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So much for overturning Roe v Wade and saving innocent pre-born babies.

I'm pretty sure this is not working as planned. I believe the right wing Christian anti-abortion advocates said abortion would go down once it was banned.
It's not a miracle clue - but there have been some successes and movement in the right direction. And, yes, there ARE hard corps zealots that will stop and nothing but blanket free abortion in every corner of the country.
 
That didn’t happen in Romania, what happened in Romania was massive state orphanages
Forcing girls and women to give birth to children they do not want or cannot support doesn't sound like a particularly good idea - especially for the forced-birth children.

Moreover, don't taxpayers ("the state") end up being on the hook for trying to care for the children? Or are the children not given requisite/adequate care? If so, that HAS to be detrimental to society and to "the state".
 
Interesting. So MORE women were allowed to "exercise reproductive freedom" after Roe was overturned? Was that your prediction, @weaver2?
I said that illegal abortions would eventually become an organized underground business and abortions would stay the same. I'm guessing that there is now developing an illegal distribution of chemical abortion pills which is increasing in abortion banning states that is fueling the rise. What I never thought would be remotely possible was that states like Texas would not allow abortions for pregnancies that had become medical necessities.

One of the situations fueling a rise in abortions is probably the exodus of many medical professionals from the states with extreme anti-abortion laws. Women may have decided to end a pregnancy if there are no or so few OBGYNs that she has to travel long distances for medical services.
 
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Forcing girls and women to give birth to children they do not want or cannot support doesn't sound like a particularly good idea - especially for the forced-birth children.
Birth is not “forced” it’s a natural process like breathing or using the restroom
Moreover, don't taxpayers ("the state") end up being on the hook for trying to care for the children? Or are the children not given requisite/adequate care? If so, that HAS to be detrimental to society and to "the state".
I have no problem with taxes being used to care for children. If my taxes were actually used to care for orphans i would take a tax raise
 
Birth is not “forced” it’s a natural process like breathing or using the restroom

I have no problem with taxes being used to care for children. If my taxes were actually used to care for orphans i would take a tax raise
Yes, birth is "forced" when a girl or woman is denied an abortion.

So, you will support increases in Federal and state taxes to provide support for children and mothers?
 
We have more then enough wealth (and lots of welfare programs already in this country for mothers and children)
We do not have adequate services for the 75% of women seeking abortions who are poor, low wage workers or very close to poverty, especially in conservative states.

Plus there is a huge demand for babies for adoption.
Only 4% of babies resulting from unplanned or unwanted pregnancies are adopted. Adoption, for many biological reasons is a cruel and medically irresponsible solution to unplanned pregnancies.
There is no such thing as an unwanted baby in America, babies are in such high demand people will use test tube frankenscience to get pregnant or go to foreign baby trafficker… I mean international adoption agencies to get one
There are 400,000 of them in the US alone. Only 2 to 4% of adults in the US adopt children.
In fact restricting abortion never leads to an increase in abortions.
It just did
Texas has had more births by a lot since R v W was overturned.
Counting the increase in births in Texas has no relevance to anything other than young people are moving into Texas an increasing rate.
 
It's not a miracle clue - but there have been some successes and movement in the right direction. And, yes, there ARE hard corps zealots that will stop and nothing but blanket free abortion in every corner of the country.

That "blanket free abortion" does exist in several states. And all of Canada.

And healthy women do not abort healthy viable (~24 weeks) fetuses. Not in any of those states or Canada. The laws arent needed, there are many reasons why women do not abort such fetuses.

If you disagree, produce some data that shows women do.
 
It's not a miracle clue - but there have been some successes and movement in the right direction. And, yes, there ARE hard corps zealots that will stop and nothing but blanket free abortion in every corner of the country.
Who would those "zealots" be? There's simply no good reason to restrict abortion.
 
Who would those "zealots" be? There's simply no good reason to restrict abortion.
Never mind - doesn't sound discussing the issue with you would be productive.
 
Never mind - doesn't sound discussing the issue with you would be productive.
Sounds like you have no discussion to make, much less explain any rational and legal reason to restrict abortion.
 
Sounds like you have no discussion to make, much less explain any rational and legal reason to restrict abortion.
Think whatever you want - just understand I'm not responding further.
 
Seems like both sides spent billions for and against it.

In fact, one could argue that seeing as how abortions have increased, the billions spent defending Roe were wasted and could have been put to better use. It was a hill the left did not need to die on.
The application of the 14th Amendment to women as persons with a liberty right broad enough to encompass abortion was what these billions were spent defending. That wasn't a mere right to abortion. It was a Supreme Court statement that the personal right to liberty, just as the personal rights to life and property, made women virtually if not quite actually equal. For that, people would give their lives. It's worth more than any child born since Jesus Christ if you're a woman. It changed not only the US, but the entire world. And the left didn't die on that hill, and there now going to have to keep going till the entire Conservative movement is destroyed forever, even if it takes 50 more years.
 
Birth is not “forced” it’s a natural process like breathing or using the restroom

I have no problem with taxes being used to care for children. If my taxes were actually used to care for orphans i would take a tax raise
Fight for that. Vote for candidates that will champion that.
 
Same as the money spent overturning it.

Political campaigns, getting candidates elected, that sort of stuff.
Please add contributions to NARAL and NOW, support for Women on Waves, rebuilding the underground abortion network, founding and supporting groups that provide help with financing an abortion for women in economic need, etc.
 
Why would abortions be increasing? Only if more reckless behavior is taking place. If you don't want a baby, take the proper prevention to keep it from happening. The left never seems to want to educate people how to prevent unwanted results from their behavior. Let's see kill a baby, keep you pants on. Oh heck, kill the baby.
This is untrue. The left has been far more active in sex education and promulgation of contraception and education in its correct use than the right has. Numerous right wing anti-abortion forces are anti-contraception.

Didn't you catch that drift from Clarence Thomas's statements in support of Dobbs? He thinks Griswold should be revisited - he doesn't want people to have contraception, because he's a conservative Catholic.
 
but not a massive increase in abortion. The real problem in Romania was the fact it was a communist regime. We have more then enough wealth (and lots of welfare programs already in this country for mothers and children) that abandonment would only be considered by psychopaths,

Plus there is a huge demand for babies for adoption. There is no such thing as an unwanted baby in America, babies are in such high demand people will use test tube frankenscience to get pregnant or go to foreign baby trafficker… I mean international adoption agencies to get one

In fact restricting abortion never leads to an increase in abortions. Texas has had more births by a lot since R v W was overturned.
This is completely untrue. Just as Texas has had more births, so pro-choice states have had more abortions. That's because some women from Texas went and got abortions there but others stayed in Texas and continued their pregnancies to term.

Meanwhile, however, there were both more births overall and more women who got abortions. Logically, that means more women got pregnant. Some, like the Texas women who didn't leave their anti-choice state, ended up giving birth. But others got abortions for some reason. A logical one is that they were less willing to risk giving birth under the circumstance of anti-choice legal successes.
 
Birth is not “forced” it’s a natural process like breathing or using the restroom

I have no problem with taxes being used to care for children. If my taxes were actually used to care for orphans i would take a tax raise

Actually, the post you're answering used the common expression "forced birth" to mean forced continued pregnancy to term, i.e., making a situation in which women cannot get medical abortions, not even mifepristone and misoprostol to do their own. Pregnancy is an unnatural state, in as much as embryo implantation shuts down the functioning of part of a woman's immune system, making her more liable to various diseases. Hence, birth is inherently unnatural. Human pregnancy and birth come from human sexual intercourse, which is never natural because it depends on at least one person choosing to engage in sex. They can't happen by pure accident.

But the problem is that "forced birth" has another meaning, too, and that is medically induced birth. It happens against nature because nature would otherwise so frequently kill or maim pregnant women. Figures that only a man would be ignorant of that.
 
Roe v Wade was a bad ruling for anybody's philosophy.
The restrictions in RvW were abandoned over which I think was it's downfall.
 
Roe v Wade was a bad ruling for anybody's philosophy.
The restrictions in RvW were abandoned over which I think was it's downfall.
Don't try to tell us something that simply isn't so. Conservative states started putting restrictions on abortion just as soon as they got organized in 1979. By the time the SC overturned Roe conservative states had for all practical purposes banned abortion. Several states had only one clinic for the entire state. Who told you that restriction in Roe were abandon? Give us a link.
 
Don't try to tell us something that simply isn't so. Conservative states started putting restrictions on abortion just as soon as they got organized in 1979. By the time the SC overturned Roe conservative states had for all practical purposes banned abortion. Several states had only one clinic for the entire state. Who told you that restriction in Roe were abandon? Give us a link.
Who's us?
The 24 to 28 week window for viability
 
Ask a neonate specialist about viability before you start slinging crap.
One of my daughters is an OBGYN the other is a respiratory therapist neonatal.

I'm not arguing whether abortion is correct or not. Roe v Wade was a poor ruling no matter who you are. There's been decades of time to refine the law.
 
One of my daughters is an OBGYN the other is a respiratory therapist neonatal.
Great, ask them to produce the statistics on survival of preemies as whole and functioning babies or if you are reluctant to post the truth I'll post it for you.
 
Who's us?
The 24 to 28 week window for viability

That was an option states could choose. Several states did/do not have any such restrictions. And just like in the other states, healthy women didnt/dont abortion healthy, viable fetuses. The entire country Canada also has no such restrictions...and no such abortions.

So what's the problem?
 
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