So, Sanders is going against the DNC , is that a bad thing or a good thing?

[bomberfox]

He is a Democrat. He thinks and votes just like a Democrat. A liberal Democrat. But by insisting on calling himself a Socialist, he:

1) Opens himself to scary attack-ads by the right. And scary attack-ads by the right are effective to some people, believe it or not.
2) Turns off moderates who don't see this as just a case of "Hey, look at me! I'm a socialist! And you're all capitalist tools!"
3) Is being unnecessarily dishonest.

As long as he's a Senator from a small state, no worries. Call himself whatever he wants. Commie, Socialist, whatever. But when the nation's future is at stake, come on. Be honest.

Thats a totally reasonable critique.

 

[Glitch]

Ah George Wallace I remember him standing in the doorway shouting segregation now segregation forever he was a piece of work they say he had dealings with the clan
So there is little hope that an Independent will ever become president.
To me that sounds an awful lot like an assumption.

Not an assumption. Historical fact. In the entire history of the US there have only been two major political parties that have received Electoral College votes, with the two exceptions that I already mentioned. Even before the Republican and Democratic parties existed, and even before their was a popular vote for President, the Federalists and Democratic-Republicans determined the electors for the Electoral College. At no time has an Independent candidate for President ever come close to receiving a plurality of the Electoral College, much less the majority. So you can deny history all you like, but if you were smart you might learn something from it instead.

So I guess the Republican party doesn't need the Independent vote huh?
That's cool you just start a blog saying Independent vote not needed or wanted by Trump

The Electoral college vote is on shaky ground there has been accusations of zoning and other bad issues concerning the Electoral College . by both political parties .eace

Trump is already the Republican nominee. The overwhelming majority of the States are not even holding a Republican primary because the Republican candidate has already been determined.

Only Democrats, who continually lose, consider the Electoral College on shaky grounds. Democrats have been proposing amendments to abolish the Electoral College ever since they lost by an historical landslide to Nixon in 1972. It is always DOA and never makes it out of committee, but Democrats are always proposing that we abolish the Electoral College. A classic case of a whiny two year-old when it doesn't get its way. The Electoral College has worked precisely as intended for the last 231 years, and it will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.

 

[presluc]

The strategic game Biden will be much better, though the reason people want radical change is because we have witnessed such a horrible breakdown that its going to take radical positive change to keep this country from descending into this again. Returning to the before twump status quo will leave us totally vulnerable to another one who will have even greater powers than twump. As for the boomer generation, i can see why millenials are upset. The boomers benefitted from massive changes the greatest generation made only to nearly completely remove them which put my generation in such deep ****. While we can chat about video games and all, the opportunities that were afforded to the white boomers are too expensive and out of reach for my generation.

Well I don't want to ask what your generation is ,that would be rude would it not
I know in Michigan 400,000 mostly manufacturing jobs went out the door in less that 2 months in the early 2000's outsourced to foreign nations

However, since Clinton left the White house there has been little talk of Change.
Obama said we can change but it will take time

My point is while the Democratic party is taking baby steps to take time.
The Rich and rich corporations are carving up the political process a piece at a time.

Some say this is all Trump, question ; who backs Trump???
Nobody ever thought that a true American would turn their back on a Congressional investigation it was done.
Nobody ever thought that any president would or could ever mess with the Judicial system it was done.
Nobody ever thought that any leader of America would call a climate Scientist stupid it was done
Nobody ever thought that any political party members would not call on a political party for breaking campaign promises excuses were made
Nobody ever thought that a President of the United States would call on the foreign countries of China, Russia and Ukraine to investigate an American citizen to benefit his campaign election. this was done on the White House lawn on national T.V.
There are more.
So why is the Democrats saying well we don't want to make waves while the Republicans are making tsunamis.eace

 

[GreatNews2night]

The strategic game Biden will be much better, though the reason people want radical change is because we have witnessed such a horrible breakdown that its going to take radical positive change to keep this country from descending into this again. Returning to the before twump status quo will leave us totally vulnerable to another one who will have even greater powers than twump. As for the boomer generation, i can see why millenials are upset. The boomers benefitted from massive changes the greatest generation made only to nearly completely remove them which put my generation in such deep ****. While we can chat about video games and all, the opportunities that were afforded to the white boomers are too expensive and out of reach for my generation. I got people from that generation telling me they are glad my generation doesnt have a voice, that lauds their sheer numerical advantage over my generation. When i tell those people how sickening such attitude is, they just shrug.

While Biden may stave off total disaster, America is done for if we dont make even some of the major changes that will be needed.

I empathize with you. I'm a parent of two children who belong to your age group. I know your generation is suffering. However, your generation simply doesn't have the votes yet, or doesn't even bother voting, to make of your aspirations, bills signed into law, and to elect the candidates you prefer. So, like I said, be content with at least kicking Trump out of the White House for now, voting for whoever is nominated by the Dems even if you don't like the person, survive to fight another day, and in the future, elect your progressive candidates and change the laws. For now, your best bet is to at leas minimize the damage to the Judiciary, by putting a Democrat in the White House. That's my best advice for your generation.

If you go Bernie or Bust and defect, then Trump will just continue to crush your generation for four more years, and who knows for how much longer if the next candidate is, say, Ivanka Trump. We need to get the Trump Crime Family out of the White House NOW before it is too late. This is more essential than getting to your revolution NOW. It would be could if you could implement it, but the sad reality is that you can not. You are still in the minority.

By the way, I voted for Bernie in my state's primary, but I no longer think that he is the best equipped one to beat Trump, that's why I'm now supporting Biden, not exactly because of his personal qualities, but because I think there is (small) chance that he can beat Trump, especially if you guys don't defect, while I think that sadly, Bernie will NOT defeat Trump.

 

[Felis Leo]

That's bold talk coming from a right winger, who actually supported this crap.

I do not recall ever having the pleasure of having a discussion with you, presluc for you to level such an accusation at me. Is there another conservative user here with a similar handle and profile pic who you are confusing me with? A Lelis Feo perhaps?

I did not break the law,no the witness can not testify, no the documents concerning this can not be released.
The Coronavirus virus outbreak is a hoax started by the Democratic party.
The Coronavirus has been contained.,
Do these sound familiar

Yes, they sound like straw man exaggerations of positions I have neither held nor arguments I have ever made.

When you get tired of making excuses for this dummy let me know we'll talk then.

When you see me make excuses for any dummies, please call me out then.

 

[presluc]

Not an assumption. Historical fact. In the entire history of the US there have only been two major political parties that have received Electoral College votes, with the two exceptions that I already mentioned. Even before the Republican and Democratic parties existed, and even before their was a popular vote for President, the Federalists and Democratic-Republicans determined the electors for the Electoral College. At no time has an Independent candidate for President ever come close to receiving a plurality of the Electoral College, much less the majority. So you can deny history all you like, but if you were smart you might learn something from it instead.



Trump is already the Republican nominee. The overwhelming majority of the States are not even holding a Republican primary because the Republican candidate has already been determined.

Only Democrats, who continually lose, consider the Electoral College on shaky grounds. Democrats have been proposing amendments to abolish the Electoral College ever since they lost by an historical landslide to Nixon in 1972. It is always DOA and never makes it out of committee, but Democrats are always proposing that we abolish the Electoral College. A classic case of a whiny two year-old when it doesn't get its way. The Electoral College has worked precisely as intended for the last 231 years, and it will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.

You don't want to talk history with me pal, check your own history since Eisenhower left office.
I shouldn't have to post it you and I know big mistakes were made by both political parties

I can understand why Trump is the Republican nominee , the Republican party is afraid of him I'm not.

After Nixon got elected what happened then or do you believe he was innocent of the " tapes what tapes" , or I am not a crook.
Good thing Ford pardoned him. about the only thing Ford did and that was questionable , although he was a bit clumsy.

You right wingers you are always cherry picking stuff even history.
I started questioning the Electoral college in 1968 .
I started questioning term limits in 2009 should have been sooner on that in my defence there were other things going on before that I thought more important.

A whiny 2 year old me???

See if these sound familiar.
All media is fake unless they say something good about Trump
All people that question Trump are out to get him.
The Democrats are out to get Trump.
The deep state is out to get Trump . I don't know what the Hell that is?
Anybody in his own party that questions his decision is out to get Trump.
For a real tough guy Trump sounds kinda skittish to me sounds like the boy has got thin skin he surrounds himself with family , friends and yes people he can't take much of a hit personally he might fall down.eace

 

[presluc]

I do not recall ever having the pleasure of having a discussion with you, presluc for you to level such an accusation at me. Is there another conservative user here with a similar handle and profile pic who you are confusing me with? A Lelis Feo perhaps?



Yes, they sound like straw man exaggerations of positions I have neither held nor arguments I have ever made.



When you see me make excuses for any dummies, please call me out then.

Well I've been off site for awhile. now I'm back

As far as accusation we can settle this with one question .
Are you a true conservative or are you a Trump follower?

If you are a conservative fine I can debate the issues with you and respect "not agree but respect your views"
I would prefer a real true conservative in the nature of Eisenhour but I'll take what I can get.

To say the Republican party has not made excuses for Trump would be a false statement would it not?
The Conservative party supports the Republican party does it not?

Yet , perhaps I'm wrong , I have been wrong before, perhaps you are one of those rare Conservatives that speak out against Trump.
I have yet to see you speaking out against Trump on this thread. now's your chance.
Question;has Trump lied since he's been in office.eace

 

[GreatNews2night]

Well I've been off site for awhile. now I'm back

As far as accusation we can settle this with one question .
Are you a true conservative or are you a Trump follower?

If you are a conservative fine I can debate the issues with you and respect "not agree but respect your views"
I would prefer a real true conservative in the nature of Eisenhour but I'll take what I can get.

To say the Republican party has not made excuses for Trump would be a false statement would it not?
The Conservative party supports the Republican party does it not?

Yet , perhaps I'm wrong , I have been wrong before, perhaps you are one of those rare Conservatives that speak out against Trump.
I have yet to see you speaking out against Trump on this thread. now's your chance.
Question;has Trump lied since he's been in office.eace

I know Felis Leo well. He is an intelligent and well-informed poster. Sure, he is conservative, but he is NOT a mindless Trumper. You can have good and civil conversations with him, and he makes good points even when I don't agree with him.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Sanders has absolutely no hope of ever obtaining the Democrat nomination. Everyone already knows this, except for the self-deluded Sanders supporters. It is no different than the Libertarian Ron Paul fanatics thinking Ron Paul had any hope of ever obtaining the Republican nomination in 2008. You have to be pretty damn self-deluded to think that someone who has never been a Democrat is going to somehow win the Democrat nomination.

The only reason Bernie is a democrat is he knows he cannot win as a Socialist/Independent. The democrats have seen that Bernie is in control of about 1/3 of the democrat potential voters. Without those votes the democrats cannot win the Presidential election. They need each other to win, but neither really want the other. Bernie is a Socialist and up until recently he has portrayed himseld as such. Bernie also knows that a Socialist will likely not win the election in America, so he calls himself a Democratic Socialist. Like many countries that use the terms, People's, Republic, Democratic, they are anything but.

 

[Linc]

CNN is pro-Biden.

FOX is pro-Sanders, with a town hall at 6:30 PM tonight in Michigan. Michigan just happens to have an OPEN primary, ripe for another gop operation chaos.

 

[bomberfox]

I empathize with you. I'm a parent of two children who belong to your age group. I know your generation is suffering. However, your generation simply doesn't have the votes yet, or doesn't even bother voting, to make of your aspirations, bills signed into law, and to elect the candidates you prefer. So, like I said, be content with at least kicking Trump out of the White House for now, voting for whoever is nominated by the Dems even if you don't like the person, survive to fight another day, and in the future, elect your progressive candidates and change the laws. For now, your best bet is to at leas minimize the damage to the Judiciary, by putting a Democrat in the White House. That's my best advice for your generation.

If you go Bernie or Bust and defect, then Trump will just continue to crush your generation for four more years, and who knows for how much longer if the next candidate is, say, Ivanka Trump. We need to get the Trump Crime Family out of the White House NOW before it is too late. This is more essential than getting to your revolution NOW. It would be could if you could implement it, but the sad reality is that you can not. You are still in the minority.

By the way, I voted for Bernie in my state's primary, but I no longer think that he is the best equipped one to beat Trump, that's why I'm now supporting Biden, not exactly because of his personal qualities, but because I think there is (small) chance that he can beat Trump, especially if you guys don't defect, while I think that sadly, Bernie will NOT defeat Trump.

Oh im definitely not going to pull a bernie or bust and its going to be critical to get those who defected last time to stay in. Im in the age group of old millennials born close to when poppy Bush was campaigning .

 

[bomberfox]

Well I've been off site for awhile. now I'm back

As far as accusation we can settle this with one question .
Are you a true conservative or are you a Trump follower?

If you are a conservative fine I can debate the issues with you and respect "not agree but respect your views"
I would prefer a real true conservative in the nature of Eisenhour but I'll take what I can get.

To say the Republican party has not made excuses for Trump would be a false statement would it not?
The Conservative party supports the Republican party does it not?

Yet , perhaps I'm wrong , I have been wrong before, perhaps you are one of those rare Conservatives that speak out against Trump.
I have yet to see you speaking out against Trump on this thread. now's your chance.
Question;has Trump lied since he's been in office.eace

Ummmm..... your first clue in should have been you were away, not seeing someone speak out during that time frame is really a dumb assessment for labeling someone...:

 

[Moderate Right]

Sanders has absolutely no hope of ever obtaining the Democrat nomination. Everyone already knows this, except for the self-deluded Sanders supporters. It is no different than the Libertarian Ron Paul fanatics thinking Ron Paul had any hope of ever obtaining the Republican nomination in 2008. You have to be pretty damn self-deluded to think that someone who has never been a Democrat is going to somehow win the Democrat nomination.

Some of the problem on both sides is these people have turnouts of 10,000 - 20,000 people on a regular basis and it gives them a false perspective of the reality that 10,000 people out of millions of voters doesn't really mean anything. I made a post the other day estimating that the Bernie supporters only make up about 33% of the Democratic party and only about 15% of the total electorate. While that can add up to about 20 million total voters, which seems like a lot, it is only 20 million out of the 136 million who voted in the 2016 election, or that 15%.

 

[Moderate Right]

It's really unlikely and only way Bernie is nominated is that Biden screw up massively in debates (dementia is showing too much). Democrats end up doing what they hate most, nominate Bernie as there isn't anyone else left.

Personally, I don't see Biden screw ups as helping Bernie much. It has gotten down to Trump's question, do you want socialism or not?

 

[danielpalos]

It seems I keep hearing that Presidential nominee Bernie Sanders is not quite in tune with the D.N.C. .
Now at first I thought it was just the moderates, but as time went on when Sanders was in the lead the discussion was which of these moderates do you pick to beat Sanders.
CNN , which is a news program that I watch from time to time even had the makings of a double standard.
It seems a Biden supporter miss spoke on an issue concerning Dr. King she apologized
Sanders said Biden should apologize .
The CNN anchor ask why should he apologize she merely supports Biden he had nothing to do with her response.
However, when some Bernie Bros got a little rough on line Sanders was ask to apologize.
Seems like a double standard to me.

As for going against the D.N.C. Perhaps a bit of history of the last Democrat to go against the D.N.C.'S wishes.

In 1964 President Lyndon Baines Johnson presented a bill called the Civil Rights Bill which included a no discrimination clause , a Senator Russell waned President Johnson if he passed this bill he could lose the support of the Democratic .party President Johnson's reply "IT WOULD BE WORTH IT"
In 1964 some how or another the bill was passed .and President Johnson on National T.V. signed it into law.
Unfortunately that good deed was overshadowed by President Johnson's mistake VIETNAM.

However it makes little difference to me I am an Independent voter one political party is just as bad or good as the next that's just labels.
However in today's venue sometimes it is difficult to see which party is for who
20 YRS America has been on the same economic system virtually the same healthcare , the same stagnant wage, the same tax cuts, pretty much the same budget cuts even after 8 yrs of a Democratic president and what does America have now , where is America today on the same old ,same old.???
The only significant change I see is more money went to the rich tax cuts.eace

The left should be able to work together better. It is about healthcare reform and infrastructure. It will take a working majority and Sanders could be well positioned to take the lead on that as VP and President of the Senate.

 

[Moderate Right]

The last time Democrats controlled the Congress and the White House, over twenty million Americans got health care, mostly paid for by taxes on the wealthy.

The last time Republicans controlled both, they came within one vote of stripping health care from over twenty million Americans, and passed a massive tax cut for the already rich.

There is a difference between the two parties.

The last time Democrats controlled the Congress and the White House, voters ushered out over 1000 Democrats in favor of Republicans over the next several years.

 

[jpn]

The last time Democrats controlled the Congress and the White House, voters ushered out over 1000 Democrats in favor of Republicans over the next several years.

And what did they accomplish? Slowed the recovery. Anything else?

 

[jpn]

Personally, I don't see Biden screw ups as helping Bernie much. It has gotten down to Trump's question, do you want socialism or not?

As for Trump, do you want fascism or not?

 

[danielpalos]

There is already a health crisis in progress; Biden for President and Sanders for VP and President of the Senate to move forward on healthcare reform and infrastructure.

 

[Moderate Right]

And what did they accomplish? Slowed the recovery. Anything else?

The last time Democrats controlled the Congress and the White House, voters ushered out over 1000 Democrats in favor of Republicans over the next several years. Apparently voters didn't like what the Democrats did.

 

[Moderate Right]

As for Trump, do you want fascism or not?

That's just totally a left wing bull**** lie. There is absolutely nothing Trump has done for the country that is Fascist and twisting his words doesn't count.

 

[jpn]

That's just totally a left wing bull**** lie. There is absolutely nothing Trump has done for the country that is Fascist and twisting his words doesn't count.

Same thing for the "socialism" canard. Socialism means centralized control of the state. No one, including Sanders, proposes that. So when you toss around the word, you're showing everyone how full of bull**** you are. Or maybe you just flunked Political Science 101. Assuming you went to college at all.

And actually, the Republicans far more closely resemble the first stirrings of Fascism than the Democrats do of Socialism. Wanting health insurance for everyone is not Socialist, unless you think every developed country on this earth, other than the US, is "socialist."

On the other hand, what are the hallmarks of Fascism?

According to the American Heritage Dictionary: 1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Violence? Check. Belligerent nationalism? Check. Racism? Check.

Let's add in delegitimizing the media when it says things you don't like while undermining the concept of "truth" with the equivalent of state-controlled media (you want bull**** lies? Turn on Fox "News"). Suppressing a full and honest vote by voter intimidation, gerrymandering and dishonest "voter ID" laws designed to reduce participation among political opponents. Letting the president break laws, lie about it, and then give him a pass assuring the nation that "he learned his lesson."

 

[Moderate Right]

Same thing for the "socialism" canard. Socialism means centralized control of the state. No one, including Sanders, proposes that. So when you toss around the word, you're showing everyone how full of bull**** you are. Or maybe you just flunked Political Science 101. Assuming you went to college at all.

And actually, the Republicans far more closely resemble the first stirrings of Fascism than the Democrats do of Socialism. Wanting health insurance for everyone is not Socialist, unless you think every developed country on this earth, other than the US, is "socialist."

On the other hand, what are the hallmarks of Fascism?

According to the American Heritage Dictionary: 1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Violence? Check. Belligerent nationalism? Check. Racism? Check.

Let's add in delegitimizing the media when it says things you don't like while undermining the concept of "truth" with the equivalent of state-controlled media (you want bull**** lies? Turn on Fox "News"). Suppressing a full and honest vote by voter intimidation, gerrymandering and dishonest "voter ID" laws designed to reduce participation among political opponents. Letting the president break laws, lie about it, and then give him a pass assuring the nation that "he learned his lesson."

Bernie calls himself a socialist. He says good things about Castro, honeymoons in Russia, and says he wants a revolution.

 

[Glitch]

Some of the problem on both sides is these people have turnouts of 10,000 - 20,000 people on a regular basis and it gives them a false perspective of the reality that 10,000 people out of millions of voters doesn't really mean anything. I made a post the other day estimating that the Bernie supporters only make up about 33% of the Democratic party and only about 15% of the total electorate. While that can add up to about 20 million total voters, which seems like a lot, it is only 20 million out of the 136 million who voted in the 2016 election, or that 15%.

The bigger question should be: Why are there Democrat supporters of Bernie Sanders when Bernie is not, and never has been, a Democrat? That would imply his Democrat supporters are complete morons. Then again, they are supporting an avowed anti-American socialist so that naturally makes them complete morons already.

 

[Moderate Right]

The bigger question should be: Why are there Democrat supporters of Bernie Sanders when Bernie is not, and never has been, a Democrat? That would imply his Democrat supporters are complete morons. Then again, they are supporting an avowed anti-American socialist so that naturally makes them complete morons already.

Well, to be fair, the same could be said for the Paul's and even Donald Trump. These people know they can't win as some other party so they run as either Democrats or Republicans, because they know they will get votes from Democrats and Republicans. You could easily argue that Trump is not a true Republican and that he hijacked the Republican party, just as Bernie, AOC, and the like are trying to hijack the Democratic party.