So how did he get in? Are all the security measures worthless?

[Lursa]

I checked and confirmed what I'd heard before, that at Sandy Hook, Adam Lanza "shot out a glass panel next to the locked front doors".


GLASS? What the **** is the point of having the doors locked if there's an acre of GLASS to break?

I assumed all that stuff at the front of the school that looks like glass is Lexan. You aren't going to shoot Lexan out, not if its any thickness. You could put holes in it but it won't shatter, from my experience with it.


GLASS, of all things...

Apparently Newtown had no cops on site, no "resource officers" at the place... the cops didn't enter the building until after the last shot was fired. Useless... you can't stop a shooter unless you have armed responders on hand or very close by.

It's bad enough that some have started shooting while students are outside on the grounds but yes...I was thinking the same...i know there are some schools with metal detectors and everything.

if this is what it takes to keep kids in school safe, then this is one true action we can take while trying to become mind-readers and identify these POS loser killers.

And I personally think that the parents should pay for it but that wont happen so I guess I'll get stuck with that bill too. But I'm not producing the little ****s that are antagonizing these losers or the losers themselves so it really does suck.

 

[Lursa]

Blaming schools is pretty much what we should expect from the gun crowd here at DP.
What do you expect from the 'bump stocks are our 2nd amendment right' folks?
You won't see any of these people signing up to be the secretary that dies first after she lets them in, legally.

Today we saw my greatest fear realized, similar to shooters waiting for students when they exit a building when school lets out. We have a half dozen exits at our HS, impossible to cover them all.

I didn't know about this massacre with WMDs, weapons of massacre and death, until after I went in to help teach today. I went to my car before wrestling practice, listened to the news, and could only think of my reaction to Sandy Hook, my birthday.

We currently have a few students on expulsion for bringing guns to school.
One mistake by our beloved secretary is all it would take.

Who's going to pay for the next round of security measures, such as metal detectors sweeping our sports events?
Certainly not the extreme wing of the NRA which controls the GOP.
How many mentally unstable students will now copycat pulling alarms around our Nation?
Who could argue with a student who is afraid to walk out of the school ???

One was stopped today, here in the Seattle area. Not saying he was mentally ill but then, I dont believe all these losers are mentally ill. Some yes, but not all.

Today, a grandmother turned in her 18 yr old grandson after finding a rifle and then reading his journal. She turned over the grandson and the journal to the authorities. And this kid was serious. Exerpts from his journal here, post 272.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...g-live-updates-w-149-a-28.html#post1068176595

 

[Lursa]

If I remember correctly you live in rather small community with a near-zero crime rate.

That's lovely, but most of us don't.

You know, that really doesnt matter anymore. Look at that teeny community in Texas where that POS blew away almost everybody in their church?

And there was one ****wad a few yrs ago that grabbed 5 Amish girls at school and killed them all. How big a ****ing loser do you have to be to do that?

I'm not sure community size or crime rate matters. It matters where the perpetrators are.

 

[Lursa]

You're right, I do, but I moved here from a city with a national reputation for crime- Surrey, BC. And there's no armed security in Surrey schools. I doubt there is anywhere in Canada, though I can only speak about the Vancouver area.
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin' it's too bad it got to this.

Surrey is bad, really? I used to love going up for the Cloverdale Rodeo. Most of our events have moved out to Chilliwack now.

 

[Goshin]

You know, that really doesnt matter anymore. Look at that teeny community in Texas where that POS blew away almost everybody in their church?

And there was one ****wad a few yrs ago that grabbed 5 Amish girls at school and killed them all. How big a ****ing loser do you have to be to do that?

Yeah, bad stuff.

I have a close relative who is an usher at his church. He's never owned a gun in 60 years, didn't like them, didn't want one. Recently he bought one to carry at church, at the pastor's request that ushers go armed after that TX church shooting, and asked me to get him trained up. Surprised me, but his grandchildren go there and he wants to be able to protect them.

 

[Lursa]

Cruz didn't need to register a private sale, didn't need a license to carry, and broke no Florida gun laws till he started shooting. There's a starting point.

And why would he have? What would you change in those laws and guidelines that would have excluded him?

 

[Lursa]

There are always warning signs, people tent to ignore them, much the same people ignore the signs of suicidal people. People who are suicidal semi fit into the mass shooter category as both groups are troubled, however the much larger group usually takes their own lives while the latter tries to take other lives with them, but often the symptoms are the same.

Most of those symptoms are reclusiveness, depression, and fear, they are not exclusive to any group however when they become together they can point to a direction, and often the people troubled have problems and are unable to express themselves yet seek aknowledgement from those around them, in many cases no one even gives a darn or mentions it except in private until xyz hangs themself or syz shoots up a place, then suddenly it becomes oh yeah there were signs, but pffft I would have to put my iphone down for 5 seconds to adress that.

And filed police reports on animal abuse, domestic abuse, assault, etc.

Not to mention that most of these guys dont seem to hesitate to post their **** all over social media.

I realize that parents want to deny seeing any bad in their kids but we need to make these people...family and friends...more aware and support them coming forward with concerns.

 

[Perotista]

QFT cuz I couldn't Like it twice.



We're a mess. Murder starts in the heart, long before it ever reaches the trigger finger.


We had plenty of guns available back-when... but we also had something that kept us from using them, that has gone missing somehow.

Yes, guns were all over the place. I don't know of a relative or any neighbors who didn't own some. Yet we all knew not to go around killing others. The problem is society as a whole has fallen off the cliff and no one is interested in finding out why. They want to paper over all the ills with something called gun control.

Even if successful, banning or taking all guns away from everyone. Society will still be as sick as it is today if not more so. Unless folks delve deep into our society to find the root cause for all this bloodshed, it will continue. No doubt about that. It will also get worse.

Anyway, wife is telling me to get to bed. So have a nice night. Let's face it, gun control or no gun control, our society is kaput. terminally ill and no one cares.

 

[Utility Man]

Land of the free........

:coffeepap

 

[Lursa]

Yeah, bad stuff.

I have a close relative who is an usher at his church. He's never owned a gun in 60 years, didn't like them, didn't want one. Recently he bought one to carry at church, at the pastor's request that ushers go armed after that TX church shooting, and asked me to get him trained up. Surprised me, but his grandchildren go there and he wants to be able to protect them.

God bless him in his decision but carrying also requires a well thought-out commitment to doing what needs to be done.

I cant preach on that, since I've never been tested, but I do believe it.

 

[Lursa]

Land of the free........

:coffeepap

Hey, we can allow the minors to grow up and enjoy the freedoms that their elders are protecting. Minors dont have full rights on school grounds anyway. But screw restricting the rights of the rest of us when we can harden the security on schools and continue researching how these loser POS shooters are being created and how to identify them.

 

[Goshin]

God bless him in his decision but carrying also requires a well thought-out commitment to doing what needs to be done.

I cant preach on that, since I've never been tested, but I do believe it.

He is a very serious-minded man who does nothing without careful consideration. I'm sure he's mentally prepared himself. He also had enough sense to know that he needed someone to teach him how to use it effectively.

I was just surprised that after all this time he'd changed his mind on having a gun. He used to be rather vehemently opposed.... but he loves those grandchildren and couldn't bear not to do all in his power in their defense.

 

[Grand Mal]

Surrey is bad, really? I used to love going up for the Cloverdale Rodeo. Most of our events have moved out to Chilliwack now.

It is by local standards. Has a reputation across the country. I was once playing chess online with someone in NYC, with a small chat window in the corner. He asked where I was and he'd heard of Surrey.

 

[nota bene]

Well see that surprises me. I figured if my little podunk town had all this security, that probably most schools did.


Apparently it isn't so. Maybe it should be.

I had Laura Ingraham's TV show on in another room by but walked by twice during her hour, and the second time heard Mark Fuhrman saying something about creating a whole new law enforcement career path in school security.

 

[Lursa]

I had Laura Ingraham's TV show on in another room by but walked by twice during her hour, and the second time heard Mark Fuhrman saying something about creating a whole new law enforcement career path in school security.

If such a career is developed, I hope that it is very well educated in psychology and that the position is very pro-active rather than reactive.

Unfortunately, that would indicate a decent salary....

 

[nota bene]

If such a career is developed, I hope that it is very well educated in psychology and that the position is very pro-active rather than reactive.

Unfortunately, that would indicate a decent salary....

I don't know about the qualifications in most school districts for on-campus counselors, but my kids' elementary school had one with a Ph.D. in psychology, and she was brilliant. Sadly, I had to work extensively with her, but I was very impressed.

I heard one comment this evening that suggested the high school kids and/or their teachers had had some sort of training perhaps in anticipation of any event like this, and I thought immediately of the "Run, Hide, Fight" videos first developed by the Houston Police Department. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...08/the-truth-behind-the-run-hide-fight-debate

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Here is the shooter.

 

[Lovebug]

After I posted my reply to you, I was sitting here thinking. What the heck has happened to our society that cops and security protection in schools is needed these days? I remember growing up and in High School if some of us kids wanted to go hunting after school, we'd bring our .410's to school with us. Ride the bus and the whole nine yards. No one thought a thing about that. Heck, the teachers left their rifles and shotguns in racks in the back window of their pickups and never bothered to lock them. No one would ever dream about messing with the teachers cars. Of course this was back in the late 50's early 60's in an old country school.

So I repeat, what the heck has happened to our society? Has our society advanced to a point where we need to lock our school kids in with cops around to protect them? Is that societal advancement?

It seems that society has changed, not the guns. Your question

what the heck has happened to our society?

seems to be ignored in all these massacre discussions. What has happened to us, to our kids, to the people around us, that makes them pick up a gun, a weapon?
We may be able to ease the symptoms by removing accessibility to guns, but we shoudn't forget to diagnose the disease.

 

[Lovebug]

It's the meth. All the labs are out in the country, and with the labs come pushers and new users... who soon start stealing to support their habit, and their judgement goes kablooie, next thing you know people are getting shot every other week.

Sucks. Not sure it is something we can get away from... seems to be spreading like wildfire.

Drugs, meth or other, along with a good dose of hopelessness and loneliness, does a lot to the mind of a person.

 

[Lovebug]

If the teachers were armed then they might of had a chance. No person being shot at ever said "I'm sure glad I'm not armed right now."

It might help during the actual attack, but it still doesn't go down to the heart of the problem. We have to find a way to prevent this from happening in the first place.
What if...we take away guns? A click on google probably offers more than one way to off a bunch of people.

 

[Lovebug]

And filed police reports on animal abuse, domestic abuse, assault, etc.

Not to mention that most of these guys dont seem to hesitate to post their **** all over social media.

I realize that parents want to deny seeing any bad in their kids but we need to make these people...family and friends...more aware and support them coming forward with concerns.

To think that game wardens go after poachers when they post their kill on facebook. Yet this stuff ?

 

[Lovebug]

God bless him in his decision but carrying also requires a well thought-out commitment to doing what needs to be done.

I cant preach on that, since I've never been tested, but I do believe it.

That's why I don't carry. Got the permit, know what to do, but the thought of shooting another human being...
It is probable how most legal gun owners think, hoping to never be in a situation that necessitates using a gun on another person. It is the foul apples who won't hesitate. It is those who will buy a weapon in some back alley who don't care.

 

[holbritter]

After I posted my reply to you, I was sitting here thinking. What the heck has happened to our society that cops and security protection in schools is needed these days? I remember growing up and in High School if some of us kids wanted to go hunting after school, we'd bring our .410's to school with us. Ride the bus and the whole nine yards. No one thought a thing about that. Heck, the teachers left their rifles and shotguns in racks in the back window of their pickups and never bothered to lock them. No one would ever dream about messing with the teachers cars. Of course this was back in the late 50's early 60's in an old country school.

So I repeat, what the heck has happened to our society? Has our society advanced to a point where we need to lock our school kids in with cops around to protect them? Is that societal advancement?

That just proves to me it isn't about the guns, but about society. We have the most violent movies, shows and video games ever. Kids have grown immune to it. What do people think will happen when killing people is 'game' and the most realistic game is the best? Kids used to respect school officials, adults in general and law enforcement. Now? Not so much.
Is it the parents? Or has society even tied the parents hands too much that punishment for bad behavior is now a 10 minute time out? Anything more is child abuse.

And no, I don't mean beating your kids, so don't even go there.

 

[tres borrachos]

I checked and confirmed what I'd heard before, that at Sandy Hook, Adam Lanza "shot out a glass panel next to the locked front doors".


GLASS? What the **** is the point of having the doors locked if there's an acre of GLASS to break?

I assumed all that stuff at the front of the school that looks like glass is Lexan. You aren't going to shoot Lexan out, not if its any thickness. You could put holes in it but it won't shatter, from my experience with it.


GLASS, of all things...

Apparently Newtown had no cops on site, no "resource officers" at the place... the cops didn't enter the building until after the last shot was fired. Useless... you can't stop a shooter unless you have armed responders on hand or very close by.

Yes, glass. It was an upper middle class town grammar school. Glass is the norm. People didn't move to Newtown to have their kids attend grammar school in a building that resembled a bunker. They could move 90 minutes south to the Bronx for that.

My husband and I almost bought a house that would have put us in the Sandy Hook school district. To this day we're glad he ended up transferred to NH instead.

We have a school resource officer in our high school. The high school is three storeys. You have to be buzzed in to the building. Let's say a kid on the third floor started shooting. The officer is on the first floor. How many kids will die before he makes it up 2 flights of stairs and over to the other side of the building?

School resource officers are a great idea, but really wouldn't solve a thing. Close by is a relative term. It doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Perotista]

It seems that society has changed, not the guns. Your question seems to be ignored in all these massacre discussions. What has happened to us, to our kids, to the people around us, that makes them pick up a gun, a weapon?
We may be able to ease the symptoms by removing accessibility to guns, but we shoudn't forget to diagnose the disease.

Exactly. Gun control is like treating a patient who has brain cancer for a fever by giving the patient aspirin. Treating the symptom, but not the cause. Perhaps those who advocate gun control, treating the symptom don't really want to know the cause. The cause will still be there, unabetted, in full bloom even after gun control or giving the patient aspirin.