and measure spooky actions over time and space, a kind of quantum history.

 

[Lursa]

I think Jan. 6 is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. I think globally and measure spooky actions over time and space, a kind of quantum history.

Very possible. And so where are the US examples I asked for?

 

[independentusa]

Many liberals see the rise of Trump and far-right leaders in Europe, the Philippines and other parts of the world as a repeat of the fascist rise of Hitler, Mussolini and Francisco Franco. But if history is truly repeating itself, the defeat of fascism in this century will be followed not by a progressive paradise but by a post-World War II-type era of social conservatism and bourgeoise ideals: the “1950s,” a period often mocked and derided by the left.

If the 1950s are coming back, look for woman to focus more on family and children and less on careers. The alphabet soup can of LGBQT will be pushed to the rear of the pantry. The self-segregation by ideology occurring now may be extended to self-segregation by lifestyle and race. The cosmopolitan elites will persevere, but they will lose much of their influence in the media.

While the culture will move right, a liberal amount of government intervention will be required to focus on the family. For example, generous Social Security credits might be given to stay-at-home moms.

View attachment 67256461

The 1950's will be remembered by many as the time of segregation and Jim Crow laws, while gays were being beat up, killed or jailed.

 

[independentusa]

I think Jan. 6 is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. I think globally and measure spooky actions over time and space, a kind of quantum history.

So a violent attemtpt to overthrow the government is some kind of German beer hall putch. You are right about one thing, it was close to how Hitler operated during those times in Germany.

 

[RobertU]

Very possible. And so where are the US examples I asked for?

Social revolutions that failed were Reconstruction and Prohibition, which many people forgot was strongly supported by women who won the right to vote. What's more important is that a revolution and counterrevolution is occurring now and after the killing and destruction has stopped, people will want a return to a period of calm, not social upheaval.

 

[Craig234]

Robert, having just looked at the first and last pages, I find your posts nonsensical, not really saying anything, but seeming to have 'coded messages' that are bad.

For example, in the first post, you referred to the LGBQT 'alphabet soup' being pushed to the 'back of the pantry.

What LGBQT is, is a small percent of Americans, millions of people, who have sexual traits other than the most common one; and two main changes in society about them. They exist in society either way, but progress has been greater understanding by society of human sexuality so that those people arent't wrongy viewed as some sort of monstrous criminals, and protecting their having equal rights instead of discrimination.

So the issue is simple, whether society should understand the truth about human sexuality more, and treat people equally, or we should have more ignorance, misinformation and hate toward groups, and deny them equal rights, whether that means the right to not be killed, to be 'open', to not be fired for it, to marry the people they love, to raise families, and so on.

All you had to say were things appearing to be coded messages for the latter, disparaging comments toward the people - calling them an 'alphabet soup', and a meaningless phrase of 'back of the pantry'. Either gays have equal rights to marry or their rights are denied; there is no 'back of the pantry' to it.

Your latest post has a meaningless statement about killing and people wanting calm; a calm society can be one in which groups have been murdered and totalitarian bigotry is in force, sort of the Nazi vision; or it can be a society in which the bigotry has been removed and people live calmly with more equality which you seem to call for revolution and murder to try to prevent. That's quite wrong to do, but you keep it 'coded'.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Social revolutions that failed were Reconstruction and Prohibition, which many people forgot was strongly supported by women who won the right to vote. What's more important is that a revolution and counterrevolution is occurring now and after the killing and destruction has stopped, people will want a return to a period of calm, not social upheaval.

Is this something that you want?

 

[Lursa]

Social revolutions that failed were Reconstruction and Prohibition, which many people forgot was strongly supported by women who won the right to vote. What's more important is that a revolution and counterrevolution is occurring now and after the killing and destruction has stopped, people will want a return to a period of calm, not social upheaval.

Prohibition is a good one. I dont know that Reconstruction failed.Btw, neither of those really qualifies as an answer to my question...they were govt programs, not rebellions. Most of the social issues at hand arent going away and they wont be swept under the rug in the future. Gay people will still be gay, women will still demand their rights and the LGBT+ community is supported by many Americans and they arent going to go quietly into some 'good night' either. You dont 'put corks back in bottles' like those.

I believe it would be great if one parent were able to stay home with the kids...I'd love to see our economic situation and rampant consumerism change for the better...but by no means should it mean that women are stuck with that if they dont want it.

 

[RobertU]

Prohibition is a good one. I dont know that Reconstruction failed.Btw, neither of those really qualifies as an answer to my question...they were govt programs, not rebellions. Most of the social issues at hand arent going away and they wont be swept under the rug in the future. Gay people will still be gay, women will still demand their rights and the LGBT+ community is supported by many Americans and they arent going to go quietly into some 'good night' either. You dont 'put corks back in bottles' like those.

I believe it would be great if one parent were able to stay home with the kids...I'd love to see our economic situation and rampant consumerism change for the better...but by no means should it mean that women are stuck with that if they dont want it.

Everything is on the table. No social justice or economic gains are sacrosanct. Perhaps the best example is labor unions. In the early 1950s, about a third of U.S. workers belonged to labor unions. Union membership in the U.S. declined in 2022 to a new modern low of 10.1 percent.

I am retired and don't expect to be around for the neo-50s, so its exact composition is not that important to me. I believe history is cyclical; others believe it is linear. All this has happened before and all this will happen again, unless the story comes to an end.

 

[Lursa]

Everything is on the table. No social justice or economic gains are sacrosanct. Perhaps the best example is labor unions. In the early 1950s, about a third of U.S. workers belonged to labor unions. Union membership in the U.S. declined in 2022 to a new modern low of 10.1 percent.

I am retired and don't expect to be around for the neo-50s, so its exact composition is not that important to me. I believe history is cyclical; others believe it is linear. All this has happened before and all this will happen again, unless the story comes to an end.

They were my questions, based on your OP.

 

[Gordy327]

The 1950's will be remembered by many as the time of segregation and Jim Crow laws, while gays were being beat up, killed or jailed.

And women were expected to be subservient & obedient and father knew best.