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Spokane county shelter adopts out pit bull, kills 4 year old boy

poppopfox said:
So you say. Your words prove otherwise, and you most assuredly made this about you.

Anectdotals by an anonymous poster have no credibility.

The only undeniable fact here is your hatred and ignorance of the breed.
Another undeniable fact is that human beings are the most invasive and destructive species of animal that ever walked the planet. Perhaps we should wipe ourselves from the face of the earth (and we probably will). :(
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So...you are going to double down on your personal attacks against me. So be it.

You are dismissed.
 
BirdinHand said:
Who breeds and adopts/buys dogs?

Last I checked - there aren’t packs of wild pit bulls roaming the streets 😂
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yes I support a total ban on all pit bulls so we agree and there’s no reason to argue
 
BirdinHand said:
We don’t “agree”.

I’m sorry you are afraid of an entire category of dogs. That must be tough.
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Oh so then humans aren’t responsible for pit bull attacks

It’s normal and healthy to fear vicious animals
 
Is it irrational to be afraid of a vicious animal that can go from being a loving family pet to pinning you in the corner of your room and not letting go, causing serious blood loss and requiring intervention of armed police officers to stop?

You tell me



Any pit bull fanatics want to show the cocker spaniel attack video where the cops have to bust a cap to save someone
?
 
JasperL said:
I can't agree that it's the fault of anyone at the shelter. They get in a dog, and the entire time the environment is nothing like it would be in a home. They can only evaluate what they see, and what they see in the shelter is often not like what an adopted family will see after the adjustment period. This is such a truism that there's a 3-3-3 rule that estimates the time for an adopted dog to start showing his true personality. The shelter will never see that, because the environment is so overwhelming for many dogs.

Further, the family had the dog in their home for 3 months. How can a shelter be expected to see behavior risks that the family that adopted the dog don't see in 3 months of living with them, every day, all day?

Anyway, I appreciate families that adopt from shelters, but I'd never do it other than a puppy, especially with a small child at home. It's a crap shoot what the dog's experiences were before being surrendered, and by being surrendered you have some indication it wasn't an ideal previous life. When you are an adult, you can regulate your own interactions with the dog, but you can't ask a 4 year old to do that. You can't expect that a small child to know how to properly interact with any dog, that the child won't harass the dog, pull ears, tails, or pose a threat to the dog with his or her erratic behavior.
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Well said my friend. :)
 
poppopfox said:
The problem is that irresponsible owners and breeders are responsible foe ALL dog attacks. It's a human problem my friend. Fess up to that fact.
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I don't agree with that as a blanket statement. They're creatures with unique DNA and experiences and personalities. So what we get with a dog is clearly nature and nurture. It's no different than asserting as fact that if a person commits a violent crime, then it is the parent or parents' fault in EVERY case. No one would suggest that, for good reason.

A beagle typically is different than a schnauzer, for example, and humans can't change that. Our pyr mix is hard wired to defend against coyotes. I didn't teach that but the first time he came across coyote scent, never having seen an actual coyote, he had a reaction remarkably different than for any other wild creature. Retrievers retrieve, generally - it's in their DNA.

There's no requirement that some human did something wrong EVERY TIME a dog attacks another dog or human. Or, if that's the case, then the bar for what is acceptable ownership and training is just unrealistically high. It's also to set up a kind of "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If the dog attacks someone or another dog, THEREFORE, it's the owner's fault. Well, the only times you can determine that are if you have an incredibly intimate knowledge of the dog, and how the owners interacted with and trained, or didn't train, that dog, as well as all the prior interactions with that dog and other dogs, and the many humans it's experienced since puppyhood that are not the owners.

I mean, since dogs are bred (or not spayed or neutered) generally by humans, and are under constant care or supervision by some human, and interact with other humans, I guess you can maybe say, well, at some point SOME human did something wrong, but you sure as hell can't assume it's the owner who is responsible. It might be that dog was attacked while on leash by some random off leash dog, especially during the wrong period of its development, and that affected the dog's personality for life. Is that the owner's or breeder's fault? No. Is it some human's fault - maybe, but that's to say nothing at all useful.

My problem with pits and related is they have a well known tendency to bite and hold, and resisting incredible efforts to get them to release. That's not taught - it's part of their DNA. There's a reason why pit bulls are used as fighting dogs, versus labs or beagles. I know the argument is pit bulls were also bred not to be human aggressive, because the handler cannot permit the dog to turn on the handler during training etc. But that doesn't change the fact seen in the data that the admittedly RARE attacks by pit bulls are often far more destructive than bites from other breeds. My min schnauzer, for example, simply won't ever kill a child, it's not got the DNA to attempt it, or the power to carry it out. I've known min schnauzers that will bite, but bite and hold and hold on while someone's kicking it or beating it with a stick? 0 chance. The pit mix next door to me did bite and hold a small child riding her bike and ripped a chunk out of her leg. The pit mix one door down did attack a dog it had been living peacefully with for months, and by all accounts it was a blood bath, the dog snapped for a reason no one could identify, and it was a sustained attack, and incredibly damaging to the other dog.
 
JasperL said:
I don't agree with that as a blanket statement. They're creatures with unique DNA and experiences and personalities. So what we get with a dog is clearly nature and nurture. It's no different than asserting as fact that if a person commits a violent crime, then it is the parent or parents' fault in EVERY case. No one would suggest that, for good reason.
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I had to snip your post for character limit but something to remember is that the dogs aren’t used for bloodsport because they bite and hold, the bite and hold was selectively bred for over the course of centuries for that reason.

whenever I read news reports and articles of pit bull attacks I am yet to see one involving an abused or fighting dog. In nearly all cases the owner claims they were a beloved family pet who they adopted to be a pet. In the tragic case of the Bennard family, the parents had these dogs for 8 years, raised since they were puppies by the father, they were even breed standard dogs with papers of their bloodlines. Then the two female pits viciously killed their 2 year old soon and 10 month old daughter and very nearly killed the mother when she tried to stop the dogs
 
It's simply amazing how ignorant many people are of different dog breeds. Simply amazing.

The fact is the OP is scared shitless of Pitbulls, this isn't the first thread he's started about them, but he obviously has never owned a dog and knows nothing about them.
 
BirdinHand said:
We don’t “agree”.

I’m sorry you are afraid of an entire category of dogs. That must be tough.
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I have a Dogo Argentino dog. They're derived from the Cordova Fighting dogs of the 19th century, which are now extinct. They were breed to hunt puma and wild boar in Argentina and are bigger and stronger than American Pitbulls.

The average Pitbull is about 45-50 pounds and has a bite of about 225 psi. My Dogo is 85 pounds and has a bite strength of 500 psi, but amazingly she's never mauled anyone, even though she could destroy a Pit Bull. Why, Dogos aren't over bred and I know how to train my dog. Most responsible dog owners know how to train their dogs, but Pit Bulls tend to attract a lot of irresponsible dog owners. That's not the dog's fault.

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My Dogo, Peanut.
 
armycowboy said:
No, I carry my .38 and after 20+ years in the Army I really don't fear anything or anyone. Sorry you walk around scared. Maybe if I was 5'4" I'd walk around scared. :ROFLMAO:
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A lot of fear in this thread. @Mycroft is terrified of puppies.
 
armycowboy said:
No, I carry my .38 and after 20+ years in the Army I really don't fear anything or anyone. Sorry you walk around scared. Maybe if I was 5'4" I'd walk around scared. :ROFLMAO:
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lol you claiming you have superior courage because you carry a loaded gun in public is the most hilarious thing I’ve read in a long time
 
EMNofSeattle said:
lol you claiming you have superior courage because you carry a loaded gun in public is the most hilarious thing I’ve read in a long time
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That wasn't his claim.
“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”
― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy
 
poppopfox said:
That wasn't his claim.
“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”
― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy
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That was precisely his claim. I’ve scored perfectly on every English comprehension test I’ve ever taken, so respectfully, if we disagree on the meaning of sentence, you’re wrong
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That was precisely his claim. I’ve scored perfectly on every English comprehension test I’ve ever taken, so respectfully, if we disagree on the meaning of sentence, you’re wrong
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Now you're just being a pompous fool. Like a knave, you twist what was said to make it easier to attack. Let me educate you - A straw man fallacy involves the deliberate distortion of another person's argument. By oversimplifying or exaggerating it, the other party creates an easy-to-refute argument and then attacks it.
Now see if you can respond honestly.

Btw, your response to my post is a variant of the Argumentum ad Verecundiam fallacy, known as Ipse dixit.
 
poppopfox said:
Now you're just being a pompous fool. Like a knave, you twist what was said to make it easier to attack. Let me educate you - A straw man fallacy involves the deliberate distortion of another person's argument. By oversimplifying or exaggerating it, the other party creates an easy-to-refute argument and then attacks it.
Now see if you can respond honestly.

Btw, your response to my post is a variant of the Argumentum ad Verecundiam fallacy, known as Ipse dixit.
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Look at how much bullshit you have to write to ignore what the other poster directly wrote
 
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