So, Sanders is going against the DNC , is that a bad thing or a good thing?

[presluc]

The last time Democrats controlled the Congress and the White House, over twenty million Americans got health care, mostly paid for by taxes on the wealthy.

The last time Republicans controlled both, they came within one vote of stripping health care from over twenty million Americans, and passed a massive tax cut for the already rich.

There is a difference between the two parties.

I know there is a difference between 2 parties .
However during the time of Obama's presidency" if that's what you're referring to" Obama did extend the tax cuts for the rich did he not. Obama did skip the cost of living wage on the SS checks for the elderly did he not?
No president since 2000 as even dared to speak out against the rich let alone challenge them.

The Obama care I'm familiar with came through insurance companies which meant unless you were on medicaid you had to pay not with a tax after tax . if not you were fined kinda like a seatbelt law saves the Insurance companies money , makes you a bit uncomfortable.
The rich might have thrown some crumbs from their tax cuts but not much.eace

 

[presluc]

Just like in 2016, the voters didn't allow Bernie to be their nominee.

we will see what the voters say.

I stand with Sanders , he as said if he's not the nominee he will support whoever that is.
If Sanders is not the nominee I will vote and support whoever is , If it is Biden I will support him ,God help us.eace

 

[presluc]

We get it. As a conservative, your goal is to foster discord among Democrats and get Bernie or Bust people to defect, thus contributing to the re-election of your cult leader. So, your fake concern for the DNC is noted, and dismissed.

And by the way, Bernie lost the 2016 nomination thanks to the will of the people, who voted for Hillary to the point that she earned 3.7 million more popular votes than Bernie, and earned a majority of pledged delegates, no superdelegates needed.

And no, I'm not a Hillary fan. I'm just stating a fact.

Thank you for this post saves me from telling right wingers to step off we are still united against Trumpeace

 

[presluc]

They seem to be, given that all the other important candidates dropped out and endorsed him. Most likely the party elders asked them to do so (which, rather than rigging, is just the normal political process). It seems like Dem voters and Deam-leaning voters think the same way, given that Biden so far has almost 900,000 more votes than Bernie.

Let us hope so.

Some say Sanders went to fatr ask for too much .
What he ask for , who was it for?
The American people is it not .
If I were Sanders when people said I Was Asking for too much I Would ask them point blank which of these policies you want me to tell the American people I have to drop because the Democratic party or another nominee said so.
So which group of Americans has to wait until next election to have their issues discussed?
The young , the old , the working class , the poor working class the teachers the college educated, the white , the black, the brown the SS receptens the Vets , Climate just to name a few.covered by Sanders.eace

 

[GreatNews2night]

Well, don't you see, that is because those 900,000 people were dupes, stooges or outright idiots. When Bernie wins, that is true democracy shining through. When Bernie Sanders loses, its because the people were cheated by the fat cats...because they let themselves be cheated...somehow.

Yep, if you listen to some Bernie fans, the voters who prefer another candidate are sheep, brainwashed, establishment hacks, or like you said outright idiots, a word that poster Craig here loves to use to refer to everybody who doesn't vote for Bernie. Great way to earn people's hearts and minds, right? They seem to think that if they keep offending all the other voters, somehow these people will see the light and vote for their candidate, when much more likely, people will be sick and tired of all the blame and the accusations, and will even more certainly vote for Bernie's opponent.

I keep thinking that the people who behave like this are immature millennials who are arrogant and don't have good social skills. Playing video games non-stop and interacting with "friends" via Facebook and WhatsApp is not very conducive of good social skills. They believe that boomers are idiots who know nothing. The funny part, though, is that they love to preach their revolution against the evil establishment, as long as it's not required of them to move their lazy bums away from the video games to actually go vote.

On Super Tuesday, it was shown in exit polls that the percentage of young voters aged 18 to 29 actually dramatically dropped as compared to 2016, and among those who did bother showing up to vote, while Bernie was still the preferred candidate for the majority of them, Bernie's percentage of support among that age group actually also dropped from the 2016 numbers. Their great revolution is actually shrinking.

They are great at arrogantly and contemptuously offending everybody else; not so good at voting.:lamo

 

[presluc]

Well, in that, he is copying our dear orange clown who sits there in the oval office and takes credit for everything good, and blames Obama for everything bad. One of these days Trump took credit for the "inauguration" of a factory that has existed for 4 years and started in Obama's term.

Man that's the truth .

There isTrump adressing the African American voters "VOTE FOR ME WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE"
I don't know job ,house, SS, food stamps, medicaid , self respect .eace

 

[GreatNews2night]

Let us hope so.

Some say Sanders went to fatr ask for too much .
What he ask for , who was it for?
The American people is it not .
If I were Sanders when people said I Was Asking for too much I Would ask them point blank which of these policies you want me to tell the American people I have to drop because the Democratic party or another nominee said so.
So which group of Americans has to wait until next election to have their issues discussed?
The young , the old , the working class , the poor working class the teachers the college educated, the white , the black, the brown the SS receptens the Vets , Climate just to name a few.covered by Sanders.eace

I believe that Sanders does care for the people and does want to implement social policies that will benefit the majority of working class Americans. I do think that Biden will probably just keep things the way they are, or at best, will get things to be back to the Obama years, such as beefing up the Affordable Care Act. The problem for me is electability. I think that Sanders alienates more voters than the ones he brings in, and he hasn't been great in increasing turnout, so he is less likely to beat Trump.

Yes, if Biden is the president, several classes of Americans you have mentioned will have to wait longer for social policies that are favorable to them. But at least, the string of conservative judicial nominees will stop. The Judiciary can be just as damaging or even more damaging to the aspirations of the people you've mentioned, than the occupant of the Oval Office.

If the courts are filled to the brink with conservative judges and justices, even if a progressive president wants to get a bill signed into law to, say, forgive student loans, the Judiciary can step in and strike down the law as unconstitutional. And while we can vote a president out of the White House or wait for the end of his term limit, and we can vote Congressmen out of Congress, we can't vote judges and justices out of their lifetime appointments that will last for a generation.

So, if Bernie is the nominee, sure, maybe he will try to do a bit more... although it's likely that he will not accomplish much, as he will be obstructed by Congress. But if Biden is the nominee, Bernie fans should join and vote for him even if they don't like him, because at least he will stop the conservative nominations for the Judiciary. The young voters who want those social policies would then survive to fight another day, and wait for a time when the country as a whole moves more to the left, because currently, it doesn't look like most voters are ready for Bernie's revolution, yet.

 

[presluc]

Well, don't you see, that is because those 900,000 people were dupes, stooges or outright idiots. When Bernie wins, that is true democracy shining through. When Bernie Sanders loses, its because the people were cheated by the fat cats...because they let themselves be cheated...somehow.

That's bold talk coming from a right winger, who actually supported this crap.

I did not break the law,no the witness can not testify, no the documents concerning this can not be released.
The Coronavirus virus outbreak is a hoax started by the Democratic party.
The Coronavirus has been contained.,
Do these sound familiar
When you get tired of making excuses for this dummy let me know we'll talk then.

 

[Mycroft]

We get it. As a conservative, your goal is to foster discord among Democrats and get Bernie or Bust people to defect, thus contributing to the re-election of your cult leader. So, your fake concern for the DNC is noted, and dismissed.

And by the way, Bernie lost the 2016 nomination thanks to the will of the people, who voted for Hillary to the point that she earned 3.7 million more popular votes than Bernie, and earned a majority of pledged delegates, no superdelegates needed.

And no, I'm not a Hillary fan. I'm just stating a fact.

As a conservative, I have no desire to "foster discord among Democrats". They manage all the discord they can handle among themselves. Also, I have no concern for the DNC. But I have to say...they sure do put on a good show.

In any case, none of that prevents me from seeing reality. It IS true that the DNC won't allow Bernie to be their nominee. And it IS true that they'll pay him for his database. (you KNOW he won't be giving those millions of names and emails to them for nothing)

 

[Mycroft]

I don't think that's for sale .
Next thing ya knowyou will accuse Sanders of being a right winger that's how they do business ain't it?eace

An email list? Not for sale? LOL!! You'd better believe it's for sale.

And I'll never accuse Sanders of being a right winger. A hypocritical socialist, yes, but not a right winger. Heck, how do you think he managed to become a millionaire? The only job he's ever had was being a politician, and that doesn't have a very good salary.

 

[GreatNews2night]

An email list? Not for sale? LOL!! You'd better believe it's for sale.

And I'll never accuse Sanders of being a right winger. A hypocritical socialist, yes, but not a right winger. Heck, how do you think he managed to become a millionaire? The only job he's ever had was being a politician, and that doesn't have a very good salary.

It's well known that he has been a middle class man for his entire life, and only late in life got a book contract that finally pushed him into millionaire territory. Still, his net worth is only $2 million, something that a lot of Americans who have worked steadily for 50 years have accomplished, just on sheer valuation of their real estate holdings.

If you compare that to Trump who got his billions out of a history of serial cheating and fraud (remember Trump University?), you'll see that "accusing" Sanders of being a millionaire is quite disingenuous.

Three houses, a book contract, 50 years of salaries from his side and his wife's side, and all that you accumulate is a net worth of 2 million, all things considered, most of it coming from valuation of his houses and book sales, and you think that this is the hallmark of a corrupt politician?

I don't know about you, but my net worth is way higher than Sanders, and I never earned a single dollar that wasn't from a honest source.

 

[presluc]

It has absolutely nothing to do with policy or ideology and everything to do with party membership. There will never be a day when any Independent candidate will ever become President. The ONLY Independent presidential candidate to ever receive an Electoral College vote was George Wallace in 1968. He was a life-long Democrat who ran against Humphrey. When Humphrey got the Democrat nomination Wallace became an Independent and split the Electoral College vote, taking 46 votes away from Humphrey and giving Nixon the majority.

Even among third parties an Electoral College vote is extremely rare. The last one was in 1972 for Libertarian presidential candidate John Hospers. It was a faithless elector who voted Libertarian the year the Libertarian Party was founded. John Hospers was not on any State ballot and received zero popular votes, but he did get 1 Electoral College vote in 1972.

The reality is that if you are not a member of the Republican or Democratic Party there is little to no hope of ever being elected President.

Ah George Wallace I remember him standing in the doorway shouting segregation now segregation forever he was a piece of work they say he had dealings with the clan

However the past is the past.
You can dwell there if you choose perhaps you can check the last real Conservative Dwight D Eisenhower
Why the Republican party didn't stick with his policies I'll never know .

So there is little hope that an Independent will ever become president.
To me that sounds an awful lot like an assumption.
You know what they say about people who assume they tend to make an a.. well you get the picture

So I guess the Republican party doesn't need the Independent vote huh?
That's cool you just start a blog saying Independent vote not needed or wanted by Trump

The Electoral college vote is on shaky ground there has been accusations of zoning and other bad issues concerning the Electoral College . by both political parties .eace

 

[GreatNews2night]

As a conservative, I have no desire to "foster discord among Democrats". They manage all the discord they can handle among themselves. Also, I have no concern for the DNC. But I have to say...they sure do put on a good show.

In any case, none of that prevents me from seeing reality. It IS true that the DNC won't allow Bernie to be their nominee. And it IS true that they'll pay him for his database. (you KNOW he won't be giving those millions of names and emails to them for nothing)

Bernie is a man of integrity. I'm sure that if he sees that his political career is over, he will be willing to donate his database to the party.

The "reality" you are saying is nothing more than political preferences and normal political process. Presidential races start with 16 to 24 candidates... some are better seen by the party than others... the list goes thinning and thinning due to non-viable candidates dropping out or being encouraged to drop out, and then there are endorsements, the race consolidates, and at the end there are one or two men standing, and one of them wins the nomination.

Politics is the art of compromise, alliances, coalitions, endorsements, preferences, and the earning and spending of political capital. The DNC encouraging (if they did; I do think it is likely that they did) other non-viable candidates to drop out and endorse a more viable and more preferred candidate, is nothing but normal politics.

Trying to make of it something nefarious, *is* trying to foster discord.

Remember, the GOP went through a very similar process in 2016... started with 16, then the race consolidated. At one point the GOP establishment didn't want Trump, there were the Never Trumpers there, but just, they missed their deadline for consolidations, waited too long to rally behind one of their preferred candidates, and Trump ran away with the nomination, acquiring an insurmountable delegate lead.

What is happening now, is that the DNC is simply being more competent than the GOP's Never Trumpers in their effort to rally behind a more preferred candidate.

Don't blame the DNC for, in this, simply being more competent than the GOP, which tried to stop Trump, but ended up selling its soul to the most corrupt and most incompetent president in American history.

 

[jpn]

I know there is a difference between 2 parties .
However during the time of Obama's presidency" if that's what you're referring to" Obama did extend the tax cuts for the rich did he not. Obama did skip the cost of living wage on the SS checks for the elderly did he not?
No president since 2000 as even dared to speak out against the rich let alone challenge them.

The Obama care I'm familiar with came through insurance companies which meant unless you were on medicaid you had to pay not with a tax after tax . if not you were fined kinda like a seatbelt law saves the Insurance companies money , makes you a bit uncomfortable.
The rich might have thrown some crumbs from their tax cuts but not much.eace

Ah, you're a purist. Nothing less than utter capitulation by the powerful will satisfy you. You're not interesting in half a loaf. If you can't cover everyone with health insurance, scorn and ridicule those that "only" delivered it to over 20 million people.

Behold everyone, the noble and pure champion of...noble and pure visions. How admirable.

 

[presluc]

I believe that Sanders does care for the people and does want to implement social policies that will benefit the majority of working class Americans. I do think that Biden will probably just keep things the way they are, or at best, will get things to be back to the Obama years, such as beefing up the Affordable Care Act. The problem for me is electability. I think that Sanders alienates more voters than the ones he brings in, and he hasn't been great in increasing turnout, so he is less likely to beat Trump.

Yes, if Biden is the president, several classes of Americans you have mentioned will have to wait longer for social policies that are favorable to them. But at least, the string of conservative judicial nominees will stop. The Judiciary can be just as damaging or even more damaging to the aspirations of the people you've mentioned, than the occupant of the Oval Office.

If the courts are filled to the brink with conservative judges and justices, even if a progressive president wants to get a bill signed into law to, say, forgive student loans, the Judiciary can step in and strike down the law as unconstitutional. And while we can vote a president out of the White House or wait for the end of his term limit, and we can vote Congressmen out of Congress, we can't vote judges and justices out of their lifetime appointments that will last for a generation.

So, if Bernie is the nominee, sure, maybe he will try to do a bit more... although it's likely that he will not accomplish much, as he will be obstructed by Congress. But if Biden is the nominee, Bernie fans should join and vote for him even if they don't like him, because at least he will stop the conservative nominations for the Judiciary. The young voters who want those social policies would then survive to fight another day, and wait for a time when the country as a whole moves more to the left, because currently, it doesn't look like most voters are ready for Bernie's revolution, yet.

I don't know about you but when selling your car you gonna go high you might not get what you ask for but somewhere in that range.
If you ask for little change that is what you will get little change.
The main reason I voted for Obama was this phrase "CHANGE YES WE CAN" I thought he was talking about big change a lot of people though that.
So what changed, Obama was cheered when he ask for change Sanders ask for big change and points out what it will be and everybody gets scared.
Do I think Sanders will deliver on all of his big changes, HELL NO.
Politics today is a river of Red Tape and a mountain of deals, plea deals contributions and money exchanging hands .
Do I think he would make a dent yes I do and sometimes a crack in the system that is known can be enough to start back to a nation of not just for the rich or poor old or young or any color or gender but for all Americans people by the people for the people.eace

 

[jpn]

Bernie is a man of integrity. I'm sure that if he sees that his political career is over, he will be willing to donate his database to the party.

I would LOVE to see Sanders in the White House. However, he's being kind of stupid right now. On ABC's "This Week" he said:

Well, one of the things that I was kind of not surprised by is the power of establishment to force Amy Klobuchar, who had worked so hard, Pete Buttigieg, who, you know, really worked extremely hard as well, out of the race.
What was very clear from the media narrative and what the establishment wanted was to make sure that people coalesced around [former vice president Joe] Biden and try to defeat me. So that’s not surprising.

As the conservative Never-Trumper Jennifer Rubin wrote:

This is bonkers. Other Democrats got out of the race because voters across the country did not vote for them.

Sanders sneers at them as if they are puppets on a string, yanked out of the race by nefarious forces. They actually looked at the facts, saw they could not win and decided Biden had a better chance to unify the country and beat Trump than did a self-proclaimed socialist who cannot resist the urge to pick fights with his own party.

Sanders needs to drop the whole "Look at me. I'm a Socialist" schtick. He's not a Socialist or anywhere near it, and he's intellectually sophisticated enough to know it. But it's his way of branding himself; of making him stand out from the crowd. As a national candidate, he needs to think about how to appeal to the moderate middle class, and he refuses to do that.

Pedaling his silly "it's not my fault I'm losing, the establishment is against me" whiny crap is harmful to the party that has to rescue the nation from Trump and his lickspittle, nihilistic Republicans.

 

[jpn]

If anyone thinks Trump and his goons aren't a clear and present danger to the nation, watch this 57-second interview via Twitter:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1236674396867170305

 

[presluc]

Ah, you're a purist. Nothing less than utter capitulation by the powerful will satisfy you. You're not interesting in half a loaf. If you can't cover everyone with health insurance, scorn and ridicule those that "only" delivered it to over 20 million people.

Behold everyone, the noble and pure champion of...noble and pure visions. How admirable.

I don't like debating Liberals we are too much alike but if you insist .
I thought Liberals was against the wealthy establishment are not Insurance companies part of that???

I am no purist , I'm independent.
Yes I am not satisfied with the current Healthcare system you keep bragging about the 20 million that got insurance through some kind of payment to insurance companies .what of those that didn't?

Why is America considered a Super power yet over half the developed countries across the globe have Universal Health care and America doesn't ???
What, is every country that has Universal Health care communist socialist government controlled ??
What is it about universal Healthcare that scares these political parties and their followers???

I'm very interested in half a loaf , I just want to know where the other half is going if it is going to the progress of America or to benefit education , or the working class or even the college grads, fine but if it's going to some millionaire or billionaire I'm gonna have questions .

Behold the new Democrat moderate , a lakey, flunkey for the rich
Keep trying you might become a right winger.eace

 

[bomberfox]

What i still dont get is those people who bitch about Bernie not being a democrat. Who the hell cares? People change parties all the ****in time. Yet there are still people that only vote for Biden because he is a democrat, like people get enraged over such tiny things.

 

[CaughtInThe]

or, you know, voters aren't voting for Bernie as much.

 

[jpn]

What i still dont get is those people who bitch about Bernie not being a democrat. Who the hell cares? People change parties all the ****in time. Yet there are still people that only vote for Biden because he is a democrat, like people get enraged over such tiny things.

He is a Democrat. He thinks and votes just like a Democrat. A liberal Democrat. But by insisting on calling himself a Socialist, he:

1) Opens himself to scary attack-ads by the right. And scary attack-ads by the right are effective to some people, believe it or not.
2) Turns off moderates who don't see this as just a case of "Hey, look at me! I'm a socialist! And you're all capitalist tools!"
3) Is being unnecessarily dishonest.

As long as he's a Senator from a small state, no worries. Call himself whatever he wants. Commie, Socialist, whatever. But when the nation's future is at stake, come on. Be honest.

 

[presluc]

What i still dont get is those people who bitch about Bernie not being a democrat. Who the hell cares? People change parties all the ****in time. Yet there are still people that only vote for Biden because he is a democrat, like people get enraged over such tiny things.

I think there is something to be said for that , when you have the time look up how many Independents left the Trump base.
Check upon how many voters have switched from a political party to Independent Iwas one of those myself from a die hard Democrat to an Independent
We could use some good Liberals but no moderates please. loleaceeace

 

[bomberfox]

That's bold talk coming from a right winger, who actually supported this crap.

I did not break the law,no the witness can not testify, no the documents concerning this can not be released.
The Coronavirus virus outbreak is a hoax started by the Democratic party.
The Coronavirus has been contained.,
Do these sound familiar
When you get tired of making excuses for this dummy let me know we'll talk then.

Felis isnt a trumpist.

 

[bomberfox]

Why would anyone be stupid enough to hope a non-Democrat would win the Democrat nomination? Do they also hope that Hillary will become the Republican nominee? Because that is as stupid as hoping Sanders will become the Democrat nominee. It is beyond ridiculous and bordering on insanity to think someone who has never been a member of a political party is going to become that party's nominee.

Twump hasnt been a republican politician til he ran :lamo

 

[bomberfox]

I believe that Sanders does care for the people and does want to implement social policies that will benefit the majority of working class Americans. I do think that Biden will probably just keep things the way they are, or at best, will get things to be back to the Obama years, such as beefing up the Affordable Care Act. The problem for me is electability. I think that Sanders alienates more voters than the ones he brings in, and he hasn't been great in increasing turnout, so he is less likely to beat Trump.

Yes, if Biden is the president, several classes of Americans you have mentioned will have to wait longer for social policies that are favorable to them. But at least, the string of conservative judicial nominees will stop. The Judiciary can be just as damaging or even more damaging to the aspirations of the people you've mentioned, than the occupant of the Oval Office.

If the courts are filled to the brink with conservative judges and justices, even if a progressive president wants to get a bill signed into law to, say, forgive student loans, the Judiciary can step in and strike down the law as unconstitutional. And while we can vote a president out of the White House or wait for the end of his term limit, and we can vote Congressmen out of Congress, we can't vote judges and justices out of their lifetime appointments that will last for a generation.

So, if Bernie is the nominee, sure, maybe he will try to do a bit more... although it's likely that he will not accomplish much, as he will be obstructed by Congress. But if Biden is the nominee, Bernie fans should join and vote for him even if they don't like him, because at least he will stop the conservative nominations for the Judiciary. The young voters who want those social policies would then survive to fight another day, and wait for a time when the country as a whole moves more to the left, because currently, it doesn't look like most voters are ready for Bernie's revolution, yet.

The strategic game Biden will be much better, though the reason people want radical change is because we have witnessed such a horrible breakdown that its going to take radical positive change to keep this country from descending into this again. Returning to the before twump status quo will leave us totally vulnerable to another one who will have even greater powers than twump. As for the boomer generation, i can see why millenials are upset. The boomers benefitted from massive changes the greatest generation made only to nearly completely remove them which put my generation in such deep ****. While we can chat about video games and all, the opportunities that were afforded to the white boomers are too expensive and out of reach for my generation. I got people from that generation telling me they are glad my generation doesnt have a voice, that lauds their sheer numerical advantage over my generation. When i tell those people how sickening such attitude is, they just shrug.

While Biden may stave off total disaster, America is done for if we dont make even some of the major changes that will be needed.