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Such A Nightmare

TobyOne said:
Even one spot at a college/university in CA which would have been taken by a US citizen instead of an illegal is too high.
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Considering the number of educated idiots I've met I'd say one won't be missed...if it's an education that an alien seeks there are other parts of the world where a better one can be obtained than in many of our schools.
 
AYSM said:
I find it sad that you see your manhood at risk and plan to have the government support you when you lose it...if lots of people join you we are going to have to start recruiting illegal aliens to support you, perhaps one of them will let you have their sombrero if you have too small a hat to provide adequate coverage of your ummm...issue.

Btw, thanks for the chuckle...I love a good bit of hypocrisy...nice siggy...

"Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life."

:unsure13:
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The illegal immigrants that will be helping me will be cooking haggis and probably can't even spell sombrero.


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Dirt Sands said:
Way, way, waaaayyy more people are getting government checks than illigal immigrants.

Let's start with corporate welfare. So now we have kick them out. Let's kick out all churches that don't pay taxes. Next we have to kick out all charitable organizations that don't pay taxes, how about all the ranchers and oil drillers that use public lands for free. Did I ****ing mention your grandmother who collects social security. And the guy in the ER because he was beaten by the cops.

Your a freeloader yourself on this website because you don't pay for it or even read the adds.

You couldn't have gotten a loan or grant for college because your to stupid

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How many will be getting them if we do away with borders?


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Beaudreaux said:
How many will be getting them if we do away with borders?


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No,that's not the right comparison.

Your claim is that we can't have a border without a wall, but we already don't have a wall and there is a border.

But that's what Republicans do.

So you answer. How many checks do we write

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AYSM said:
...all of these dreamers.

This whole DACA issue is totally foolish...Trump is one sick puppy playing games with so few lives in the overall scheme of things.

I never really gave much thought to DACA and what it was about...time to look into it a bit since it could adversely effect so many lives.
This immigration issue seems to be quite major in the minds of an apparent large minority of the population who appear somewhat stubborn in their position to ship them illegals back from where they came.

It sure seems to be a major problem that I'm having a hard time trying to understand as to why it's such a big deal.
I've started to look into it deeper...first, let's crunch the numbers...

A quick google search leads to the figure of 323,100,000 as the population of the USA as of 2016...close enough.

How many DACA people...appears to be about eight hundred thousand is the number being floated...sounds good enough to get us into such a small ballpark.

Do the math and I've got to wonder why these people pose such a threat, being as we are talking about .2476% of the overall population, their only perceived criminality being undocumented illegal aliens who are apparently better citizens than many born into citizenship, many of whom wouldn't qualify for a visa to visit if Trump has his way...seriously?

All over less than one quarter of one percent of the population...what justification?

How many are getting their applications in early to try and grab the jobs that would be vacated? Surely some have jobs.
All have life...do I recall a time when conservatives tried to link compassionate with their image...was that a real movement or was it some jackass came up with the label because it was the closest thing they found in the dictionary that sounded cool together?

:confused:
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If it'll help your confusion, try to keep in mind that this DACA thing is a Trump-engineered trap for the GOP Elites. Nothing more.
 
Dirt Sands said:
So your more ****ing American than me? That's right, your not. My ancestors were the first Baptist missionaries to cross the Mississippi.

And guess what, your ancestral line is full of muts. You are not 100% what you said you are.

You are only into laws you agree with. The president you support will have to be pardoned soon enough for laundering money for Russia.

Of all the bad things that can be said about Trump, you won't say one.

What a hippocrit[emoji16]

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Dirt Sands, are you feeling OK? I am pointing out race has nothing to do with this. My ancestors were illegal immigrants. Your may have been as well.

DACA is blown way out of proportion.

Give the dreamers citizenship by Executive Order. End of problem.
 
We should send them there.

AYSM said:
Considering the number of educated idiots I've met I'd say one won't be missed...if it's an education that an alien seeks there are other parts of the world where a better one can be obtained than in many of our schools.
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Manc Skipper said:
There's no political reason to end DACA other than throwing some raw meat to his base, and spitefully unpicking yet another Obama policy, just because.
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It's obvious at this point that Trump's goal is to do whatever he can to "Undo" Obama's legacy. And you know what? That's what Republican voters elected him for.

The thing is, they are starting a bad precedent. It's very possible that if Trump's successor is a Democrat, that Democrat president will make it his or her #1 goal to undo everything Trump accomplishes. You know what they say, what goes around comes around.
 
Let me say this about foregnors working in America.

This is math.

The 800,000 DACAs working stole 800,000 American jobs. If we deport them back to, say, Mexico, will get 800,000 jobs in Mexico, that stole 800,000 jobs from America.

That's a net loss of 0.

At least when they work here, it's American made. And they pay rent and buy gas and groceries.

The DACA's are GOOD for the economy.

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Dirt Sands said:
No,that's not the right comparison.

Your claim is that we can't have a border without a wall, but we already don't have a wall and there is a border.

But that's what Republicans do.

So you answer. How many checks do we write

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Click to expand...

LOL - You really need to re-read my posts. Because what you say above about them is way off track.
 
AYSM said:
...all of these dreamers.

This whole DACA issue is totally foolish...Trump is one sick puppy playing games with so few lives in the overall scheme of things.

I never really gave much thought to DACA and what it was about...time to look into it a bit since it could adversely effect so many lives.
This immigration issue seems to be quite major in the minds of an apparent large minority of the population who appear somewhat stubborn in their position to ship them illegals back from where they came.

It sure seems to be a major problem that I'm having a hard time trying to understand as to why it's such a big deal.
I've started to look into it deeper...first, let's crunch the numbers...

A quick google search leads to the figure of 323,100,000 as the population of the USA as of 2016...close enough.

How many DACA people...appears to be about eight hundred thousand is the number being floated...sounds good enough to get us into such a small ballpark.

Do the math and I've got to wonder why these people pose such a threat, being as we are talking about .2476% of the overall population, their only perceived criminality being undocumented illegal aliens who are apparently better citizens than many born into citizenship, many of whom wouldn't qualify for a visa to visit if Trump has his way...seriously?

All over less than one quarter of one percent of the population...what justification?

How many are getting their applications in early to try and grab the jobs that would be vacated? Surely some have jobs.
All have life...do I recall a time when conservatives tried to link compassionate with their image...was that a real movement or was it some jackass came up with the label because it was the closest thing they found in the dictionary that sounded cool together?

:confused:
Click to expand...

DACA is/perhaps was a name given to an executive order by President Obama giving guidelines to INS etc. in how to enforce or not enforce current immigration laws. DACA never was legislation or law, just guidelines. DACA, the executive order was a way for President Obama to bypass congress on this matter which may have been or not unconstitutional since the Constitution gives congress the power over immigration and naturalization, not the administrative branch.

Enforcement of laws passed by congress is the responsibility of the executive branch and as such, President Obama said DACA fell under his or the executive branch guidelines for enforcement or no enforcement.

If the proper channels, the constitution had been followed DACA would have been passed by congress and signed into law by President Obama and without congressional action, no president could do away with it with a stroke of the pen by changing the guidelines of enforcement.

I suppose the moral of the story is President Obama should have followed proper constitutional procedures.
 
AYSM said:
Equating a crime such as robbing a bank to someone guilty of trying to live a healthy productive life by benefitting from the opportunity presented to them which is pretty much a victimless crime...yes, both are considered to be illegal but one should obviously be viewed as more egregious so I find your analogy a bit absurd. If there is no distinction then we should have no need for a distinction between a misdemeanor and a felony. I would be interested in understanding why you see the issue akin to bank robbery?

As to your problem with a small part of my post you quoted and avoided addressing my argument contained in the remainder...it appears neither of us are very impressed with the other at this point in the discussion and with your readiness to discount me, should you choose to not bother with my dribble any further you might want to use your mouse to zip on by and save the insults...on the other hand...save them for the basement and get back to me after my 30 day requirement for access has arrived.

On the other hand perhaps your example trying to link the receipt of stolen bank money to the crime of crossing a border into a land which we stole from someone else...quite possibly their ancestors...why would one go to jail while the other is merely disposed of if your analogy bears much merit pertaining to the reality of the situation?

You feel I'm trying to justify a crime while I don't believe I have done so...my argument is more focused on justice and laws and punishment that evolves when factoring in some common sense...if you wish to continue with absurd analogies how about you make the case for justification of a 30 year prison sentence for possession of a joint...haven't heard of such a thing recently but there was a time where some laws didn't seem to carry penalties fitting the crime...and yet during the same timeframe I can provide a first hand account of how 14 felonies can be reduced to one misdemeanor simply by having connections in the right place at the right time...and following a judges orders to lie under oath in court.

More anecdotal nonsense or too much reality for you to even believe?

Take my posts however you wish or ignore them or not...just be happy with your decision.

I'll be more than happy to review any answers to the questions I've asked should you choose to start addressing them, it may help in the process of my gaining understanding as to why you feel this is such an important issue...especially now with so many other things that are much more important...at least hang on to the DACA folks who are probably doing more than either you or me in helping their fellow human beings during their time of need in Houston...wait until that's done before throwing them out...maybe we can compromise?

I'll try and refrain from liberal minded emotional drivel while you can try help me understand how conservatism and compassion fit together like peas and carrots.
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Equating a crime such as robbing a bank to someone guilty of trying to live a healthy productive life by benefitting from the opportunity presented to them which is pretty much a victimless crime...yes, both are considered to be illegal but one should obviously be viewed as more egregious so I find your analogy a bit absurd.
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I never I said I blamed people for trying to pursue a better life. The fact of the matter is that we must retain a standard of law. At the end of the day, a crime is a crime. If they have a solid, healthy record. No crimes, no infringements, etc... then I am totally open to them immigrating here legally. As for me equating illegal immigration to bank robbery, you're not considering the amount of federal or state money these people consume. Households of Central American and Mexican parentage use social programs higher than any other foreign immigrant population (particularly if they're illegal).

camarota-welfare-f2.jpg
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households


As to your problem with a small part of my post you quoted and avoided addressing my argument contained in the remainder...it appears neither of us are very impressed with the other at this point in the discussion and with your readiness to discount me, should you choose to not bother with my dribble any further you might want to use your mouse to zip on by and save the insults...on the other hand...save them for the basement and get back to me after my 30 day requirement for access has arrived.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if you're offended... like I said I wasn't trying to be pompous or rude or annoying. In the context of this issue I'm looking for arguments that are coherently backed up by logic and reason.
 
On the other hand perhaps your example trying to link the receipt of stolen bank money to the crime of crossing a border into a land which we stole from someone else...quite possibly their ancestors...why would one go to jail while the other is merely disposed of if your analogy bears much merit pertaining to the reality of the situation?
Click to expand...

This is not an argument either. By that standard, everything outside of where human life began is "stolen". Even most mestizos are some bastard mix of Spanish and the original aboriginal peoples that lived there originally long ago. The reality of the situation is that there are many people from Central America and Mexico who want a better life and I can't blame them for that. But we do have a standard of law and I shouldn't need to explain the necessity to retain the standard of law to someone but if I need to, let me know.


You feel I'm trying to justify a crime while I don't believe I have done so...my argument is more focused on justice and laws and punishment that evolves when factoring in some common sense...if you wish to continue with absurd analogies how about you make the case for justification of a 30 year prison sentence for possession of a joint...haven't heard of such a thing recently but there was a time where some laws didn't seem to carry penalties fitting the crime...and yet during the same timeframe I can provide a first hand account of how 14 felonies can be reduced to one misdemeanor simply by having connections in the right place at the right time...and following a judges orders to lie under oath in court.
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None of this is an argument for the case at hand either. If you have the time you may feel free to actually explain what "factoring in some common sense" means because I have no idea how that is policy or something that I can make a rebuttal to. I'm sure we could even agree on thing relating to the drug war or how some felonies are outrageous but that is TOTALLY unrelated to the topic at hand.


I'll be more than happy to review any answers to the questions I've asked should you choose to start addressing them, it may help in the process of my gaining understanding as to why you feel this is such an important issue...especially now with so many other things that are much more important...at least hang on to the DACA folks who are probably doing more than either you or me in helping their fellow human beings during their time of need in Houston...wait until that's done before throwing them out...maybe we can compromise
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This shouldn't be an issue in the first place. I'm not super pro-trump or zealously anti-Obama but none of this would be an issue if Obama had sent it to the legislature in the first place. Trump is AT LEAST doing that much. The last part is ridiculous. You believe we should be more lenient on specific laws (or outright ignore them) because another area of the United States in in a time of need?
 
Beaudreaux said:
LOL - You really need to re-read my posts. Because what you say above about them is way off track.
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I reread your posts as you asked. Your comment was on DACAs getting government cheese, and how much cheese illegals get.

I turned the wall argument against you.

You claim that we have to have wall to have borders.

Is that not true?

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JamesBY said:
Anyone who does not understand American law would think DACA is illegal.
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Anyone who doesn't understand the Constitution would think, DACA is legal. :roll:
 
Dirt Sands said:
I reread your posts as you asked. Your comment was on DACAs getting government cheese, and how much cheese illegals get.

I turned the wall argument against you.

You claim that we have to have wall to have borders.

Is that not true?

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Click to expand...

I never mentioned "the wall" and instead focused on the law. That's all that matters - the law. Emotion is just a feeling. We are a nation of laws, not of fuzzy feelings.
 
AYSM said:
...all of these dreamers.

This whole DACA issue is totally foolish...Trump is one sick puppy playing games with so few lives in the overall scheme of things.

I never really gave much thought to DACA and what it was about...time to look into it a bit since it could adversely effect so many lives.
This immigration issue seems to be quite major in the minds of an apparent large minority of the population who appear somewhat stubborn in their position to ship them illegals back from where they came.

It sure seems to be a major problem that I'm having a hard time trying to understand as to why it's such a big deal.
I've started to look into it deeper...first, let's crunch the numbers...

A quick google search leads to the figure of 323,100,000 as the population of the USA as of 2016...close enough.

How many DACA people...appears to be about eight hundred thousand is the number being floated...sounds good enough to get us into such a small ballpark.

Do the math and I've got to wonder why these people pose such a threat, being as we are talking about .2476% of the overall population, their only perceived criminality being undocumented illegal aliens who are apparently better citizens than many born into citizenship, many of whom wouldn't qualify for a visa to visit if Trump has his way...seriously?

All over less than one quarter of one percent of the population...what justification?

How many are getting their applications in early to try and grab the jobs that would be vacated? Surely some have jobs.
All have life...do I recall a time when conservatives tried to link compassionate with their image...was that a real movement or was it some jackass came up with the label because it was the closest thing they found in the dictionary that sounded cool together?

:confused:
Click to expand...

DACA is illegal, cooked up by Obama for purely political purposes that had nothing to do with " compassion "

Conservatives believe in law and order, and that includes immigration laws that Democrats seem to hav no issue ignoring when it benefits them Politically
 
Beaudreaux said:
That's right. Has nothing to do with the law or being a sovereign nation with borders and immigration control.

Just open the borders and let everyone in. We can afford it. We can all wear our ***** hats down to get our government checks. /of the nation
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Beaudreaux, I went back and reread all of your posts to be fair. You did mention open borders and government checks. You did not use the word wall. However, your open borders comment does imply an argument for a wall.


If jobs are going to Mexicans in Mexico, why can't they just go to Mexicans here? And, are they stealing are jobs or are they getting government checks and not working?

You can't have it both ways




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Beaudreaux said:
The illegal immigrants that will be helping me will be cooking haggis and probably can't even spell sombrero.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting the proposed wall is going to be on the wrong border?

What got you thinking about food? Looking forward to your government cheese?

Make it a sheepskin hat then...

sheepskin hat.jpg
 
Koke said:
I never I said I blamed people for trying to pursue a better life. The fact of the matter is that we must retain a standard of law. At the end of the day, a crime is a crime. If they have a solid, healthy record. No crimes, no infringements, etc... then I am totally open to them immigrating here legally. As for me equating illegal immigration to bank robbery, you're not considering the amount of federal or state money these people consume. Households of Central American and Mexican parentage use social programs higher than any other foreign immigrant population (particularly if they're illegal).

View attachment 67222344
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households




I'm sorry if you're offended... like I said I wasn't trying to be pompous or rude or annoying. In the context of this issue I'm looking for arguments that are coherently backed up by logic and reason.
Click to expand...

Fascinating, you state, "Households of Central American and Mexican parentage use social programs higher than any other foreign immigrant population (particularly if they're illegal)" and then provide a link to support your argument that states...

" it is clear that the overwhelming majority of immigrant households using welfare are headed by legal immigrants."

Looks like you don't need me to present an opposition to your argument, you've got that covered.

You state...

"The fact of the matter is that we must retain a standard of law. At the end of the day, a crime is a crime."

You're giving new meaning to being a dreamer, how can we retain something we've never had?
 
AYSM said:
Are you suggesting the proposed wall is going to be on the wrong border?

What got you thinking about food? Looking forward to your government cheese?

Make it a sheepskin hat then...

View attachment 67222345
Click to expand...

LMAO - Again, I haven't mentioned a frigging wall. I'm talking about the LAW, not a wall. I know they may sound similar, but Geeze Louise guys...
 
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